• [6.6.7] No login screen / Secure Boot Fails


    SonWon
    • Minor

    No plugins installed.

     

    While looking for an option to force menu resolution to 1920x1080 in syslinux configuration I discovered Uraid was booting legacy mode.  I had to turn off Secure Boot in the UEFI BIOS options to get Uraid to boot UEFI.  When I did this Uraid booted 1920x1080 however when you log into Unraid gui it reverts back to 1024x768.  Something isn't right with Unraid or the configuration.  I am using version 6.6.6.  Please help.

     

    The way I see it there are two bugs maybe one:

     

    1) Unraid gui defaulting to 1024x768.  This defeats my whole plan to use Unraid.

     

    2) Unraid will not boot UEFI with Secure Boot enabled.  Although this could possibly be something in the BIOS settings but it appears to be a bug?  This defeats the only reason I wanted to use UEFI and makes the system less secure.

     

    The resolution issue makes Unraid unusable for me.

     

    tower-diagnostics-20190225-1046.zip




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    I discovered the 'Compatibility Support Module' in the BIOS needs to be turned off.  Now it boots in 1920x1080 however the screen is blank with a flashing cursor in the top left corner.  I've attached another Diagnostic file.

     

    This problem was originally reported here and here.

     

    tower-diagnostics-20190225-1504.zip

    Edited by SonWon
    Added two links
    Link to comment

    I suppose you are talking about a locally attached monitor here.

    I understand this is inconvenient, but this is not a "urgent" priority. Please change to "Minor".

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    2 minutes ago, bonienl said:

    I suppose you are talking about a locally attached monitor here.

    I understand this is inconvenient, but this is not a "urgent" priority. Please change to "Minor".

    It does make the system unusable for users that only have a single system so in that case I think it would be urgent.  However, I have complied with your request.

     

    Also, not being able to use Secure boot is a security issue and an attack victor for UEFI root viruses.

    Link to comment

    A none working local monitor is commonly caused by BIOS and/or motherboard settings/capabilities. This is something you'll need to work out. Perhaps explaining the make and model of your motherboard in the other thread you've started may get response from users using the same hardware.

     

    The success of using secure boot is again very much BIOS related. Different implementations exist.

    Personally I am not convinced this poses a security threat with Unraid.

    Link to comment
    1 hour ago, bonienl said:

    A none working local monitor is commonly caused by BIOS and/or motherboard settings/capabilities. This is something you'll need to work out. Perhaps explaining the make and model of your motherboard in the other thread you've started may get response from users using the same hardware.

     

    The success of using secure boot is again very much BIOS related. Different implementations exist.

    Personally I am not convinced this poses a security threat with Unraid.

     

    The monitor works fine, tested with other software.  The problem is Unraid is not initializing the gui.

     

    Asrock X470 Taichi motherboard

    Gigabyte GeForce GT 1030 2G display

    ViewSonic XG2401 monitor

     

    Some guidance from Lime with UEFI Secure boot would be nice.  I am not convinced either way that is a motherboard or an Unraid problem so how do I diagnostic the problem?

     

    The missing gui is in my opinion an Unraid problem since other software boots fine.

     

    Link to comment

    Short question, why you wanna use the Unraid Gui at all? Use the webui like everyone else. The GUI isn't really for day to day use. See it as more like a fallback option if you have no network for example. I remember someone in the forum posted something about his dad has some issues with the Unraid GUI browsing the web. A horrible idea to use the Unraid GUI as a daily driver. 

    Edited by bastl
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    I am NOT using the Unraid gui as a daily driver or to browse the web!

     

    Usage case, I plan to boot into Unraid gui, start one to three VMs, two Linux VMs running on the GeForce GT 1030 and one Gaming VM running on a RX590 using PCIe pass through.  I was hoping to use Unraid to manage the VMs and storage needs.

     

    If Unraid isn't design to run in a gui then that option should be removed and I can move on.

     

    I just want to manage the VMs from Unraid and use the VMs.  I don't need two computers for that if I did then for me there would be no point to Unraid.

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    Set the VMs to Autostart or at least the one you have a GPU passthrough and use that to access the webui. You can also access the webui via a phone or a tablet to start and stop your VMs if you wanna do it manual all the time. Or another option is to use the ControlR app on your phone to start stop dockers or VMs. 

     

     

     

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    I wouldn't trust a Win 10 pass through VM as my daily interface manager nor should anyone else.  This defeats the purpose of Unraid, no sale if that is how it works.

    Link to comment

    Use one of your "two Linux VMs running on the GeForce GT 1030" instead.

     

    Edit:

     

    You can also use a SSH connection to the server to control your VMs if you like and in case you don't trust any HTTPS traffic to your server. 

    Edited by bastl
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    1 hour ago, SonWon said:

    The monitor works fine, tested with other software.  The problem is Unraid is not initializing the gui.

    Are you saying you get the selection menu to choose how to start?

    Then you see Unraid starting up (text scrolling by) and at some point the screen goes blank?

     

    What happens if you let Unraid start in its default mode (without GUI)?

     

    Link to comment
    11 minutes ago, bastl said:

    Use one of your "two Linux VMs running on the GeForce GT 1030" instead.

     

    Edit:

     

    You can also use a SSH connection to the server to control your VMs if you like and in case you don't trust any HTTPS traffic to your server. 

     

    How when the I cannot get to the VMs because the Unraid gui didn't start?  Even with them auto starting they are not accessible without the gui running.

    Link to comment
    9 minutes ago, bonienl said:

    Are you saying you get the selection menu to choose how to start?

    Then you see Unraid starting up (text scrolling by) and at some point the screen goes blank?

     

    What happens if you let Unraid start in its default mode (without GUI)?

     

     

    Yes, I get the selection menu.

    Yes, I see the Unraid starting up text scrolling by.

    Finally the screen is cleared with only a flashing cursor (1080p resolution) in the top left corner of the screen.  Access via web browser works.

     

    Starting Unraid in the default mode leads to a login prompt, login works.  No gui of course.  Access via web browser works.

     

    Unraid is running just the gui isn't initializing.

    Link to comment
    13 minutes ago, SonWon said:

    Unraid is running just the gui isn't initializing.

    Worth a try: remove the USB stick and place it in a Windows machine to let it error check and correct.

    Link to comment
    9 minutes ago, SonWon said:

    How when the I cannot get to the VMs because the Unraid gui didn't start?  Even with them auto starting they are not accessible without the gui running.

    You don't need the gui to access a VM with a GPU passed through. Thats the main purpose to have a dedicated GPU inside a VM. Plug a Monitor into that GPU and if everything is setup correctly, you should see the Desktop of your VM. Sure you need an keyboard and a mouse attached to the VM to controll it, but isn't that what you're already doin with your gaming VM? 

     

    Example from my usecase. A linux VM for managing Unraid and light web browsing and office stuff with it's own GPU and mouse, BT dongle for keyboard passed through. And I have a second VM with Windows installed for gaming with it's own GPU and mouse and an USB keyboard. Both connected to the same monitor (HDMI, DisplayPort) to switch between the VMs I have to press a button on the monitor to switch the input source and a hotkey on the keyboard to switch between Bluetooth or USB connection. 

     

    If you struggle to get the GUI working and only want wo start or stop a VM you can use a SSH client on your phone or tablet, connect to your server and type

     

    virsh start VMNAME
    
    or
    
    virsh stop VMNAME

     

    Link to comment
    3 minutes ago, bonienl said:

    Worth a try: remove the USB stick and place it in a Windows machine to let it error check and correct.

    Memory is good.  I had to return the first set because of errors during testing.

    Link to comment
    2 minutes ago, bastl said:

    You don't need the gui to access a VM with a GPU passed through. Thats the main purpose to have a dedicated GPU inside a VM. Plug a Monitor into that GPU and if everything is setup correctly, you should see the Desktop of your VM. Sure you need an keyboard and a mouse attached to the VM to controll it, but isn't that what you're already doin with your gaming VM? 

     

    Example from my usecase. A linux VM for managing Unraid and light web browsing and office stuff with it's own GPU and mouse, BT dongle for keyboard passed through. And I have a second VM with Windows installed for gaming with it's own GPU and mouse and an USB keyboard. Both connected to the same monitor (HDMI, DisplayPort) to switch between the VMs I have to press a button on the monitor to switch the input source and a hotkey on the keyboard to switch between Bluetooth or USB connection. 

     

    If you struggle to get the GUI working and only want wo start or stop a VM you can use a SSH client on your phone or tablet, connect to your server and type

     

    
    virsh start VMNAME
    
    or
    
    virsh stop VMNAME

     

     

    That would require using the Win 10 VM to access Unraid and the other VMs.  It would also mean a whole GPU is sitting there doing nothing.  I think this would be a senseless workaround and not very secure.  Every time I login the Unraid root password would be exposed to the Win 10 pass through VM and all of the other VMs have exposure too.  I wouldn't trust a Win 10 pass through VM as my daily interface manager nor should anyone else.  This defeats the purpose of Unraid.

     

    Link to comment

    No one said you require your Win10 VM to access Unraid. I gave you 4 other Options to manage your server without using a Windows VM or using the Unraid GUI. Now explain me, why are you not using one of your Linux VMs if you don't trust MS? You posted above you have 2 VMs using the 1030.

     

    Maybe I don't really get your point. You're starting your server without any VMs and than decide everytime what you wanna do and manual start the specific VM? Are you controlling all your VMs except from the gaming VM via WebVNC from the GUI only? Is this the case, why not using a dedicated VM you already have for this purpose? 

    Link to comment

    Yah, I think I worded this poorly.  I am still learning about Unraid.  I am more familiar with KVM and I now see that Unraid by default only supports VNC for a GPU.  With KVM running on top of Xubuntu I can select 5 different GPU options not counting pass through and VNC is not one of the choices.  VNC doesn't perform good enough for video applications in my limited testing.  So I see now with Unraid I would need another GPU for two pass through VMs.

     

    GPU 1, boot for Unraid

    GPU 2, Linux VM for web browsing, email, youtube, netflix, etc.

    GPU 3, Gaming VM

     

    I don't know, will Unraid boot without a GPU, if yes then I would only need two GPUs.  My current setup wouldn't support a third GPU.

     

    I need to reconsider using Unraid after I have an answer to booting Unraid without a GPU.  My plan was to do all web browsing, email, and youtube inside a VM to isolate the OS from threats.  The gaming VM was to dump dual booting, I am tired of that.

     

    However Unraid still doesn't boot into gui mode and it should so this is broken.

     

    Link to comment

    Aside from the GUI not working, you only need 2 GPUs for your needs. Same as I, setup your a webbrowsing, mail, media VM with a GPU and a Gaming VM with a second GPU. As I said before, there is no need for using Unraids GUI if you can manage it from within a VM anyways. Unraid will work without a GPU without any issues

    Link to comment

    Historically Unraid was run ‘headless’ administered from another machine/device.   A GPU was then only required if the motherboard demanded it to boot successfully.    The option to have the GUI Boot mode was added during v6 development due to popular demand but I think that the ‘headless’ mode is probably still the commonest way Unraid is run.

     

    There have been a number of reports that some motherboard/GPU combinations do not seem to run in GUI boot mode at optimum resolution.  I know Limetech have been trying to reduce the incidence of this type of problem but it has definitely not been eradicated for everyone.

    • Upvote 1
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    Thank you both.

     

    I will try passing through the GPU to the Linux VM and see what happens when I boot.  The BIOS should post since pass through doesn't kick in until the kernel loads.  I should still be able to access Unraid via the browser to start the VM.  I can also test video playback.  Wait with this setup only one Linux VM can run in pass through.  The other will be crippled by VNC.  I think better gui support would make Unraid a better platform for running VMs.  For example, with Red Hat or Arch I can boot to a desktop and only run VMs without VNC overhead.  I wouldn't run any applications on the Host OS just in the guest OSes.  It would be better if I could use Unraid like that and Unraid would be more useful for my needs.

     

    Unraid offers me two things, unraid (storage) and easier to configure VMs.  I need to think about if Unraid is worth the constraints.

    Link to comment

    @SonWon You don't really get it 😂

     

    If you don't want to run any application in the host system, why you want a desktop environment??? If you're using Arch or RedHat with an desktop environment YOU HAVE TO HAVE A GPU for that. Both distros could be run headless without a GPU as well. VMs you create from there is similar to Unraid

     

    1. Option: virtual GPU (spice, QXL whatever)

    • accessible via Spice Client, VNC or any other remote software from whatever device you like
    • no GPU hardware acceleration
    • worse performance as a real GPU

     

    2. Option: passed through physical existing GPU

    • access via directly connected monitor
    • 3D acceleration for rendering, games to use your actual hardware
    • better graphics performance
    • GPU in use by a VM can't be used by another VM

     

    Unraid, the host system is more like a "headless" virtualisation platform like XenServer, XCP-NG or VMware vSphere, not like a software solution like Virtualbox or VMware player where you need a host OS with it's own desktop environment. There is no need for an GPU to run Unraid. Same as for example FreeNas. YOU DON'T NEED A GPU. Unraid is more special and provides you the ability to boot in an desktop environment (GUI) but in this case YOU NEED A GPU. But it's kinda waste to use a GPU for starting or stoping your VMs if you work inside a VM anyway. Give the GPU to the VM you wanna use as a daily system and use it's 3D acceleration inside the VM and manage your server via the webui. But be aware you can't have 2 VMs running at the same time using that GPU. Otherwise you can have as much VMs as you like or better say, as your system can handle running in parallel with "virtual CPUs" and "virtual GPUs" as you like. 

     

    You have different choices for defining the virtual GPU (QXL, Cirrus, vmvga) in the VM settings. QXL mostly performs the best and the rest is more for compatibility reasons. You can access the VM via the webVNC client build into unraid or use a standalone client inside your main VM (the one with the GPU power) to access these VMs. You can also install whatever remote software you want inside each VM to access it and control it. RDP, AnyDesk, NoMachine or Teamviewer. It's up on you. You don't need to use the build in webVNC, only for first install of the VMs OS and the initial setup the webVNC is needed. 

     

    Edited by bastl
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    Got it, the Unraid limitation is that I cannot use QXL for a VM.  I know pass through is faster but only for one single VM.  I want to run multiple VMs without the VNC performance loss.  I cannot do that without QXL.  At most my system will fit two GPUs and I want to run 3 maybe 4.  To use Unraid I would need to run two VMs max or use VNC and the performance degradation.  It would have been better if I had the option to use Unraid with VNC or QXL or even both as it is it is a limitation.

     

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