wsume99

Keep in mind that the 4TB Seagate drives in the Backblaze report have an average age of less than half a year. Same goes for some of the WD Red drives they have.

Grumpy - I think you have some reasonable points and ask some very good questions. I do doubt your numbers on the number of purchased licenses. If there are 61k registered users on the forum that doesn't mean that they purchased a key. Keep in mind that many may still be using the free version or tried it and moved on to something else. Of course - as you pointed out - some users purchase multiple keys. So we don't know how much revenue limetech has made however I do think that limetech has made decent money on unraid otherwise it would not still be around. That said, I think that if limetech wants to continue to see users buy unraid keys they are going to have to expand it's capability by moving to a full distro and opening the door to a whole new world of functionality. I believe the path to growth is to expand capability not wait for more people to discover the usefulness of a media server. Even if you don't want/need anything more than a bare metal unraid media server having a full distro would attract more users and developers which will benefit all users.

If you go the VM route how do you connect a remote control when the server is so far from the TV?

This may add to the confusion but wouldn't it be correct to say that by moving unraid to a mainstream up-to-date distro then you'd eliminate the need for members of the unraid community to virtualize in order to install additional functionality? So then all that remains is what would be other reasons for virtualizing? I'm sure that is a huge list but I think the OP is asking for the most common. For example

Can the thread be modified to allow for changing your vote? I accidentally selected the wrong option. I wanted to vote for OpenSUSE but instead voted for CentOS.

I ran the long SMART test. It passed the first few times but eventually failed.

This may not be helpful but I just RMA'd a failed 2TB Hitachi drive that I was using in a windows box. The drive was acting funny (i.e. write failures) but nothing was showing up in the SMART report just like your drive. So I kept running tests on it and eventually thousands of reallocated sectors showed up in the SMART report. It seemed like there was some latency in the problems showing up in the SMART report.

What you are suggesting is possible however you would need three separate fan controllers. Most motherboards have either a one (for the CPU fan) or two (CPU fan + case fan). So you're going to need some sort of controller card. I've never messed with one so I won't be able to give you a lot of advice on that path. What I can tell you is what my experience has been. I have an Antec 300 case and I always have at least five drives in my server (parity + 3 data + 2.5" app drive). In a few cases I've also had two additional drives in there that I was preclearing. My fan script monitors all the drives and my fan stays off until the a drive temp goes above 35°C. Once the temp is above 35°C then my single 120mm fan begins to ramp up speed at every degree until it reaches full speed at 42°C. My goal was to maintain temp stability and not have huge swings in drive temp or cycling temps. I did have to tune my fan script settings a bit in the beginning to get the optimum setup but everything has been pretty stable for several years now. With my single fan I've run a parity check while preclearing 2 additional drives and the drive temps never exceeded 36°C. My server is located in my basement so the ambient temp is probably somewhere around 20-21°C which does make everything a bit easier. My point here is that I'm using my single 120mm fan and it can easily cool all of my drives without breaking a sweat. It's probably only turning at ~15% speed and keeping all my drives at a very comfortable temp. So my advice to you would be to get a Delta fan (they're beasts and the one I have can be commanded to zero speed) and use your motherboard controller to play around with your case cooling. You'll get a better handle on your thermal needs and also familiarize yourself with the fan speed script. Then you'll be able to decide for yourself what is the best way forward. If a single fan works then you're good to go. If you need multiple fans then figure out what else you'll need to make that happen.

@gwl - I think this cable will solve your problems: Rosewill 12-Inch PWM Splitter (RCW-FPS-401) I have this in my case right now. Also, I would not recommend including your CPU fan in any of your case cooling ideas. Leave it connected to the primary CPU fan header and leave it alone. You'll need to get control of the case fan header and then use the cable I linked above to control up to three case fans. If you pick the right fans (like the Delta fan I linked in my previous post) and place them in the proper location they should be more than sufficient to cool your HDDs.

I use the fan speed script and I can stop my fan while my system is idle. In order to do this you need two things: [*]Motherboard with a fan controller that unraid can communicate with [*]A fan that is capable of being commanded to zero speed. #1 is easier than #2. If you can accomplish #1 with your current hardware then be prepared to replace all your fans. I'd recommend starting with getting rid of all your fans and replacing the rear fan on your case first with a PWM fan that can be commanded to zero speed. I know that this Delta fan can. I tried a Cooler Master fan first and it would not. The only way I found to this out was by trial and error. You'll want to install the fan to exhaust the air from your case and block off all the openings on your case so that the only way air flows into your case is through the front vent and across your HDDs. Take a look at the following threads for advice on how to set everything up. Temperature based fan speed control? X7SPA-HF based small (perfect) server build I've seen that there is a plugin now for fan speed control but I have not used it so I cannot comment on how well it works. I used the methods outlined above and my systems works exactly as you describe.

</blockquote> So it is possible that the enterprise drives are in a better operating environment than the consumer drives. So maybe it's a wash with the heavier usage. Who knows. What we do know is that from their data there is not a significant difference in drive failure rate - at least nothing even close to approaching the difference in reliability that the OEM's claim in their specs. While enterprise drives produce considerably more heat it is necessary to cool them really good. Asuming they are at the same temperature level it is still not the same load they are working at. If testing is done at different load levels you can't compare reliability figures. We don't know exactly how the usage compares so at this point all we can do is believe them or not. Right now their money is betting on having a lower total cost of ownership from desktop class HDDs. Seems to me that Backblaze is running their own little experiment to make sure that they are using the most economical setup. At this point they seem to feel confident that their results have proven them correct.

Comparing apples and oranges??? Well why not include both sentences from that paragraph ... So it is possible that the enterprise drives are in a better operating environment than the consumer drives. So maybe it's a wash with the heavier usage. Who knows. What we do know is that from their data there is not a significant difference in drive failure rate - at least nothing even close to approaching the difference in reliability that the OEM's claim in their specs.

I just upgraded my photoshop PC with a 4770k that I got from MC a few weeks back when they were $199. Got the CPU + MB for $275 total.

That's funny. A few weeks ago I was going back and forth in another thread with a moderator on this forum about this exact topic. He claimed that the higher class drives (ie NAS or Enterprise) were more reliable than desktop class drives. I did not agree and asked for data to backup such an assertion. He provided MTBF ratings from the OEM as evidence. The kind of life analysis performed by Backblaze outlined in this article is more along the lines of what I was thinking and IMO pretty much proves my point.

The buyer did not purchase insurance however I shipped them USPS Priprity Mail which includes $50 of insurance. So the shipment was insured for $50 but the buyer paid $100 for the two drives. Right now the buyer claims they are bad but that is just his word. I won't consider the drives bad until I can test them myself or he can provide me sufficient proof, which I plan to request, that they are bad. I also told him that if he returns the item then he needs to do so in the original packaging. I also order thousands of dollars of merchandise from Newegg each year and have been doing so for at least the last 5 years. Newegg was very good at printing a return shipping label but I was required to pay for it. I now have Amazon Prime and I've shifted a lot of my purchases to them because of free 2-day shipping and hassle free returns. I only buy from Newegg now when they are a lower cost.

Actually that's not true ... Newegg is very good at providing return shipping labels for defective products. I've had to RMA several DOA HDDs to Newegg and they did not pay for return shipping. Never had to RMA anything to Newegg other than HDDs. A waste of time and energy. Unless there was clear evidence of damage to the box; or it was lost; they are not going to pay for electronic malfunction. Save yourself some frustration and don't bother. Well at this point it's a matter of principle to me. If you are going to charge me a premium price for Priority Mail and say it inlcudes $50 of insurance then I'm definitely going to submit a claim espically since the drives went from good to bad and the only thing that occurred was shipping. If they don't pay my claim at least I'll have the satisfaction of being a major PITA to them (actually some poor sap working for them).

Here's an update - I sent the guy a link to the SeaTools User Guide and asked him to perform the "Fix All - Long" test which is basically writing zeros to the entire drive. He replied back (his username would indicate that he runs some sort of PC shop) and rattled off a bunch of BS about how he is Seagate, HP, & IBM certified and has been testing hard drives for 20+ years. Says that his techs would have tried all options to fix the drive including checking to see if the drive is still under warranty before sending me the message about the drives not working. Anyhow he agreed to have his guys take a look at it again today. [Rant] It has been my experience that people who throw out all their qualifications and certifications as proof that they are smart usually end up being not very smart. I have several pieces of very expensive paper that say I'm really smart too but that doesn't mean a lot in my book. I'll judge a person's intelligence based on what they say/do. [/Rant] Anyhow, back on topic. My plan is ... [*]Try to have the buyer fix the drive as stated above [*]If it cannot be fixed then I'll request a SMART health report to verify. Interesting question is what if the drive passes the SMART health report but fails the SeaTools long test? Assuming that the issue here is bad sectors then either the bad sectors can be reallocated and eventually the drive will pass the long test OR the drive will just keep throwing bad sectors until it eventually fails the SMART check. [*]I agree that eventhough the listing specified "No Returns" that I need to accept a return for a defective product. If the product was working then I'd say no. [*]I will require the buyer to ship back to me in the original packaging with insurance and tracking. I will not pay for return shipping. If I buy something from Newegg and it is defective I have to pay to ship it back. The buyer may be out return shiping but I've lost two HDDs plus the cost to ship them to him originally. So I think it's fair for him to cover the cost of return shipping. [*]Once I receive the drives back I'll refund him the original purchase price. [*]Then I'll test the drives myself and decide what to do with them. If they are bad I'll pursue an insurnace claim with USPS - that should be a lot of fun. I guess that's what I get for using ebay to sell HDDs.

I have the preclear reports showing the drives were healthy as well as screenshots which include s/n's showing that the drives passed the SMART and long generic test in SeaTools. The only thing I don't have is a picture of the packaging. The drives were shipped USPS Priority which include $50 insurance for free. I sold the drives for $100 with free shipping. I've read the user guide for SeaTools and it says that if an internal drive encounters a bad sector during the long generic test it will fail. If you are testing an external drive it will allow you to repair the sectors. It sounds like a "Fix All Long" test will allow the drive to reallocate the sector(s). I'm going to ask the buyer to run the Fix All Long test to see if the drive can reallocate the bad sectors and then pass the test. I'm betting it passes a SMART test right now.

Looking for some advice from the forum. I recently sold two 1TB Seagate 7200.12 HDDs on e-bay. These drives were in my desktop and functioning right up until I sold them. Both drives passed a SMART test (one had about 60 reallocated sectors) and the SeaTools long test. I alos ran three preclear cycles on them and the passed them all with no issues. Now the buyer is saying they won't pass the same SeaTools long test that I performed. I assume they were damaged during shipment but I packaged them pretty well. The listing specified that no returns or exchanges were provided and the buyer did not purchase shipping insurance. So what should I do? If I refund their money then I'm getting screwed. They did not purchase insurance so why is it not their fault.

That is a pretty big assertion. If you cannot provide a reliabile source of data to backup such a statement then it is only your opinion. Since you don't trust Western Digital, it's unlikely you'll put much credence in their reliability numbers; but they show 600,000 hrs MTBF for the green series drives, and 1,000,000 hrs MTBF for the Red drives. In addition, they back up the Red drives with a 50% longer warranty. Note that the Enterprise drives have MTBF's between 1.4 million and 2 million hours, depending on the specific model (the RE series is 1.4 million; the XE series is 2 million). And they have 5 year warranties. Where did I say that I did not trust WD? I don't trust any of the OEM's published failure rates. WD Green drives have a published failure rate of 600,000 hours - that is more than 68 years. Do you believe those numbers? I am more interested in real world life data from people/companies that actually use these drives. Sure Red, RE, XE drives have a better life rating but how does that equate to actual life? What's not to say that internally the drives are identical and they just charge more to cover the longer warranty or perform some type of burn-in testing to weed out infant mortality? Seeing as how this is the unraid forum I assume that nearly all of us are using parity protection so what is the big concern about drive reliability anyways? We've spent time & money to setup a system that can tolerate drive failures yet so many on this forum seem to still fear a drive failure to the point where they are willing to spend a lot of extra money to get more "reliable" drives. Why do you need the latter if you've done the former? Would I buy a drive if I knew I could get one that is more reliabile for just a few $$'s more? Probably not but how can I tell which ones are more reliable and how much more reliable are they? I don't think the answer to that question is found on the OEMs MTBF specs. In the end I think that all purchases come down to value and different people value different things. As far as I can tell there is no right or wrong answer and we all have our opinions.

That is a pretty big assertion. If you cannot provide a reliabile source of data to backup such a statement then it is only your opinion.

PSU is in full working condition. Includes original packaging. Buyer pays cost of shipping. Typically use USPS Priority Mail but will use whatever method buyer prefers. Payment via paypal. Ebay ID is selling4fun5856 - feedback rating is 100%. I will ship internationally however buyer will cover all costs. PM me if interested.

Link to Gigabyte product page: GA-880GA-UD3H (rev. 2.1) This board is in full working condition and has been minimally used. Does not have Gigabyte HPA problem, includes 8 SATA ports and works with a Sempron 140/145. Includes original package and all contents. Buyer will pay cost of shipping. Simplest method is probably USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate (which is $12.35 for the package size) however I will use whatever method buyer prefers. Payment via paypal. Ebay ID is selling4fun5856 - feedback rating is 100%. I will ship internationally however buyer will cover all costs. PM me if interested.

This is what jumped out at me ...

I agree that SATA ports are a thing to be considered along with case capacity however there are so many variations that it is hard to make an A vs. B comparison. My original strategy was to maximize cost effectiveness. I wanted the largest drives available that used the least power. This allowed me to conserve HDD bays/ports and use the least amount of power possible. What I've learned over the past few years is to stop overanalyzing the issue and just purchase the best value drives. A few extra watts here or there doesn't realy add up to a lot of extra cost in the long run. At the moment the best value (IMO) is 3TB drives. Now if there is some glaring issue - like I'm out of SATA ports or drive bays then that would have to be considered. Again, just my opinion so feel free to disagree but it works for me.