windows updates stopping access to UNraid on my LAN


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Start by reading this post:

 

       https://forums.unraid.net/topic/89452-windows-issues-with-unraid/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-959725

 

 

If that does not fix your problem, then read the first few posts in that thread so you have a picture of SMB problems.  Then start with the last post in the thread and work backwards to solve SMB access issues from Windows 10 computers.  (Remember you have indicated that your problem started with an recent Windows update so the solution will most likely be near the end of this thread rather than the beginning.)

 

Make certain that one your Unraid servers (if you have more than one) is the Local Master for the SMB network.  That alone will often resolve a lot of SMB headaches in accessing the server. 

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On 4/14/2021 at 12:59 PM, Frank1940 said:

Start by reading this post:

 

       https://forums.unraid.net/topic/89452-windows-issues-with-unraid/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-959725

 

 

If that does not fix your problem, then read the first few posts in that thread so you have a picture of SMB problems.  Then start with the last post in the thread and work backwards to solve SMB access issues from Windows 10 computers.  (Remember you have indicated that your problem started with an recent Windows update so the solution will most likely be near the end of this thread rather than the beginning.)

 

Make certain that one your Unraid servers (if you have more than one) is the Local Master for the SMB network.  That alone will often resolve a lot of SMB headaches in accessing the server. 

I started following and checking as i went along, i did have the allowguestauth in the registry to followed to ad that in, i have windows home so didnt have the gpedit.msc option, i also lossened the secuity in internet sharing, turned off password sharing etc etc, i managed to be able to browse the files in network, today i started up the PC and its back to no access again, the network address is invalid i went through the previous settings and they the same as i had changed them

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Do you have your Unraid server set up as the Local Master(/Master Browser)?     Settings   >>>   SMB   >>>  Workgroup Settings 

 

Is your server the Local Master?  (Use the Dynamix Local Master   plugin to determine this.)   You should also leave your server on 24-7 as this will often solve any of these types of problems.  See here for a Microsoft explanation of how SMB works:  

 

       https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-server-2003/cc737661(v=ws.10)

 

You will note that MS even says that it can take a considerable period of time to get all of the computers on a SMB  network into complete sync.  (Recently I went through a little exercise which confirmed that it is still a problem.  It took a considerable period of time for two clients on my network to be seen by the other client.  In fact, one client could see the second client several minutes before that second client could see the first one!)  That is why you want the server to always be the Local Master and leaving it on 24-7 is one to help assure this.  Your clients will always see it as soon as they start up and thus can connect to it. 

 

It seems that allowing the Local Master to move from computer to computer does cause problems.  I have long suspected that the Windows clients do store some information about the 'state' of the SMB network when they shutdown. 

 

You can also check to see what your Windows PC is using as the Local Master.  See here:

 

      https://forums.unraid.net/topic/89452-windows-issues-with-unraid/?tab=comments#comment-536447

 

 

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9 minutes ago, John_M said:

 

Does that still work? I haven't see the Yoda head recently (probably since upgrading to Unraid 6.9).

 

You are right--- the Yoda head appears to have disappeared from the header but the plugin still does determine what server/computer is the Local Master and displays that information in     Settings   >>>   SMB   >>>  Workgroup Settings

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On 4/18/2021 at 4:23 PM, Frank1940 said:

Do you have your Unraid server set up as the Local Master(/Master Browser)?     Settings   >>>   SMB   >>>  Workgroup Settings 

 

Is your server the Local Master?  (Use the Dynamix Local Master   plugin to determine this.)   You should also leave your server on 24-7 as this will often solve any of these types of problems.  See here for a Microsoft explanation of how SMB works:  

 

       https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-server-2003/cc737661(v=ws.10)

 

You will note that MS even says that it can take a considerable period of time to get all of the computers on a SMB  network into complete sync.  (Recently I went through a little exercise which confirmed that it is still a problem.  It took a considerable period of time for two clients on my network to be seen by the other client.  In fact, one client could see the second client several minutes before that second client could see the first one!)  That is why you want the server to always be the Local Master and leaving it on 24-7 is one to help assure this.  Your clients will always see it as soon as they start up and thus can connect to it. 

 

It seems that allowing the Local Master to move from computer to computer does cause problems.  I have long suspected that the Windows clients do store some information about the 'state' of the SMB network when they shutdown. 

 

You can also check to see what your Windows PC is using as the Local Master.  See here:

 

      https://forums.unraid.net/topic/89452-windows-issues-with-unraid/?tab=comments#comment-536447

 

Yes, i installed the dynamix master plugin, i have the yoda in SMB settings, the server and all devices i am using are set to workgroup KEVIN. I just ran that LAN scanner, however, right now i am on my laptop (matebook) connected to my network via openvpn connection running on router, i am accessing from laptop using openvpn connect

 

https://gyazo.com/1eaad512ecdbf43e0652bc178b28cc71

 

On 4/18/2021 at 4:23 PM, Frank1940 said:

 

 

 

On 4/18/2021 at 5:15 PM, John_M said:

 

Does that still work? I haven't see the Yoda head recently (probably since upgrading to Unraid 6.9).

 

 

I couldnt fins the yoda head but it is there, in settings/SMB

 

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20 minutes ago, loady said:

Yes, i installed the dynamix master plugin, i have the yoda in SMB settings, the server and all devices i am using are set to workgroup KEVIN. I just ran that LAN scanner, however, right now i am on my laptop (matebook) connected to my network via openvpn connection running on router, i am accessing from laptop using openvpn connect

 

https://gyazo.com/1eaad512ecdbf43e0652bc178b28cc71

 

I am assuming that your server is not on this list.  That means that this computer (the one you are using) can not see your server or the workgroup!   Lanscan has detected a wide range of IP addresses   (10.8.0.XXX, 192.168.0.XXX and 192.168.49.XXX) which is something I am not seen before.  What is the address that is assigned to Server?

 

You indicating that your server is indicating that it is a Local Master.  You can not have two Local Master for the same workgroup! 

 

This is what the scan of my Network looks like:

 

image.png.f7588da4ba5889bd786c91414dc398d1.png

 

The Column after the MAC addresses is the workgroup (HOME in this case.  The one on WORKGROUP is a printer but it is working so I haven't screwed around to reassign it!) to which each computer has been assigned.  And, obviously,  the server Elsie1 is the Local Master for my SMB network.

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6 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

 

I am assuming that your server is not on this list.  That means that this computer (the one you are using) can not see your server or the workgroup!   Lanscan has detected a wide range of IP addresses   (10.8.0.XXX, 192.168.0.XXX and 192.168.49.XXX) which is something I am not seen before.  What is the address that is assigned to Server?

 

You indicating that your server is indicating that it is a Local Master.  You can not have two Local Master for the same workgroup! 

 

This is what the scan of my Network looks like:

 

image.png.f7588da4ba5889bd786c91414dc398d1.png

 

The Column after the MAC addresses is the workgroup (HOME in this case.  The one on WORKGROUP is a printer but it is working so I haven't screwed around to reassign it!) to which each computer has been assigned.  And, obviously,  the server Elsie1 is the Local Master for my SMB network.

 Ah, looks like LAN scanner is scanning the LAN of the network i am connected to on the laptop and not my LAN which i am VPN into, i will do it from home tomorrow where i will be physically LAN side.

 

Sitting here now, remotley VPN into my router, i can connect to the the shares on the server with filezilla, i assume that is because its FTP ?

 

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11 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

 

I am assuming that your server is not on this list.  That means that this computer (the one you are using) can not see your server or the workgroup!   Lanscan has detected a wide range of IP addresses   (10.8.0.XXX, 192.168.0.XXX and 192.168.49.XXX) which is something I am not seen before.  What is the address that is assigned to Server?

 

You indicating that your server is indicating that it is a Local Master.  You can not have two Local Master for the same workgroup! 

 

This is what the scan of my Network looks like:

 

image.png.f7588da4ba5889bd786c91414dc398d1.png

 

The Column after the MAC addresses is the workgroup (HOME in this case.  The one on WORKGROUP is a printer but it is working so I haven't screwed around to reassign it!) to which each computer has been assigned.  And, obviously,  the server Elsie1 is the Local Master for my SMB network.


https://gyazo.com/cd3a38e9176a67e521cecac09649ea27

 

thats from my LAN, the server is .122 and is master, i tried just now and it asked for credentials, now the weird thing is and i say its weird because i dont ever remember setting it, its not the usual login i use, the password is the same but the user is admin and i did this before i automatically typed in the previous, last time i typed in the user/pass i use to log into unraid it asked me again and i selected a different account and tried the user as admin but it wouldnt let in still...seems like its held on to it until some time passes then you can try again and it works ?

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You could be running into one of the gotchas of SMB.  There can be only one user logged into a SMB server from a client computer at a time.  Plus, Windows can (and does) login users/client in the background.  Read about this situation here:

 

       https://forums.unraid.net/topic/25064-user-share-problem/?tab=comments#comment-228392

 

Be sure to continue reading this thread for the next several posts as other users posted up some different scenarios . 

 

You should also check to see if Windows is storing credentials to auto-log into your server.  (Type  Windows Credentials  in the search box on the taskbar of the client computer (MATEBOOK).)   These problems generally impact folks who are using Private and Secure shares.  Particularly, if they are also using Public shares on the same server!

 

EDIT:  You should be able to either paste your screen captures directly into the message or attach it to your post.  Posting a link to file service is not a good practice as many folks are reluctant to use them.

Edited by Frank1940
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i saw in that thread about credentials, i think that was the issue, i had logged in with wrong user and even though i was able to invoke a prompt to use another login it acted like it was wrong, when i deleted the credntial that windows had stored and then logged in again using the correct user i can now access the shares on both devices, thanks for the help..though i feel i might be back as mentioned by yourself, windows SMB has more to do with witchcraft and magic !

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43 minutes ago, loady said:

i saw in that thread about credentials, i think that was the issue, i had logged in with wrong user and even though i was able to invoke a prompt to use another login it acted like it was wrong,

 

That is part of the problem.  In general, the error messages thrown by MS Windows when it encounters a problem with SMB access most likely have absolutely nothing to do with the real problem!  As an example of this look at this post , first paragraph:

 

       https://forums.unraid.net/topic/25064-user-share-problem/?tab=comments#comment-228417

 

While you didn't completely describe what error messages you were getting, from your description of the situation in the above post, it sounds like you were seeing a similar thing to what Tom described.  

 

What folks have been trying to figure out is exactly what "secret" rules SMB uses and then play by those rules. MS has never really released a full spec or comprehensive user guide on SMB that I have ever seen or heard of existing.  (I really hope someone can call me out that this last statement is false!) 

Edited by Frank1940
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/20/2021 at 10:24 PM, Frank1940 said:

 

That is part of the problem.  In general, the error messages thrown by MS Windows when it encounters a problem with SMB access most likely have absolutely nothing to do with the real problem!  As an example of this look at this post , first paragraph:

 

       https://forums.unraid.net/topic/25064-user-share-problem/?tab=comments#comment-228417

 

While you didn't completely describe what error messages you were getting, from your description of the situation in the above post, it sounds like you were seeing a similar thing to what Tom described.  

 

What folks have been trying to figure out is exactly what "secret" rules SMB uses and then play by those rules. MS has never really released a full spec or comprehensive user guide on SMB that I have ever seen or heard of existing.  (I really hope someone can call me out that this last statement is false!) 

Had a feeling that in time i would be back here !!...today literally in front of my eyes i am being denied access to folders now, server is still local master and i can get into folders but it seems the permissions have changed, i dont have permission, i can read only, i have not changed this myself, i tried setting share to private and couldnt get in at all then..i dont really understand this permissions stuff, it is also withcraft.

 

LANscanner v2.02 - ScottiesTech.Info

Scanning LAN...

--                192.168.11.2     04-d4-c4-1c-aa-a8
DESKTOP-1MJKKFQ   192.168.11.219   08-6xxxxxx71-41  KEVIN
WARPTOWER         192.168.11.122   d4-xxxxxxc0-f6  KEVIN  MASTER

Press any key to exit...

warptower-diagnostics-20210505-1200.zip

Edited by loady
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Windows will do things in the background (and so can users if they don't carefully watch every Windows prompt as it is presented to them)...   Check your credentials again and reenter them if all else fails...   (This is why many Unraid users use only the 'Public' security setting on all their SMB shares!   If you don't have a real clearly definable security issue, perhaps, you should use this model also and you won't have these types of problems.)

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1 hour ago, Frank1940 said:

Windows will do things in the background (and so can users if they don't carefully watch every Windows prompt as it is presented to them)...   Check your credentials again and reenter them if all else fails...   (This is why many Unraid users use only the 'Public' security setting on all their SMB shares!   If you don't have a real clearly definable security issue, perhaps, you should use this model also and you won't have these types of problems.)

 

Windows is such an assache ... why cant you just turn all that stuff off, its my internal private network...no ones getting in, i just want to be able to move and rename files in one share...before the issue was i couldnt get into the folders...now it seems to be a permission issue...will running 'new permissions' resolve this ?

 


https://gyazo.com/69bb10d32e6df28a5d830250a9accda8

 


https://gyazo.com/5838658579e579516560b8fc004593d4

 


https://gyazo.com/6aec1dbe77940755c8be3085e01f55bf

 


https://gyazo.com/ed234bb6e17aa18480651a6f7c3b0b5f 

Edited by loady
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