comet424 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 hi i read article from 2016 on here ppl wanted it done but couldnt but is there a way to setup a Windows machine then i run a program to convert it to a Unraid img file to read in VM. i still having issues trying to get VMs to work right for X570 board.. but id like to least convert my setup to a VM so i have a template for later or backup Quote Link to comment
ghost82 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, comet424 said: hi i read article from 2016 on here ppl wanted it done but couldnt but is there a way to setup a Windows machine then i run a program to convert it to a Unraid img file to read in VM. i still having issues trying to get VMs to work right for X570 board.. but id like to least convert my setup to a VM so i have a template for later or backup From minute 12:30 Basically it's a single qemu-img convert to convert the physical disc to a raw image file. 1 Quote Link to comment
comet424 Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 ok thanks.. i still havent got an answer for getting a clean VM without unraid crashing... so i figured i wanted to try as no one answered my questions so i guess X570 boards are incapable without crashes so i figured i wanted to try a reversal from a physical machine then VM it to see if i get the same problems as i wanted to have a Gaming maching and a Daily driver.. but i have gotten virus's that bypassed windows defender from legitment searchs on google and i tired my windows get buggereed up.. so i wanted a vm but it just doesnt like AMD maybe so hopefully video will help its a try.. other then that i guess i should had a Intel lol but thanks for the help so far 🙂 i appreciate it it and the quick reply so ill look it up now Quote Link to comment
ghost82 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, comet424 said: ok thanks.. i still havent got an answer for getting a clean VM without unraid crashing... so i figured i wanted to try as no one answered my questions so i guess X570 boards are incapable without crashes so i figured i wanted to try a reversal from a physical machine then VM it to see if i get the same problems as i wanted to have a Gaming maching and a Daily driver.. but i have gotten virus's that bypassed windows defender from legitment searchs on google and i tired my windows get buggereed up.. so i wanted a vm but it just doesnt like AMD maybe so hopefully video will help its a try.. other then that i guess i should had a Intel lol but thanks for the help so far 🙂 i appreciate it it and the quick reply so ill look it up now Well, what I described and what the videos describes from minute 12:30 is how to convert a physical disk to a raw image, so to use it in a virtual machine; however you can create a virtual machine and passthrough directly the physical disk, or the controller to which it's attached. However, I would convert the disk to an image, and use that image in the virtual machine, because in that disk there are installed all the drivers to boot from the real hardware; with a virtual machine you are emulating other hardware, so windows will need to install additional drivers, windows activation should end (change in hardware): if you are lucky windows will boot and automatically install the missing drivers, otherwise you may need to add a virtual cdrom to your vm, pointing to the iso of windows, boot from it, with the virtual disk attached, and "repair" the windows installation from the cdrom. Take also into account how you installed windows: if windows is installed in uefi mode, choose ovmf bios for the vm, otherwise seabios, which boots legacy. As far as machine type, I would prefer q35 over i440fx. Edited June 2, 2021 by ghost82 Quote Link to comment
comet424 Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 ah ok how do you know which to choose seabios over ovmf and the q35 1440fx i know i have to set up seabios and sucks unraid doesnt let u change seabios to ovmf and vice versa they gray it out u gotta delete the VM and start over but i know if i do the windows ISO install i gotta do Seabios when doing vnc i get these bunch of lines of stuff and then a prompt white and yellow text... not sure what that ever is so i just learned how to dump vbios of my 2 cards.. as i found which no one could help me is if i reboot in VM it reboots unraid server completely.. or how do u force Keyboard to Attach always i gotta do the detach and attach everytime its a pain but no one had answers.. so i figure maybe just maybe it work better if i start from physical machine and then to the VM img or its a AMD Ryzn X570 problem with Vms and that intel is better so what do you notice seabios vs ovmf or what do you notice q35 vs 1440fx as i seen ppl doing either or i dont even know are there beneifits etc Quote Link to comment
ghost82 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, comet424 said: ah ok how do you know which to choose seabios over ovmf and the q35 1440fx Seabios and ovmf are two types of bios. In general you can install an operating system in two ways: older hardware support legacy boot, newer hardware support uefi boot. With an uefi installation an additional fat32 partition (EFI partition) is created and used to boot the operating system: this is how modern hardware works. Seabios in a virtual machine boots legacy systems, ovmf boots UEFI systems. If you set a virtual machine to use seabios and you install the os from scratch, the os will be installed in legacy mode, if you choose ovmf it will be installed in uefi mode. i440fx and q35 are 2 types of chipsets: i440fx is older than q35. The xml template differs, i440fx uses a pci-root bus 0, to which devices (virtual and vfio) are attached; to have more buses you need pci-to-pci-bridge, to which you can attach again other devices. i440fx is better for pci devices. q35 uses a pcie-root bus 0 (note the 'e' in 'pcie'), to which you can attach pcie devices (integrated endpoints, virtual and vfio), pcie-root-port, to have different buses, to attach again other pcie devices, pcie-expander-bus, to increase the number of available buses, and pcie-to-pci-bridge, to attach legacy pci devices. Clicking on a button in the gui to convert from q35 to i440fx and the other way will not work, but editing manually the xml is possible: however, most of the time it's a lot faster to create a new vm pointing to the same disk and let libvirt and qemu to add all the buses automatically. If you have modern hardware and you use passthrough you should use q35+ovmf. Edited June 2, 2021 by ghost82 1 Quote Link to comment
comet424 Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) ok learning alot now so how do i know if i booting in UEFI on a physical machine all i know is my Gaming/Day use computer is AMD Ryzen 3700x cpu 16GB ram Asus X570 TUF Gaming Case with the 2 older GPU i posted in the other topic i asked helped for but no one had answers they AMD something so i wanted to run Unraid on it but i find its glitchy reason i figure i try from a real physical machine and my Unraid Server is AMD Ryzen 3600 CPU 32gb ram Asus X570 Tuf Gaming Case LSI HBA card Expander Card 4 port so so i dont use the Expander or LSI for vms for my Unraid Main Server.. so it doesnt matter but for my gaming machine both Video cards are PCIE so i want to use Q35 and OVMF but how come when i install Windows 10 VM from ISO file i can not install windows 10 i get that screen and i have to switch to SeaBios and then once i install it if i delete the VM template i can choose OVMF or the Seabios it will boot to both so does that mean OVFM will boot legacy installs then? and ya i was hoping unraid would make it toggle back and forth from Seabios to OVMF but deletiing the VM and then re adding it only worked like that.. i even looked in the XML for Seabios or OVMF never oculd find it figure just change the word lol but ya i have had 0 luck installing OVMF is it the WINDOWS10.ISO file that could be the problem? and how do i know my physical machine is booting for the Asus TUF .. i just know i changed something because it would boot from a USB vs Windows when i setup unraid and i cant remeber what that was it was a while ago... ugh wish i remembered.. i just installed it and just worked go figure lol but learning more as i go along oh and can i check while in windows if i in eufi or standard boot up i guess eufi is what you always want for new hardware? same for the unraid install? Edited June 2, 2021 by comet424 Quote Link to comment
ghost82 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, comet424 said: so how do i know if i booting in UEFI on a physical machine Look with a disk utility if you have the EFI partition, if you have it you are booting uefi, if it's not you are booting legacy. There are also other ways to check uefi vs legacy, see here for example: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/85195-check-if-windows-10-using-uefi-legacy-bios.html 2 hours ago, comet424 said: i can not install windows 10 i get that screen and i have to switch to SeaBios Which screen? 2 hours ago, comet424 said: and then once i install it if i delete the VM template i can choose OVMF or the Seabios it will boot to both so does that mean OVFM will boot legacy installs then? Not clear sorry, I'm not a master in english language but your english is very difficult to understand, at least for me ahah ovmf cannot boot legacy: ovmf searches for the uefi partition, if it doesn't find it it boots to a uefi shell. 2 hours ago, comet424 said: but ya i have had 0 luck installing OVMF is it the WINDOWS10.ISO file that could be the problem? If you downloaded the iso directly from microsoft, that iso is compatible with both uefi and legacy installs, if you downloaded somewhere else, maybe that's the problem. 2 hours ago, comet424 said: and how do i know my physical machine is booting for the Asus TUF .. i just know i changed something because it would boot from a USB vs Windows when i setup unraid and i cant remeber what that was it was a while ago... ugh wish i remembered.. This is even more cryptic, sorry but I can't decipher (need a master key to decrypt ), can you rephrase? 2 hours ago, comet424 said: can i check while in windows if i in eufi or standard boot up Yes, see the first link 2 hours ago, comet424 said: i guess eufi is what you always want for new hardware? same for the unraid install? well, I would say yes, but it depends. For example, I have 2 gpu in my system, the primary one, a very old gpu, without uefi support, dedicated to unraid, and a newer gtx titan black passed through the my mac os vm. Since my primary gpu doesn't support uefi I need to boot my workstation in legacy mode for the bios, otherwise I have some issue with the webgui for unraid. But for my mac os vm I'm using ovmf to boot it in uefi mode. Last note: there's an utility to convert a legacy install to a uefi install for windows 10, which works directly in windows. I have 2 identical workstations, both had windows 10 installed in legacy mode; on the primary workstation I used that utility to convert the install to uefi without issues. Also note that legacy installations have the mbr partition table and to convert it to uefi that table must be converted to gpt: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-convert-mbr-disk-gpt-move-bios-uefi-windows-10 Important: save all your data before eventually playing with partition tables: wrong commands can destroy all your data. Edited June 2, 2021 by ghost82 Quote Link to comment
comet424 Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) sorry with my dislexia it all sounds ok to me but not always to someone else so the screen i get ins the uefi interactive thats if i set it to OVMF i get that in the VNC on a ISO Windows 10.. now if i change it to Seabios it will boot into the install what i meant about the ovmf and seabios booting.. i can install windows 10 in seabios but if i delete the VM keeping the vm file.. and i cant boot from OVMF.. so thats what i ment as i didnt know what was better.. but i cant install unless its seabios so i guess my physical install is EFI? since it says in diskpartition there EFI.. what i ment about the BIOS of the Asus TUF and the usb.. there is an option trying to remember from memory.. Fast boot legacy something. if you set it on You cant Boot into Linux it disables USBs like Part Magic, Puppy Linux wont even let you boot Unraid.. it only sees Windows Partitions.. But if you turn it off or something then you can boot Puppy Linux or Unraid from the usb.. it will see that .. its some windows thing you have in the bios i cant remember off hand... but thats what i ment so my 2 GPUS are AMD Radeon HD 7700 Series AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series thats what windows says.. and i have troubles like i posted in the forum.. if i do a reboot with these Video cards in the Windows VM it actualyl reboots Unraid so it reboots teh whole thing.. and i gotta do that frigin Detach Attach button.. everytime drives me nuts lol so i can pass through both GPUS but i find Windows is glitchy so i havent stuck with the VM.. thats why i plan to do that what you mentioned i can do convert my new windows physical Install. to a VM as i want to do what i saw before you can have 2 VMS and 1 mouse 1 Keyboar and u can slide over to the 2nd VM and back i saw that on Linus Tech Video a year or so ago i forget but i thought thats cool.. and i dunno if my Video cards support UEFI... would that be the reason maybe when i do a reboot it reboots unraid.. and you know when you make the unraid USB you can choose UEFI how do i know its actualyl Booting into UEFI? as you said thats for newer hardware... when i was younger i was into computers and memorized things like linus did i knew so much but then i got a gf at the time lol and father passed away then gf came an ex but i so left myself behind in technology.. so i basiclly starting over in my 40s... so i just relearning things all i know is now Video cards are soooooo expensive 20 yrs ago wasnt soo bad lol..2000 bucks for a 2080 or 3080 sutff Ray tracing etc lol if i can get retropie to work too that be good but ya so for my cards possibly causing Windows to reboot the Entire system is frustrating i tried googling it it didnt help.. and like i posted in my other 2 posts no help i guess i the only person that when you reboot a VM it reboots the whole system and i gotta do that damn de attach reattach the Keyboard.. yet the Mouse doesnt have to and they pluged into the same USB hub go figure lol out of my friends that we used to invent Water cooling 20 yrs ago and case Moding etc.. they all go out of it.. and i the only one that still into computers they all go wives or drink lol and sorry about my writting.. i do alot of run on sentences etc and i can explain it but sometimes i screw it up damn dislexia etc.. but ill have to try to proof read before i send thanks for trying so far to read what i mean 🙂 Edited June 2, 2021 by comet424 Quote Link to comment
ghost82 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 9 hours ago, comet424 said: sorry with my dislexia it all sounds ok to me I'm sorry too, no problem, most of what you write is understandable 9 hours ago, comet424 said: so the screen i get ins the uefi interactive thats if i set it to OVMF i get that in the VNC on a ISO Windows 10.. now if i change it to Seabios it will boot into the install Ok, now I understand. Just to make sure the settings are correct: make sure that as soon as you start the windows virtual machine you are fast enough to access it with the built-in vnc so you can see the "press a key to boot from cd rom": without pressing a key to boot from cd rom the vm will fall back to the uefi interactive shell. Try multiple times, it can be a bit tricky, because you have to be fast enough. Try also to press the esc key multiple times as soon as you start the vm: this will show the ovmf bios menu: go to boot maintenance manager --> boot options --> change boot order, click enter, the with the arrow keys select your cd rom and move it to the top with the + key; press f10 to save, go back with esc till the first page, then click reset. 10 hours ago, comet424 said: i can install windows 10 in seabios but if i delete the VM keeping the vm file.. and i cant boot from OVMF Correct, this is normal, seabios doesn't create a EFI partition on your hard drive, when you switch to ovmf the bios cannot find the efi partition, so it doesn't know what to boot. 10 hours ago, comet424 said: so i guess my physical install is EFI? since it says in diskpartition there EFI If there is an efi partition your installation is uefi. 10 hours ago, comet424 said: what i ment about the BIOS of the Asus TUF and the usb.. there is an option trying to remember from memory.. Fast boot legacy something. Usually I switch off in the pc bios both fast boot and secure boot. 10 hours ago, comet424 said: and i dunno if my Video cards support UEFI the amd HD 7770 should not support uefi, see here: https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/115032/ati-hd7770-1024-120119 It says uefi supported: no And also the amd 7950 should not support uefi: https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/124572/ati-hd7950-3072-120706 So, most probably ovmf+gpu passthrough will not work, ovmf+vnc will work. In a bare installation (no vm), with one of that gpu, note that the uefi installation could work: for example in my case I have several options in the bios of the pc, I can choose only the video part to operate as legacy instead of uefi, but let the other options as uefi; ovmf bios doesn't have that options. 10 hours ago, comet424 said: as i want to do what i saw before you can have 2 VMS and 1 mouse 1 Keyboar and u can slide over to the 2nd VM and back Yes, I think you are referring to "Synergy": never tried but saw a couple of videos. 10 hours ago, comet424 said: and you know when you make the unraid USB you can choose UEFI how do i know its actualyl Booting into UEFI? If you explore your unraid usb drive you can see a folder with name EFI or -EFI (with a '-' in from of EFI) : if you see the folder "EFI" unraid boots in uefi mode. 10 hours ago, comet424 said: all i know is now Video cards are soooooo expensive 20 yrs ago wasnt soo bad lol..2000 bucks for a 2080 or 3080 sutff Ray tracing etc lol gpu prices are too crazy..I would like a navi 21 or better 22, but I don0t want to spend all that money..I'm sticking with my gtx titan black which is still good for what I'm doing.. 10 hours ago, comet424 said: and sorry about my writting Again no problem, at most if I don't understand I will ask you to rephrase again Quote Link to comment
ghost82 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 11 hours ago, comet424 said: and i dunno if my Video cards support UEFI You can check it with gpuz in windows, see the image below as an example: if the gpu supports uefi, there will be a check next to "UEFI" Quote Link to comment
comet424 Posted June 7, 2021 Author Share Posted June 7, 2021 sorry for delay so far i havent gotten into the setup fast enough keeps getting that screen i posted.. why does that screen pop up? is there a way to slow down vm install so i can press any key for the usb/dvd install? its a pain how come i dont have a problem going seabios but ovfm i do? ill keep trying or i was thinking of doing a regular install on Bare machine and then convert it to a VM? so i can run 2 machines at once.. or is it really worth it??? so ovmf creates the efi partition and seabios doesnt.. so windows will still boot using non efi if there is a efi there.. just the efi offers more features basiclly is that how that works ah ok ya the fast boot and secure.. what really is that.. all i know is i needed to turn it on and off to get either linux to work or to get windows to work .. you have to flip on or off to get either one to work.. i been out of the game for years going into bios stuff.. so i not upto date on what it all really means what improvements do you see for gpu efi? so then i can get it to work as a seabios gpu vms going to both cards.. i can run 2 VMS 1 video card to each vm in a sea bios 1 with 8 gig ram other i did 6 so i had 2 gig left for unraid. and i had to do that BIOS dump to work properly it was blank screen at times.. but when i did that it works every time.. but i find if i reboot Windows in the VM it reboots the whole damn Unraid server.. so thats frigin ticking me off lol.. and i hate this Detach attach for the keyboard thats friging frustrating i dont get it and ill have to look up synergy then as id like the 2 VMS working from my older cards and slide over from one to another.. but ya i seen video cards is nuts like come on i need to sell my body to afford it.. and i would take forever lol crazy stupid prices gpu-z frig i havent used that program in like 10 yrs they didnt have eufi back then ill have to try that program so basiclly i need to run Seabios and the GPUs or should i still try to install windows via OVFM and then run the Gpus with the BIOS file. i just like then some help to get it to run stable and keyboard and the rebooting issue driving me mad Quote Link to comment
Lex1145 Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Hello all, I am having similiar problems creating VMs with the TUF Gaming x570 motherboard, Ryzen 3600, AMD 5500XT GPU, Nvidia Geforce 6200 GPU. I get a loop where it can't see my NVME disk where the Windows is installed. Quote Link to comment
comet424 Posted June 7, 2021 Author Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) @Lex1145im no expert but can you take some screen shots.. i have it running i just have issues with the rebooting unraid and such.. and what you do you mean you get a loop.. i can try to help you best i can.. but then i get to a point where im stuck with issues.. Edited June 7, 2021 by comet424 Quote Link to comment
ghost82 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 14 hours ago, comet424 said: so far i havent gotten into the setup fast enough keeps getting that screen i posted.. why does that screen pop up? is there a way to slow down vm install so i can press any key for the usb/dvd install? its a pain how come i dont have a problem going seabios but ovfm i do? See also this: I think you can start the installer from the uefi shell too. 14 hours ago, comet424 said: so ovmf creates the efi partition and seabios doesnt.. so windows will still boot using non efi if there is a efi there If there's an efi pa rtition windows boots with ovmf, if there isn't windows boots with seabios. 14 hours ago, comet424 said: fast boot and secure.. what really is that Fast boot is to boot faster but it can be a pain..it works like a sort of hibernation. Secure boot prevents tampering of the bootloader and system files and it check digital signatures of option roms, again also this can be a pain.. So I disabled them all. 14 hours ago, comet424 said: so then i can get it to work as a seabios gpu vms going to both cards Exact: if you have a uefi gpu, most probably it's a hybrid firmware, that means that you can boot both with uefi and legacy (ovmf and seabios), but if the gpu doesn't support uefi you can only boot legacy (seabios). 14 hours ago, comet424 said: Detach attach for the keyboard thats friging frustrating i dont get it I don't know what's happening here.. 14 hours ago, comet424 said: but i find if i reboot Windows in the VM it reboots the whole damn Unraid server Maybe related to the amd gpu reset bug: the gpu doesn't reset its state if you reboot the vm, so the whole unraid may crash. Linux and unraid have a patch for this: The "vendor reset" patch, but if I look here: https://github.com/gnif/vendor-reset there's no trace of your gpus in the supported devices table. 14 hours ago, comet424 said: i need to run Seabios and the GPUs Yes 14 hours ago, comet424 said: or should i still try to install windows via OVFM and then run the Gpus with the BIOS file No, it will not work, even if you specify the video bios path it will not support uefi. Quote Link to comment
comet424 Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 @ghost82 so i struggling i getting frustrated with it.. i kinda got it to work for a little bit.. and rebooting in windows VM worked only after i installed this guest-qeum program which i saw in a space invader video but its not working right 1... i couldnt do the quem convert program when i did my windows install to a img and added it to the VM.. all the screen says is Booting from Hard Dirve... it does nothing after that 2.. i did a VM using VNC as a template.. and then copied the vm twice 1. for each card.. and then i set to Seabios, Q35, all SATA settings, Videocard, BIOS Video card, for both i set the VM Managers Flow played from Multi-function To Down stream to Both nothing workds right on the older card.. i get a vertical hold issue.. like the olden days when your picture would just scroll up .. and you adjusted a knob. well its doing it too. on the new/older card... it would work then gets to windows and then went Black.. or it would boot but crash or when starting the VM it restarts unraid totally. or it crash Unraid.. and disables the VM managers after the reboot you gotta turn it back to YES i have linked the 4 VFIO settings in system devices.. i checked off the 4 2 video cards and 2 sound cards but really doesnt it link all 4 together as 1? i tried it on and off the VFIO i just getting frustrated.. is it a AMD issue.. is it a X570 issue... in the end its almost better not to bother doing VMS just a 2nd computer but i wanted 2 computers in 1.. least i never went the NAS/Gaming Rig.. the NAS would keep rebooting too so i stuck....what to do.. not even worth buying new cards like Linus Tech tips wan show showing what 2080 or so going for 1500-2000 usd so thats like 2500+ canadian for a stupid video card dont need the best for world of warcraft lol but i wanted an everyday user or Gaming or a Windows 98 machine as i got games from high school days Quote Link to comment
Vetteman Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 6/2/2021 at 10:47 AM, ghost82 said: From minute 12:30 Basically it's a single qemu-img convert to convert the physical disc to a raw image file. Thanks very much for the reference to SpaceInvader's youtube video. It was very insightful. Many thanks and all the very best during Christmas and the Holidays.. Quote Link to comment
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