Security Is Not a Dirty Word: Unraid & Windows 10 SMB Setup


Frank1940

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The attachment in this post is a joint effort between @Batter Pudding and myself. @Batter Pudding supplied much of the technical part of the Attached Document and I provide most of the background information.
 

What we are attempting to do is to show that it is easy to actually use Unraid with all of the security features that Microsoft has incorporated into Windows 10. What many of us have been doing (myself included) is to reverse those enhancements to security and use our Unraid network in what is basically a 2010 security environment.
 

@limetechhas announced in the release thread for version 6.9.2 that they are about to increase security on Unraid in future releases. 

Quote

 

Unraid OS has come a long way since originally conceived as a simple home NAS on a trusted LAN. It used to be that all protocols/shares/etc were by default "open" or "enabled" or "public" and if someone was interested in locking things down they would go do so on case-by-case basis. In addition, it wasn't so hard to tell users what to do because there wasn't that many things that had to be done. Let's call this approach convenience over security.
 

Now, we are a more sophisticated NAS, application and VM platform. I think it's obvious we need to take the opposite approach: security over convenience. What we have to do is lock everything down by default, and then instruct users how to unlock things.


For example:

  • Force user to define a root password upon first webGUI access.
  • Make all shares not exported by default.
  • Disable SMBv1, ssh, telnet, ftp, nfs by default (some are already disabled by default).
  • Provide UI for ssh that lets them upload a public key and checkbox to enable keyboard password authentication.
  • etc.

 

 

Unfortunately, this list is going to impact a lot of current Unraid users as many have setup their Unraid servers and networking to use these very features. Each user will have two choices. Either embrace security or spend time to undo each new security addition that either LimeTech or MS adds in their updates. If you decide to continue to bypass security, just realize that the number of folks prepared to assist you with any problems doing this will probably decline as more folks adopt increased security as a necessity.

 

In some cases, this is going to present some difficult decisions. For example, I have an old Netgear NTV-550 set top media player (last firmware/software update was in early 2011) that only supports SMBv1 or NFS.  Do I open up a security hole to use a well-functioning piece of equipment or do I replace it?  (The choice, obviously, is one that only I can make...)
 

Two Important things!

  • Do not post up any problems that you have with networking between Windows 10 and Unraid in this thread! Start a new thread in the General Support forum.
  • Please don’t tell us that there is another way to do something and that we should change our recommendation to employ that method. If you feel you have a better way, you are encouraged to write it up in detail and post it in this thread pointing out the advantages of your way. (One well regarded Windows 10 networking book has over 400 pages in it. Our document is 16 pages long…)

 

EDIT: November 30, 2021.       

Recently, something has come to my attention about Unraid and SMB. There have been incidences where access to Unraid shares is restricted or blocked completely from users who should have access to it. What has been found in these cases is that a feature, has been enable on the Unraid side, called Access Control Lists (ACL for short). This will show up as an ‘+’ at the end of the Linux permissions. See the screen capture below:


image.png.6cc40d211238abfcfb7b1f97da0c00c8.png

 

Note that the ‘+’ is also on the file as well as the share/directory.   ACL changes the way that Linux is going to control access to these resources. After some research, I found out that Windows has used ACL for a long time.  The SAMBA group has added ACL into its version of SMB.  Unraid does not use ACL in its security scheme.

 

At the present time, I can think of only one way that a ACL could be found on any Unraid server. It was done by a Windows user who was trying to change how SMB worked by applying Windows security features to an Unraid share by changing the default Security settings. (Basically, right-clicking on the Share in Windows Explorer, selecting ‘Properties’, then the ‘Security’ tab and working from there.)

 

The point I am making is that you can’t fix a share access problem by trying to change a Unraid share security using Windows security tools on that share. If you try, you will probably make things worst! (Unless you are a Windows SMB Networking Guru…) It is important to realize that if you are denied permission to an Unraid share resource, the problem can only be fixed on the Unraid side using the Tools in the Unraid GUI (or via the command line for specific problems).

 

If you are having an access problem to a Unraid share and can’t solve it with the tools in the GUI, start a thread in the General Support sub-forum and let the community help you fix it.

 

EDIT: February 25, 2024.

It has come to my attention that there is one more setting that was not previously covered.  The Network type should be set as 'Private'.

 

For Windows 10

Open up    Settings
Pick           Network & Internet
    In right panel, click on Properties button
In the Network Properties, select the 'Private' radio button.


For Windows 11

Open up    Settings
     In left panel, pick   Network & Internet
     In the Right Panel at the top,  click on    Properties
Under Network Profile type, click on the 'Private network' radio button       


EDIT:  March 15, 2024

It has come to my attention that there can be problems in linking the Network Neighborhood folder into Windows File Explorer in Windows 11. While there is a solution to that problem, it has some other side effects and the full scope of those has not been evaluated. In addition, I have become aware of another way to integrate access of servers into Windows File Explorer that works quite well if you have only a few servers. (Things start to look messy if one adds more than two or three servers but that is a matter of each individual’s perception of “messy”.)

 

So if you have having any problems with implementing "Network Neighborhood", try this new approach!   This new method is actually quite simple to set up.

 

This method is described in the attached PDF file named: “An Alternative Method to Network Neighborhood.PDF”

 

 

Unraid & Windows 10 SMB Setup.pdf

An Alternative Method to Network Neighborhood.pdf

Edited by Frank1940
Added Section dated 2021-11-30. Slight rewording to clarify meaning. 1/12/2022
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During one of our Private Message discussions, @Batter Pudding suggested that ‘Short Sheets’ of the steps involved in each procedure could be beneficial. I know that when I am doing any multi-step procedure, I like have have a printout of the procedure and check off each step as I complete it. The attachments to this posting are the short sheets for each procedure in the document in the first post.

 

EDIT:  March 15, 2024

Added the PDF for "An Alternative Method to Network Neighborhood".


 

How To #1-Advance Network Settings.pdf How to #2-Fixing the Windows Explorer Issue.pdf How to #3– Turning Off “SMB 1.0_CIFS File Sharing Support”.pdf How to #4-Adding a SMB User to Unraid.pdf How to #5-Adding a Windows Credential.pdf

An Alternative Method to Network Neighborhood.pdf

Edited by Frank1940
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While @Batter Pudding and I were discussing secure Unraid and Windows file sharing, I brought up the topic of Peer–to–Peer Windows 10 secure file sharing. He provided me with a very basic guide of how to do this. I took the time to assemble his information into a PDF file.


 

I then had a debate with myself about what to do with this information. It is not really an Unraid topic per se and there are some technical problems with some Windows 10 versions. I actually procrastinated for several months before making a decision. I finally decided to post it up in a new thread in this sub-forum for several reasons which will be discussed that this new thread:

 

https://forums.unraid.net/topic/115125-windows-10-peer–to–peer-file-sharing-guide/

 

Edited by Frank1940
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  • 4 weeks later...

Thank you so much for the complete set of instructions!  Highlighting the difference between accessing the UnRAID server from the Network icon from the Explorer left side panel vs. directly typing in \\SERVER in the location bar was the epiphany for me.  The former does not work and the latter does.  Thank you so much!!

 

With UnRAID public and private access working, I wonder if there is a way to map the UnRAID server to Explorer either as a drive or as a Network Location.  For example, if my UnRAID server is called \\SERVER, would it be possible to map that "top" path as a Network Location so that when I click on it, I see all my UnRAID shares?  I can access it via the shortcut method described in the document, but having it in Explorer will be easier.  Thanks!

 

hmmm....as an update, it seems after waiting a few minutes, the left panel Network icon access now works.  I can see all my UnRAID shares when I click on my UnRAID server and I can access both public and private shares.  I thought this was an SMB 1.0 feature which I had turned off per the document. 

 

Guess I'm confused again....but at least it all works now!!

Edited by Hammer8
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23 hours ago, Hammer8 said:

hmmm....as an update, it seems after waiting a few minutes, the left panel Network icon access now works.  I can see all my UnRAID shares when I click on my UnRAID server and I can access both public and private shares.  I thought this was an SMB 1.0 feature which I had turned off per the document. 

 

I have noticed that too.  I suspect that is is being caused by the fact that SMBv1 is not turned off (yet) on the Unraid servers.  (Contributing may that the fact that Network Discovery is on on Windows...)   I do think that I know how to turn off SMBv1 on the server but I am waiting to see exactly how LimeTech is going to be handling this when they release 6.10.0...

 

By the way, I did try to add a network location that pointed directly to my Unraid server as you indicated that you wanted.  It said that this was not allowed and I would have to point it directly to one of the shares on that server.   (I suspect that this is a security issue.  Much the same as you are not allowed to map a physical  Windows Drive (like C:\) as a share from your Windows PC--  you must pick a folder or sub-folder.)

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3 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

I suspect that is is being caused by the fact that SMBv1 is not turned off (yet) on the Unraid servers.

 

You can disable SMBv1 in Unraid by going to Settings -> SMB Settings and setting Enable NetBIOS to No. Perhaps Network Discovery is happening through WSD

 

image.png

 

 

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14 hours ago, ljm42 said:

 

You can disable SMBv1 in Unraid by going to Settings -> SMB Settings and setting Enable NetBIOS to No. Perhaps Network Discovery is happening through WSD

 

image.png

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Hammer8 said:

I'm not sure if SMBv1 is on in my UnRAID server...I have this on my SMB extra settings box:  min protocol = SMB2

 

This is why I am hoping that these type of discussions could wait until LimeTech has implemented their security enhancements on the Unraid side in 6.10.0.  @ljm42 is showing one approach (which LimeTech might build on) and @Hammer8 is showing another one.  ( @Hammer8--- Yes, you have turned off SMBv1 with this entry in the smb-extra.conf file.  However, you could also have it enabled with the setting that @ljm42 showed but the entry in the file will cancel that!)   Otherwise, I am afraid that we could end up in a situation like exists in Windows where there are more than than one way to accomplish the same thing.   Hopefully, then we can hold discussions, come to a consensus as to what user controls are needed, and a system which have a single interface to control SMB security level to meet the needs of each individual  user.

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  • 6 months later...

Changes in security.

Full AD integration for example.

If I remember correctly this post said there would be some security changes in 6.10. But it's not particularly secure now. And now 6.11 is in RC3

Edited by Dal
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1 hour ago, Dal said:

Changes in security.

Full AD integration for example.

If I remember correctly this post said there would be some security changes in 6.10. But it's not particularly secure now. And now 6.11 is in RC3

 

LimeTech has opted for a soft approach. From the Release Notes for version 6.10 see the following quote:


 

Quote

 

Security Changes

It is now mandatory to define a root password and changing the root user password will log out all webGUI browser sessions.

We also created a division in the Users page to distinguish root from other user names.  The root UserEdit page includes a text box for pasting SSH authorized keys.

For new configurations, the flash share default export setting is No.

For new configurations, SMBv1 is disabled by default.

For new configurations, telnet and ssh are disabled by default.

For all new user shares, the default export setting is No.

We removed certain strings from Diagnostics such as passwords found in the 'go' file.

 

 

Thus, if you have a current system using Unraid, you will be the one who will have to make changes to your server to improve its security.  Microsoft often opts for the hardball route and includes changes to upgrade security settings in its automatic software updates.  Since these can occur with the user's knowledge, Unraid users suddenly loss access to their shares and have no idea why.  Neither approach is completely satisfactory...

 

Regarding the AD issue, I refer you to this thread in the 'Bug Reports' for Stable Releases:

 

     https://forums.unraid.net/bug-reports/stable-releases/6103-intermittent-smb-issues-after-6102-upgrade-r2028/

 

Please understand that I have never used AD and I (personally) feel that the majority of Unraid user are also in a similar position and are not likely to require the use of it at anytime in the future.  However, I also think that there are an increasing number of Unraid AD users and @limetech may have to devote some effort to get things working more smoothly. 

Edited by Frank1940
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  • 4 months later...
On 6/26/2021 at 2:14 AM, Frank1940 said:

During one of our Private Message discussions, @Batter Pudding suggested that ‘Short Sheets’ of the steps involved in each procedure could be beneficial. I know that when I am doing any multi-step procedure, I like have have a printout of the procedure and check off each step as I complete it. The attachments to this posting are the short sheets for each procedure in the document in the first post.


 

How To #1-Advance Network Settings.pdfUnavailable How to #2-Fixing the Windows Explorer Issue.pdfUnavailable How to #3– Turning Off “SMB 1.0_CIFS File Sharing Support”.pdfUnavailable How to #4-Adding a SMB User to Unraid.pdfUnavailable How to #5-Adding a Windows Credential.pdfUnavailable

 

These sound great! Unfortunately, they seem to now be "unavailable", is there another way I can get access to these PDFs?

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Guys 

 

I was able to resolve not being able to access my SMB shares from the explorer except by manually typing in the ip address, by editing my host name records on my PC,

c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts.file

and added the ip address and the hostname eg. TOWER

 

not to sure why, as I was able to access my second server with no problems only my main one which was working a few days ago, i hope this helps 

Edited by MasterKraven
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  • 5 months later...
On 6/25/2021 at 9:14 AM, Frank1940 said:

The attachment in this post is a joint effort between @Batter Pudding and myself. @Batter Pudding supplied much of the technical part of the Attached Document and I provide most of the background information.
 

What we are attempting to do is to show that it is easy to actually use Unraid with all of the security features that Microsoft has incorporated into Windows 10. What many of us have been doing (myself included) is to reverse those enhancements to security and use our Unraid network in what is basically a 2010 security environment.
 

@limetechhas announced in the release thread for version 6.9.2 that they are about to increase security on Unraid in future releases. 

 

Unfortunately, this list is going to impact a lot of current Unraid users as many have setup their Unraid servers and networking to use these very features. Each user will have two choices. Either embrace security or spend time to undo each new security addition that either LimeTech or MS adds in their updates. If you decide to continue to bypass security, just realize that the number of folks prepared to assist you with any problems doing this will probably decline as more folks adopt increased security as a necessity.

 

In some cases, this is going to present some difficult decisions. For example, I have an old Netgear NTV-550 set top media player (last firmware/software update was in early 2011) that only supports SMBv1 or NFS.  Do I open up a security hole to use a well-functioning piece of equipment or do I replace it?  (The choice, obviously, is one that only I can make...)
 

Two Important things!

  • Do not post up any problems that you have with networking between Windows 10 and Unraid in this thread! Start a new thread in the General Support forum.
  • Please don’t tell us that there is another way to do something and that we should change our recommendation to employ that method. If you feel you have a better way, you are encouraged to write it up in detail and post it in this thread pointing out the advantages of your way. (One well regarded Windows 10 networking book has over 400 pages in it. Our document is 16 pages long…)

 

EDIT: November 30, 2021.       

Recently, something has come to my attention about Unraid and SMB. There have been incidences where access to Unraid shares is restricted or blocked completely from users who should have access to it. What has been found in these cases is that a feature, has been enable on the Unraid side, called Access Control Lists (ACL for short). This will show up as an ‘+’ at the end of the Linux permissions. See the screen capture below:


image.png.6cc40d211238abfcfb7b1f97da0c00c8.png

 

Note that the ‘+’ is also on the file as well as the share/directory.   ACL changes the way that Linux is going to control access to these resources. After some research, I found out that Windows has used ACL for a long time.  The SAMBA group has added ACL into its version of SMB.  Unraid does not use ACL in its security scheme.

 

At the present time, I can think of only one way that a ACL could be found on any Unraid server. It was done by a Windows user who was trying to change how SMB worked by applying Windows security features to an Unraid share by changing the default Security settings. (Basically, right-clicking on the Share in Windows Explorer, selecting ‘Properties’, then the ‘Security’ tab and working from there.)

 

The point I am making is that you can’t fix a share access problem by trying to change a Unraid share security using Windows security tools on that share. If you try, you will probably make things worst! (Unless you are a Windows SMB Networking Guru…) It is important to realize that if you are denied permission to an Unraid share resource, the problem can only be fixed on the Unraid side using the Tools in the Unraid GUI (or via the command line for specific problems).


 

If you are having an access problem to a Unraid share and can’t solve it with the tools in the GUI, start a thread in the General Support sub-forum and let the community help you fix it.

 

Unraid & Windows 10 SMB Setup.pdf 1.36 MB · 2051 downloads

After reading this post, which Frank1940 (OP) so kindly provided, I have the following comments:

*Ensure to download and read the PDF provided by OP

*Consider that I am a regular computer user only, no professional experience using computers.

 

#1 Most important: you will not be able to follow this in Windows 10 Home due to lacking access to 'AllowInnsecureGuestAuth'.

#2 I borrowed a Windows 10 Pro computer a few hours ago to be able to edit 'AllowInnsecureGuestAuth'.

#3 I have progressed after many hours of exploration from getting the dreaded "0x80070035... Windows cannot access...' to a a screen that requests my credentials for 'root' user, even though I set up the windows credential to be a different user (lets call that user 'BTrain').

#4 Setting up the credentials on the PDF provided by OP is very finicky. You have to use the name of the Unraid Server and shares (in my case 'Tower' and 'TEST' respectively) as such: '//Tower/TEST' but  when trying to map the drive only the IP number will work (192.168.x.xxx). This will take you to where I am now stuck: the prompt where a password for 'root' is requested.

#5 If I try to enter my password for the root client the program takes me back to another error.

#6 If I try to enter my password for the BTrain user, I am sent back to error 0x80070035.

 

Are you guys sure UnRaid is the most beginner friendly NAS? LOL.

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4 hours ago, B Train said:

Most important: you will not be able to follow this in Windows 10 Home due to lacking access to 'AllowInnsecureGuestAuth'.

 

You should be able to if you follow the instructions on Page 12 for Case1--- "Case 1– Setting up Unraid and Windows 10 without Using Insecure Guest Access"

 

Basically, you are going to establish a Share Access User on your Unraid server and a Windows Credential for that server on your Windows PC.  (You want probably have to reboot the Windows PC to make it work.)  Then when you access the server for the first time after the reboot, the Credential Manager will automatically log you onto your Unraid server when you access it.  This will allow Windows to establish a 'Secure Authorization' connection. 

 

5 hours ago, B Train said:

Setting up the credentials on the PDF provided by OP is very finicky. You have to use the name of the Unraid Server and shares (in my case 'Tower' and 'TEST' respectively) as such: '//Tower/TEST' but  when trying to map the drive only the IP number will work (192.168.x.xxx). This will take you to where I am now stuck: the prompt where a password for 'root' is requested.

 

One important thing to know/remember is that Windows will allow only one connection to any server.  You can end up logged onto your Unraid server using a "GUEST" logon.  Windows considers this to be an Insecure Guest Authorization. The IP address 'hack' is one way around this as Windows will consider this to be another server.  (Whether this is a 'bug' or 'feature' is a matter of much discussion.  Realize that if MS ever finds that has become a security issue, it will probably be blocked!)

 

5 hours ago, B Train said:

If I try to enter my password for the root client the program takes me back to another error.

 

Samba will not allow you to log on to its services using the user 'root'!!!!    This is a security issue.   You need to have that Share Access User and a Windows Credential both set up first.

 

=========================

One must realize that most of these problems are being caused by Windows-- Not Unraid.  The PDF was an attempt to set things up so that the Windows security requirements are being satisfied.  Using this approach, the monthly updates from Microsoft should not break your SMB Networking.

 

The alternative is to continually hack the Windows Registry as Microsoft addresses SMB issues.   (It is important to realize that it is not the average home user that drives MS.  It is the Corporate world and Government Agencies that MS is focused on.)

 

SMB is owned and controlled by Microsoft.  Samba is a reversed-engineered Linux equivalent network protocol to allow access Microsoft's SMB networks.   (The Linux networking protocol is NFS and there is a Windows version of the protocol that can be turned in Windows-- [not sure if Windows Home has this].   But most folks prefer using SMB if that tells you anything.)  So basically, we Unraid users have to conform to what MS does-- like it or not!

===================

 

One more thing.  I am not a SMB or Networking professional.  I believe that @Batter Pudding is one.  He was my guide as I assembled this PDF file.  As such, he was quite busy doing his job.  He is not on the Forum very often these days. 

 

SMB is very complex.  Most business either have a IT professional on their staff or have a consultant on call.  Setting up and maintaining a secure network is not a trivial task or is it simple and straight forward.  It is a minefield with 'gotchas' at every turn.   Most of us are using a very old part of SMB which might be best described as peer-to-peer networking. Most Corporate and Business setups use Active Directory and Windows Domain as their foundation.

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

 

You should be able to if you follow the instructions on Page 12 for Case1--- "Case 1– Setting up Unraid and Windows 10 without Using Insecure Guest Access"

 

Basically, you are going to establish a Share Access User on your Unraid server and a Windows Credential for that server on your Windows PC.  (You want probably have to reboot the Windows PC to make it work.)  Then when you access the server for the first time after the reboot, the Credential Manager will automatically log you onto your Unraid server when you access it.  This will allow Windows to establish a 'Secure Authorization' connection. 

 

 

One important thing to know/remember is that Windows will allow only one connection to any server.  You can end up logged onto your Unraid server using a "GUEST" logon.  Windows considers this to be an Insecure Guest Authorization. The IP address 'hack' is one way around this as Windows will consider this to be another server.  (Whether this is a 'bug' or 'feature' is a matter of much discussion.  Realize that if MS ever finds that has become a security issue, it will probably be blocked!)

 

 

Samba will not allow you to log on to its services using the user 'root'!!!!    This is a security issue.   You need to have that Share Access User and a Windows Credential both set up first.

 

=========================

One must realize that most of these problems are being caused by Windows-- Not Unraid.  The PDF was an attempt to set things up so that the Windows security requirements are being satisfied.  Using this approach, the monthly updates from Microsoft should not break your SMB Networking.

 

The alternative is to continually hack the Windows Registry as Microsoft addresses SMB issues.   (It is important to realize that it is not the average home user that drives MS.  It is the Corporate world and Government Agencies that MS is focused on.)

 

SMB is owned and controlled by Microsoft.  Samba is a reversed-engineered Linux equivalent network protocol to allow access Microsoft's SMB networks.   (The Linux networking protocol is NFS and there is a Windows version of the protocol that can be turned in Windows-- [not sure if Windows Home has this].   But most folks prefer using SMB if that tells you anything.)  So basically, we Unraid users have to conform to what MS does-- like it or not!

===================

 

One more thing.  I am not a SMB or Networking professional.  I believe that @Batter Pudding is one.  He was my guide as I assembled this PDF file.  As such, he was quite busy doing his job.  He is not on the Forum very often these days. 

 

SMB is very complex.  Most business either have a IT professional on their staff or have a consultant on call.  Setting up and maintaining a secure network is not a trivial task or is it simple and straight forward.  It is a minefield with 'gotchas' at every turn.   Most of us are using a very old part of SMB which might be best described as peer-to-peer networking. Most Corporate and Business setups use Active Directory and Windows Domain as their foundation.

 

 

 

Well dear unRaid community; I solved my problem and it is something no one thought of telling me.

It is time for me to swallow my pride, tell everyone of my stupidity an contribute one more fix to the dreaded '0x80070035 error':

 

 

Solution:

Microsoft does not find a drive if it is set as INVISIBLE on your unRaid share.

Go to your unRaid setup page, under the share tab look for the setting 'Export' and read the description. Set it up to 'Yes'.

 

Thank you for your guidance, Frank1940, and to the unRaid community across multiple platforms (fb, reddit, youtube) for answering my stubborn and incessant questions. At least I gained quite an understanding of a lot of inner workings for this software.

 

Do not hesitate to PM me to ask for assistance.

 

I am Stupid.JPG

Edited by B Train
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8 hours ago, B Train said:

Solution:

Microsoft does not find a drive if it is set as INVISIBLE on your unRaid share.

Go to your unRaid setup page, under the share tab look for the setting 'Export' and read the description. Set it up to 'Yes'.

 

This I did not know.  Thank you for posting it up.  It is in the right thread from anyone who has a problem like yours.  I know that there are probably other people out there who have hidden a share but they probably did it after they had everything working. 

 

A note of Caution to anyone else getting ready to set up SMB using these instructions and get it working BEFORE you apply any additional security type settings. 

 

For example, rather than using the 'Hidden' option, you could also make the share 'Private' and set up a user and make that user the only one who could access the share.  (You could also make the name of the share ambiguous as to its contents.  Example:  Rather than naming a Share "PORN" name it, say, "ISOS" or "MYSTUFF".)

Edited by Frank1940
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