Intel 12th generation Alder Lake / Hybrid CPU

[Titan84]

@ich777 thanks, yip I can buy that one here in Australia on Amazon too so all good. Just ordered one. Small price to pay for some piece of mind.

[Wintersdark]

2 hours ago, ich777 said:

I've bought this one and can confirm that it provides a valid EDID, don't know if you can get it where you live (1080p should do the job just fine).

 

This can change pretty quickly since back then older iGPUs also had no issue transcoding but suddenly (I think this was somehwere at Kernel version 5.10.x) transcoding stopped working on some hardware combinations and older iGPUs and a connected Display or a HDMI Dummy plug was necessary and this can happen to Alder Lake too.

 

As said above we are dealing with consumer hardware and it was never intended for our use case with a headless server and HW transcoding without a display connected, that's why I always will recommend to use at least a HDMI Dummy Plug.

For sure.  That's why I strongly encourage everyone to run one, as it prevents a host of sometimes baffling problems that can arise out of nowhere, even if it is working fine today.  Just better to avoid the potential problems.

[james.r.madsen87]

13 hours ago, mgutt said:

In fact it's really really bad. TDP has nothing to do with efficiency in idle or transcoding. Every 11th Gen Intel upwards is extremely power hungry. Only for comparison: My 9th gen Xeon 6 core setup consumes 13W without 10g card. 19w with. And I have 8 HDDs in Spin down (each consumes 0.5W). 

If i go your route with Xeon with a dedicated GPU the draw is about the sama (about 40w) as a 12/13gen Intel lake processor with iGPU. 
I'm buying 600 class 12/13 gen Intel with a b660 (z draws more power). In windows it draws 43w in idle benchmarks with unknown PSU and GPU installed. In linux and some efi tweaking you can easily go lower. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asus-strix-b660i-gaming-wifi-review

 

Edit: Found out that they may had a 3070 and platinum PSU and maybe US 120v/less efficient (i do not know where tomshardware are based). I have a Seasonic Titanium (better than platinum) 230v so even better.
Edit 2: And they used 12900K on the test. Lot stronger.

Edited September 30, 2022 by james.r.madsen87

[mbc0]

I currently have a 2950X I am using in an unraid server and run 3-4 VM's and 20 or so dockers and Plex.

My price per kw/h is going up to 0.35p on Monday and as AMD & Intel measure their TDP differently I am struggling to see if it would be econmical to change?

Can anyone offer any advice please?

[Wintersdark]

1 hour ago, mbc0 said:

I currently have a 2950X I am using in an unraid server and run 3-4 VM's and 20 or so dockers and Plex.

My price per kw/h is going up to 0.35p on Monday and as AMD & Intel measure their TDP differently I am struggling to see if it would be econmical to change?

Can anyone offer any advice please?

TDP doesn't really matter except where you're running the system flat out.  Would it be worth a full platform change?  Probably not, if you're looking to stay at a high end system running a lot.  The reality is that you'd be better off just cutting back on services.  Have a UPC, or even a killawatt meter?  Just try different configurations, maybe limit total system power (such as undervolt the CPU) with what you've got. 

 

But it's REALLY hard to see what actual power draw looks like from the wall with all the changing factors (workload, hardware, etc).  Basically, you choose between measures of system power for mid to high end parts, or measures of power efficiency for smaller and portable parts.  You just accept that power draw for high end systems under high utilization... Are high.

[mbc0]

This is what I am getting at the moment on an idle server...

 

 

 

 

[cscoppa]

Pretty happy with the power usage on my 12700.   (non-K on purpose)

 

This is with a Windows 11 VM running with 8 cameras in Blue Iris going, about 20 Dockers, and all drives (4) spun up at the moment:

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by cscoppa

[mbc0]

I have 24 Spinners & 3 NVME drives will spin my drives down later to see the difference, 92W is nice! 

[Wintersdark]

12400, 16 HDD and 3 nvme ssd, as well as my Asus XT4 wifi router and XB8 cable modem, I get around 120w at idle with disks spun down but services running.

 

Edit: the above is running two PCIe HBA's and a PCIe quad port Intel NIC as well.  

Edited October 1, 2022 by Wintersdark

[mgutt]

12 hours ago, james.r.madsen87 said:

If i go your route with Xeon with a dedicated GPU the draw is about the sama (about 40w) as a 12/13gen Intel lake processor with iGPU. 
I'm buying 600 class 12/13 gen Intel with a b660 (z draws more power). In windows it draws 43w in idle benchmarks with unknown PSU and GPU installed

Reaching 43W with dGPU and a 12th gen Intel is possible and depends on the board, but let's say you use a W480M Vision + Xeon W-1290 (10th gen) + dGPU, it will be under 20 watts. Must be, because I already measured it and it reached 11W without dGPU and a dGPU adds in idle 5 to 9W depending on the model (of course there are many inefficient cards available, I'm talking about a 1650 or 3070). Instead of tomshardware I trust in measurements of owners like those. There are multiple measurements on the last pages for 12th gen, but most of them consume 10 to 15W more than older gens so they are not even added to the list. PS: My W480M and C246N and C246M measurement are on the list, too.

[mbc0]

Gigabyte Designare X399

Threadripper 2950X

64GB RAM

Unicaca 3800 PCI SAS Card

Mellanox MCX311A-XCAT CX311A ConnectX-3 1-gbe card

2 X Rocket NVME

1 X Samsung 960 NVME

5 Hard Drives Spinning (Out of 24)

As I Type the CPU usage is fluctuating between 5%-20% and the Wattage is fluctuating between 188W - 275W so but changing to an intel 12400/12700 I could save around 60-100W it is tempting!

 

 

 

[Wintersdark]

It gets WAY more complicated than that though, because when the discrete GPU is transcoding it'll draw FAR more power than an Apollo Lake iGPU.  

 

But we'd also need to consider pricing.  An Intel Xeon w-1290 costs twice what a (comparably performant) i5-12700 costs, though it offers ECC and such support - and then you need to add a discrete GPU.

 

Saving 20W (5gbp a month at 0.35gbp/kwh) when your several hundred over in hardware cost is false economy.

 

Not to say it's a bad system at all, just that it's really not a fair comparison.

 

[mbc0]

Yes, I understand.... definitely not clear cut but very hard to make any decisions without having another system to compare to.

 

I would imagine that the 12400 in a direct comparison to my 2950X is going to be considerably more ecomical but by how much is (to me) impossible to guage.

 

I have now stopped using tdarr as I encoded everything to HEVC but no more lol!

 

I do have a 3600X server which I decommissioned to save power (it was just a backup server sat there running tdarr encodes)

 

It may make sense to make the 3600X my main and only server as I already have it and will be considerably cheaper to run than the 2950X

 

I did discover the Precision Boost Overdrive setting on my X399 Board but looks like I can only overclock? I need to research this some more as if I can underclock that may be the easiest/most cost effective way to reduce power.

 

 

 

[SergeantCC4]

Can anyone confirm if this is working (h265, tone mapping, etc) for 12th gen for jellyfin? And if so is there a beta release I need to use or just unRAID 6.11 stable and the latest stable of jellyfin?

[Wintersdark]

46 minutes ago, james.r.madsen87 said:

And i really doesn't want tips from a German who got us in this energy crisis to begin with.

What?  Take that elsewhere, while I don't know him at all, I'm willing to bet he personally had as much to do with Germany's actions as you did.  

 

Really though, please, *please* let's not go on political rants.  

[james.r.madsen87]

49 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

What?  Take that elsewhere, while I don't know him at all, I'm willing to bet he personally had as much to do with Germany's actions as you did.  

 

Really though, please, *please* let's not go on political rants.  

Sorry, maybe over the edge. But when you have a elderly neighbors living in 10 degree Celcius (50F) and burning wood like the it's 19th century. And smell of gas reporting in the community because of some gas explosions in our economic zone close to us. Then you get a German who say wrongly what to do to energy reduce. Then you snap.

[flyize]

16 hours ago, cscoppa said:

Pretty happy with the power usage on my 12700.   (non-K on purpose)

 

This is with a Windows 11 VM running with 8 cameras in Blue Iris going, about 20 Dockers, and all drives (4) spun up at the moment:

 

What do I need to look for in a UPS to pull this kind of data?

[cscoppa]

6 minutes ago, flyize said:

What do I need to look for in a UPS to pull this kind of data?

 

APC units are probably the safest bet, but I would imagine others might be supported.

 

More info here:   http://apcupsd.org/manual/manual.html

[Neo_x]

can anyone confirm how many 4k transcodes the 12900 can handle?

seeing mixed results online, and are looking to see if  what combination of hardware would give a cost effective amount of streams. Power usage not that important (<400watt under load should be fine)

 

my alternativate would be to rather go nvidia gpu, but then HDR tone mapping needs to be supported

[MeisterPilaf]

9 hours ago, Neo_x said:

can anyone confirm how many 4k transcodes the 12900 can handle?

seeing mixed results online, and are looking to see if  what combination of hardware would give a cost effective amount of streams. Power usage not that important (<400watt under load should be fine)

 

my alternativate would be to rather go nvidia gpu, but then HDR tone mapping needs to be supported

 

I could send you some results if you describe a little further. i9-12900T here.

 

4k h264 -> 4k transcode? or 4k h265 -> 4k transcode?

 

As far as i tested for my needs, it can handle a lot! 4 streams at once from 4k h265 -> 4k h264 transcode without any problem.

 

Send me some infos.

[Wintersdark]

It'll be a lot more than that.  My old 8th gen Celeron could handle 4 such HEVC streams, and literally dozens of 1080p h264 transcodes.  

 

This far, I haven't been able to get my GPU usage over 30% transcoding, but I haven't had time to stress test since everything was working correctly.  As it stands, my 12400 has done 6 simultaneous transcodes, 2 of which where 4k HEVC > 1080p and 4 where random h264 transcodes.  

 

Honestly though there's very little appreciable difference in load between h265 and h264.  When quicksync works, it's really spectacular.

[Valiran]

Hello!

 

What about a NUC12 with i7-1260p inside? from UHD HDR/DV to 1080p SDR and 720p SDR?

[Neo_x]

11 hours ago, MeisterPilaf said:

 

I could send you some results if you describe a little further. i9-12900T here.

 

4k h264 -> 4k transcode? or 4k h265 -> 4k transcode?

 

As far as i tested for my needs, it can handle a lot! 4 streams at once from 4k h265 -> 4k h264 transcode without any problem.

 

Send me some infos.

 

thank you. Typically 4k h265 HDR to 4k h264  -> don't see a reason to go lower

Following the thread at a clance it seems tone mapping only recently started working.

 

any detail is welcome! thank you sir

 

[dimes007]

Does anybody have HDR tone mapping 'working' as in HDR content will play but colors are washed out.   e.g.  minions look orange.   Is this adjustable anywhere?

[VideoVibrations]

41 minutes ago, dimes007 said:

Does anybody have HDR tone mapping 'working' as in HDR content will play but colors are washed out.   e.g.  minions look orange.   Is this adjustable anywhere?

Are you using 1.29.1.6260 version of plex and have tone mapping checked?