Planning a Small Form Factor Build


trurl

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I have been browsing this forum and the wiki for a couple of weeks now and I feel like I already have UCD. I think the only relief I am going to get from this affliction is to go ahead and take the plunge and do my 1st build.

 

A primary justification for the expense is improving WAF over the accumulation of storage devices I currently have. A primary requirement of my purchasing decisions is to get as much as possible on Newegg, with a starting budget of $500+ to take advantage of Newegg’s no interest for 12 months.

 

I think I would like to start the design from this case: LIAN LI PC-Q08B.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112265

http://www.silentpcreview.com/lianli-pcq08

http://www.silentpcreview.com/Silent_Home_Server_Build_Guide/SFF_Configurations

 

It has 6 x 3.5” internal bays, 1 x 5.25” external bay, and 1 x 2.5” internal bay. I plan to buy 3 x 2TB green drives (2 + parity) and maybe use something I already have for cache, with the possibility of expanding to 6 drives plus parity drive plus 2.5” cache. The case seems plenty roomy compared to some of the very small builds I have seen on the forum.

 

It looks like the toughest decision I have to make is of course the mobo. Most of the mini-ITX in the wiki HCL are not currently available at Newegg. I may have to go out on a limb and just try a mobo that has not been tested yet.

 

1) Should I be concerned about heat if I load all the bays?

 

2) Should I only consider mobos with at least 4 SATA and at least PCIe x4 in order to get to the possible 8 drives this case will support?

 

3) Any mobo suggestions or other advice?

 

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We have a build based around that case that uses the below parts

 

MOTHERBOARD:   ZOTAC H55ITX-C-E
CPU:	       Intel Core i3-540
RAM:	       Rendition by Crucial 2GB
PSU:	       COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M600
Case:	       LIAN LI PC-Q08B
SATA Cables:   18inch SATA3 Cable w/Locking Latch - Black
Flash Drive:   Verbatim Clip-it 4GB

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Thanks a lot for your quick response! I should have asked sooner and saved myself a couple of days of anxiety.

 

I would advise you to reconsider the choice of a small server, and opt for something with more expandability.

 

Trust me, once you get your server you will eat through the 7 slots and be looking at starting over.

 

Check out THIS BUILD another user is planning.

 

Just my $0.02.

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Thanks for your input.

 

I don't do a lot of video. Mostly music, photos, and backups for 3 PCs. If I ever do eventually eat through the 7 slots it will probably be time to start over anyway.

 

I'm afraid I have my heart set on a small server for now.

 

I would love to build the system according with the list prostuff1 gave me, but with 3 drives the price tag is pushing $800. I could save a little with a cheaper PS, but the mobo + proc is the bulk of the expense I'm afraid.

 

Let me narrow my budget to $500 - $650 and try again.

 

Anybody else have any mobo suggestions that will allow me to start with 2 + parity + cache and eventually go to 6 + parity + cache ?

 

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Would this work?

 

Buy a 2TB data drive and a 2TB parity drive, and re-use a smaller drive I already have for an additional data drive. Then as I copied data from my older storage to my unRAID system and was sure it was reliable, I would have some other drives that I could re-use. The only drive I have right now that I can spare is 160GB that I had planned to use for cache, but would it work for the 2nd data drive until I got things going? Then I would have 2 x 500GB and 2 x 1TB drives that I could start adding in after I had copied all of their data to unRAID.

 

Would this plan work?

 

I am still hoping for some ideas on unRAID compatible mITX mobo + cpu that will let me start with 3 SATA, expand to 8 SATA, < $200 .

 

It looks like there are several candidates at Newegg that fit the bill for SATA expansion and price, but I don't know about unRAID compatibility.

 

I will try to post a list later and see if anyone can comment on compatibility.

 

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Maybe this list will be useful to others. Also, see this topic:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7520.0

 

But most of all I am hoping for some more feedback about unRAID compatibility!

 

Thanks

 

Here are several candidates that are currently on Newegg. This 1st one is miniDTX. Rest are miniITX.

 

$119.99 - 6 SATA, PCIe x16

ZOTAC NM10-B-E Intel Atom D510 (1.66GHz, Dual-Core) Intel NM10 Mini DTX Motherboard/CPU Combo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500048

There have been issues reported with this one:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7535.msg72939#msg72939

 

$149.99 - 4 SATA, PCIe x16

ASUS AT3IONT-I Intel Atom 330 PBGA437 NVIDIA ION Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131653

Not in wiki HCL but success reported on forum:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7243.0

 

$149.99 - 4 SATA, PCIe x16

ASRock A330ION Intel Atom 330 PBGA437 NVIDIA MCP7A-ION Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157194

Not in wiki HCL. Mentioned on forums but no reported results.

 

These next 5 are not in wiki HCL. Mentioned on forums but no reported results.

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=10014.0

 

$129.99 - 4 SATA, PCIe x16 (x4)

MSI E350IS-E45 AMD Zacate E350 (1.6GHz, dual core) AMD Hudson M1 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130567

 

$134.99 - 4 SATA, PCIe x16 (x4)

GIGABYTE GA-E350N-USB3 AMD E-350 (1.6GHz, Dual-Core) AMD Hudson-M1 FCH Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128468

 

$139.99 - 4 SATA, PCIe x16 (x4)

MSI E350IA-E45 AMD Zacate E350 (1.6GHz, dual core) AMD Hudson M1 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130568

 

$139.99 - 4 SATA, PCIe x16 (x4)

SAPPHIRE PURE Fusion Mini E350 AMD E350 (1.6GHz, Dual-Core) AMD Hudson M1 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813154019

 

$174.99 - 5 SATA, PCIe x16 (x4)

ASUS E35M1-I DELUXE AMD Zacate E-350 AMD Hudson M1 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131698

 

(edit: fixed ASUS AT3IONT-I link)

 

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I accidentally gave you half the information last time.  I was kind of in a hurry and heading out the door so forgot to post the other specs.

 

The other build we have uses these parts:

Motherboard:	ZOTAC GF6100-E-E
CPU:	        AMD Sempron 140
RAM:	        Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 800
PSU:	        COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M600
Case:	        LIAN LI PC-Q08B
SATA Cables:	18inch SATA3 Cable w/Locking Latch - Black
Flash Drive:	Verbatim Clip-it 4GB

 

The reason for the expensive PSU is because of the case size.  It is small and there is not much room inside to store extra cables.  A modular PSU will help with keeping cable clutter down.

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I was planning to get a modular PSU. This one looks like a good deal at the moment:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341022

 

This is the same mobo + cpu in many Raj prototypes and the only thing that has been preventing me from going with this is wanting to get to 8 SATA.

 

Don't really have much practical experience with the different PCIe and SATA versions. I've just used whatever my PCs came with.

 

Would this SATA card let me have 8 total?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124027

 

If so, would there be any significant performance issues for unRAID purposes?

 

Or should I be considering a mobo with a different PCIe interface?

 

Or would I be better off just settling for 4 data + 1 parity + 1 cache considering the size of this case?

 

I have sent a PM to the user who reported success with ASUS AT3IONT-I to see if he is still happy with that mobo.

 

Thanks for your attention.

 

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I was planning to get a modular PSU. This one looks like a good deal at the moment:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341022

 

That psu should be ideal for your small build.  For more expandable systems, single rail is highly recommended but, in your case, this should be fine - especially given its 25A capacity.

 

Would this SATA card let me have 8 total?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124027

 

If so, would there be any significant performance issues for unRAID purposes?

 

That should be fine.

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Maybe this list will be useful to others. Also, see this topic:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7520.0

 

But most of all I am hoping for some more feedback about unRAID compatibility!

.

.

.

 

As I have suggested elsewhere - you don't need the fancy graphics capabilities of the ION platform for unRAID - you can save $$$ and power consumption by using something simpler.  Some Atom based boards with the NM10 chipset work well.  Gigabyte GA-D510UD works well for me.  I expect that the D525 version would also work (uses DDR3 instead of DDR2 memory).  All four SATA ports on the board work well.  There's only a PCI slot for expansion (no PCI-e), but with an Atom CPU that's not a big issue for me.  I use motherboard ports for the parity and cache drives.  My system with 7 WD green drives idles at about 36 watts into the power supply.

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As well you can save space by not using the Cache Drive its really not needed unless uploading over 25Mbs is required of course that speed is dependent on your hardware. You might achieve faster speeds avoiding the Green drives, but I'm perfectly fine with those results.

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My plan for the cache drive is to just use a 160GB I already have and am not using for anything anymore. Later I plan to take a 250GB 2.5" out of my XBMC Zotac ZBox, replace it with SSD, and re-use the 2.5" as my unRAID cache since the case has a bay for it.

 

Thanks to everyone for your help.

 

I have placed my order and can't wait to get started with unRAID!

 

  • LIAN LI PC-Q08B Black Aluminum Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case
  • ASUS AT3IONT-I Intel Atom 330 PBGA437 NVIDIA ION Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo
  • Rendition by Crucial 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model RM25664BA1339
  • OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V SLI Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
  • Verbatim Clip-it 4GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive (Black) Model 97555
  • 3 x Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 2TB 5900 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

 

Total $592.65

 

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Got the case yesterday and all the rest the day before. The build went pretty smoothly and I am currently running pre-clear on the 3 x 2TB drives.

 

I was pleasantly surprised that everything worked the first time after I powered up. I had to fiddle with the bios a little to get it to boot from flash.

 

The mobo had 3 fan connectors: psu, cha, cpu.

 

The psu does not have any connector so I did not use that connector on the mobo.

 

The case had 2 fans. I connected the front fan, the one closest to the drive bays, to cha fan on the motherboard.

 

The cpu does not have a fan, only a heatsink. I used cpu fan for the other case fan, since that fan was closest to the mobo.

 

Is the way I have used these fan connectors OK, or is there a better way?

 

Also, I need to get rid of the LEDs on the PSU and front case fan. I have read various things on the internet about just cutting the wires. Is this OK or will it break something else if I just cut the wires?

 

If everything works out I will see if I can add the mobo to the wiki HCL.

 

Thanks again everyone for your help and for this great forum!

 

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Plug as many fans into the motherboard as you can, then plug the rest into the PSU.  What you have done sounds fine.

 

Yes, you can safely disable the LED by cutting the right wire, just make sure it is the right wire!  You'll also want to cut enough of the wire out that it can't accidentally re-connect or short against something.

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I actually dug in far enough to completely remove the leds. Got the plus license and added an old 160GB drive as cache. Copied my meager 300GB movie collection over. Everything seems to be working great so far.

 

One thing I did notice was that some of my mobo SATA ports are logged as 1.5 Gbps instead of 3. I'm not sure if it is consistently the same ones or not since I moved things around when I installed the cache drive. The mobo came with 2 SATA cables and I used a couple of others I already had. They look identical. Could the cables cause my speed to downgrade to 1.5Gbps?

 

I think I will get some new shorter cables anyway, and maybe add another 2GB RAM so I can do MySQL for XBMC.

 

I also need to do apcupsd but looks like others have gone there ahead of me so maybe with the help of the forum I will figure it out.

 

Thanks to everyone for all your help.

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No, I don't think the SATA cables would cause the SATAI speeds you are seeing.  More likely it is a BIOS setting.  Are you using AHCI mode for all your SATA ports?  Here's some more BIOS settings you can check:

 

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hardware_Compatibility#First_Time_Configuration

 

Chances are they don't apply to your motherboard exactly, but they may be similar in your set up.

 

Good luck finding shorter cables - the new default seems to be 18 inches, which is quite long for most server set ups.  If you find a good source of shorter cables, let me know.

 

Install unMenu, then apcupsd becomes a push-button process.  unMenu makes many packages easy to install.

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