Storage only case for lots of storage

[gowthamn]

I currently have this server 

https://www.steigerdynamics.com/infinitum-pro-4u

 

I use it for gaming too and it has a 2 GPUs. I would like to buy a case just for storage and connect it to my existing server. Is there a case just for installing hard drives?

And how do I connect my existing mother board in my case to this new storage array?

[Ford Prefect]

Yes, it is called a DAS / JBOD chassis.

You would connect it via a SAS-Card in your man Rig, which has one/two external connection ports into the DAS enclosure, which in turn has the external ports, linked to a SAS expander and backplanes for drives.

 

See: https://www.servethehome.com/sas-expanders-diy-cheap-low-cost-jbod-enclosures-raid/ 

This is a kinda low-tek approach for a real DAS (https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/chassis/4U/847/SC847E2C-R1K23JBOD), as it is a "server", with CPU and MB, that emulates the features.

Some folks have even linked the main unraid box with one or two more unraids, where unraid #2 and #3 are actually running in a VM on the main rig ....you obviously would require to purchase additional licenses this way. Edit: I think @hawihoney is using a set of unraid servers like that.

 

In all cases, the main challenge is, to link power on/off/standby states  between the two or more chassis.

 

A smaller thing, maybe is getting an external enclosure with SAS ports, like: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=718&area=en

Edit: this one for 3.5" HDDs, but I think you'll get the picture: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=423&bno=74&tb=32&area=en

Still need a HBA in your main rig...like: https://www.broadcom.com/products/storage/host-bus-adapters/sas-9300-8e (two external ports)

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Ford Prefect

[gowthamn]

4 hours ago, Ford Prefect said:

Yes, it is called a DAS / JBOD chassis.

You would connect it via a SAS-Card in your man Rig, which has one/two external connection ports into the DAS enclosure, which in turn has the external ports, linked to a SAS expander and backplanes for drives.

 

See: https://www.servethehome.com/sas-expanders-diy-cheap-low-cost-jbod-enclosures-raid/ 

This is a kinda low-tek approach for a real DAS (https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/chassis/4U/847/SC847E2C-R1K23JBOD), as it is a "server", with CPU and MB, that emulates the features.

Some folks have even linked the main unraid box with one or two more unraids, where unraid #2 and #3 are actually running in a VM on the main rig ....you obviously would require to purchase additional licenses this way. Edit: I think @hawihoney is using a set of unraid servers like that.

 

In all cases, the main challenge is, to link power on/off/standby states  between the two or more chassis.

 

A smaller thing, maybe is getting an external enclosure with SAS ports, like: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=718&area=en

Edit: this one for 3.5" HDDs, but I think you'll get the picture: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=423&bno=74&tb=32&area=en

Still need a HBA in your main rig...like: https://www.broadcom.com/products/storage/host-bus-adapters/sas-9300-8e (two external ports)

 

 

 

Thanks. I don't want to buy another CPU, motherboard and install unraid.

SO, I will try buying something like  https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=423&bno=74&tb=32&area=en . Is there a rack mountable version of this?

and adding a PCIe card in the current system to connect to this. Is a PCIe Gen 4 1x slot enough or should I use a 4x slot?

Edited November 5, 2021 by gowthamn

[Ford Prefect]

Yes, there is this: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=482&area=en or https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=483&area=en ... both have mountable ears for fitting it in a 19" Rack....but these you can also just put on shelve, as it has stands as well.

 

The "card" in question is a SAS HBA with external connectors/ports (mini sas SFF-8088).

One connector will basically drive 4 "Disks" in full bandwidth (6 or 12Gbps each) but can actually address hundreds (with the use of a SAS-expander...basically with the same concept as a netwotk switch, only for SAS...SAS and SATA are compatible where SATA will only be a uni-directional connection).

 

I doubt that there are versions for x4 or even x1 slot size.

However the x8 should work in a smaller slot size (if the socket on the MB is open at its end, so it can still physically fit) but with reduced bandwidth (check/compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#History_and_revisions with the standard used by the HBA, MB and slot-Size of MB used)

The "smallest" one are typically for 8 SAS connections, some are for 4 internal plus 4 external, hence named 4i4e, then 8e or 8i respectively. like: https://www.ebay.com/itm/163197898846?hash=item25ff5a505e:g:llcAAOSwMYtcQEG0 (search string "SAS HBA 4e": https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=sas+hba+4e&_sacat=0) ... you can try searching for 8e when going for the larger case with 8 HDDs.

 

You'll also need proper cables, SFF-8080: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143370601219?hash=item21618dc303:g:Pu8AAOSw6Otda2Dg

Be carefull that you pick a card that is a HBA (Firmware IT-Mode) and not a Raid Card !

Models with a Broadcom/LSI chipset will work very well with unraid.

 

Note that you can convert an 8i model to an 8e model, with something like this: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=609&area=en

Internal connectors are SFF-8087 and you'll need these cables: link ... or use a "converted" cable: https://www.ebay.com/itm/283504829166?hash=item42023462ee:g:~A8AAOSwvSNczrOQ ... do not go over 1-1.5m in total cable length...keep an internal 8087-8087 cable as short as possible.

 

Besides that nice design from Silverstone, there should be plenty storage cases like that on the market, from other manufacturers, like fantec and others...maybe much cheaper (less pretty, though ;-)).

Edit: ...but should you aim for really *lots* of storage, this might be what you are looking for: link ..for a 8e Card, as it has an internal expander...just remember the drive limit in the unraid array (hence I mentioned the "cascaded" unraid servers via VMs).

Edited November 5, 2021 by Ford Prefect

[gowthamn]

14 hours ago, Ford Prefect said:

Yes, there is this: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=482&area=en or https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=483&area=en ... both have mountable ears for fitting it in a 19" Rack....but these you can also just put on shelve, as it has stands as well.

 

The "card" in question is a SAS HBA with external connectors/ports (mini sas SFF-8088).

One connector will basically drive 4 "Disks" in full bandwidth (6 or 12Gbps each) but can actually address hundreds (with the use of a SAS-expander...basically with the same concept as a netwotk switch, only for SAS...SAS and SATA are compatible where SATA will only be a uni-directional connection).

 

I doubt that there are versions for x4 or even x1 slot size.

However the x8 should work in a smaller slot size (if the socket on the MB is open at its end, so it can still physically fit) but with reduced bandwidth (check/compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#History_and_revisions with the standard used by the HBA, MB and slot-Size of MB used)

The "smallest" one are typically for 8 SAS connections, some are for 4 internal plus 4 external, hence named 4i4e, then 8e or 8i respectively. like: https://www.ebay.com/itm/163197898846?hash=item25ff5a505e:g:llcAAOSwMYtcQEG0 (search string "SAS HBA 4e": https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=sas+hba+4e&_sacat=0) ... you can try searching for 8e when going for the larger case with 8 HDDs.

 

You'll also need proper cables, SFF-8080: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143370601219?hash=item21618dc303:g:Pu8AAOSw6Otda2Dg

Be carefull that you pick a card that is a HBA (Firmware IT-Mode) and not a Raid Card !

Models with a Broadcom/LSI chipset will work very well with unraid.

 

Note that you can convert an 8i model to an 8e model, with something like this: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=609&area=en

Internal connectors are SFF-8087 and you'll need these cables: link ... or use a "converted" cable: https://www.ebay.com/itm/283504829166?hash=item42023462ee:g:~A8AAOSwvSNczrOQ ... do not go over 1-1.5m in total cable length...keep an internal 8087-8087 cable as short as possible.

 

Besides that nice design from Silverstone, there should be plenty storage cases like that on the market, from other manufacturers, like fantec and others...maybe much cheaper (less pretty, though ;-)).

Edit: ...but should you aim for really *lots* of storage, this might be what you are looking for: link ..for a 8e Card, as it has an internal expander...just remember the drive limit in the unraid array (hence I mentioned the "cascaded" unraid servers via VMs).

 

Thanks. This is all new to me as I never had to buy SAS disks.

I will buy this case: Case .

Then buy this card: https://www.broadcom.com/products/storage/host-bus-adapters/sas-9300-8e

Buy this cable: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143370601219?hash=item21618dc303:g:Pu8AAOSw6Otda2Dg

 

Which brand / model of hard drive do you recommend? I would like it to be at least 15 GB if not 20 GB. Would prefer if it has a built-in cache.

[Ford Prefect]

2 hours ago, gowthamn said:

 

Thanks. This is all new to me as I never had to buy SAS disks.

You don't have to.

SAS and SATA are compatible transport protocols.

The Difference is, SAS is bi-directional and SATA is uni-directional.

So you CAN use SAS or SATA...even mixed.

SAS drives will not spin-down as usual in unraid ... there is a plugin, I think, that can fix this (might be standard in v6.10rc already...just look around in the forum)

 

2 hours ago, gowthamn said:

I will buy this case: Case .

So you are really meaning it, then

 

Look at the features/specs listed, where it says: "Backplane: BPN-SAS3-947     SAS3 Expander card support SBB 4U JBOD system, for 24x 3.5-inch SAS3/SAS2/SATA3 drives"

Edit: the item actually says: "Please note. This can only work with SAS hard drives. SATA will not work."

This is strange!! Ask the seller if this case is right for your purpose...see my next post below.

Hence, you can safely use SATA drives with it.

Be aware that this "little thingy" will draw a lof of power and possibly so will make your kitchen light flicker when switched on and also will make your ears hurt

 

2 hours ago, gowthamn said:

Then buy this card: https://www.broadcom.com/products/storage/host-bus-adapters/sas-9300-8e

Are you able to use it in your MB...it is PCIev3-x8...look at the link I gave earlier from wikipedia and determine the max bandwidth from your slot size used.

When used in a x4 Slot, you could expect bandwidth of 120-150MB/sec per Disk, as the PCIe link will give you almost 4GB/sec (4000MB/sec).

In a x1 Slot, it will only drive a disk with less than 40MB/sec when all disks are in use (like with a parity check).

 

2 hours ago, gowthamn said:

Buy this cable: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143370601219?hash=item21618dc303:g:Pu8AAOSw6Otda2Dg

This cable will not work with that Card and Case!!

 

Again, look at the specs. The Card uses SFF-8644 ports...and looking at the Case (there is no info from the seller in the item list) I think it is SFF-8644 as well.

So would need this kind of cable: https://www.ebay.com/itm/153812129149?hash=item23cfead57d:g:QZcAAOSwUXFg9foZ

That cable link is from the same seller as the case. So do ask him!!!

 

Also you should ask him how to power up that thing, as I do not know if the simple motherboard in that enclosure will only have to be switched on or if there is some kind of external baseboard control link required (something your unraid with non supermicro server mainboard and chassis might not have)

I says in the item list, that it will run with unraid, but it also says, that this case is 2U, which it definitely is not.

Just ask the seller and confirm that it suits your need!

 

2 hours ago, gowthamn said:

Which brand / model of hard drive do you recommend? I would like it to be at least 15 GB if not 20 GB. Would prefer if it has a built-in cache.

I personally like Toshiba drives, they never failed me (yet).

So i'd suggest to look at the Toshiba Enterprise Capacity MG08ACA 16TB, 512e, SATA 6Gb/s (MG08ACA16TE) (I think there is a 14TB model as well)....they have 512MB Cache.

The Seagate Exos X or Ionwolf Pro only have 256MB Cache.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Ford Prefect
updated as eBay item is somewhat misleading in its description

[Ford Prefect]

@gowthamn Just seen this in the item list: "Please note. This can only work with SAS hard drives. SATA will not work." in red.

Actually I either did miss it the first time or the seller did update the item description.

 

Please ask the seller, if this the right case for you.

SAS drives are more expensive and also do not like spindown.

 

[Ford Prefect]

@gowthamn here is another option, maybe: link But I cannot make out how these things are connected.

Looks like infiniband QSFP on the PICs, which is not supported under unraid.

You could check with the seller if it will work with a SAS Card, and what port type....other buyers are claiming that, but you*ll never know what they got.

 

Edit: think I got it, QSFP SAS (SFF 8436)...this cable it is then for your card in question: link

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Ford Prefect

[gowthamn]

6 hours ago, Ford Prefect said:

@gowthamn here is another option, maybe: link But I cannot make out how these things are connected.

Looks like infiniband QSFP on the PICs, which is not supported under unraid.

You could check with the seller if it will work with a SAS Card, and what port type....other buyers are claiming that, but you*ll never know what they got.

 

Edit: think I got it, QSFP SAS (SFF 8436)...this cable it is then for your card in question: link

 

 

It is suprisingly hard to find rackmounted DAS. I Only find NAS online.

[MyKroFt]

Also remember, unRaid is limited to 30 drives for primary array, I have a 20 bay and a 36 bay expander, and can not use all the drives in the expander in the main primary array, unassigned yes

[gowthamn]

1 hour ago, MyKroFt said:

Also remember, unRaid is limited to 30 drives for primary array, I have a 20 bay and a 36 bay expander, and can not use all the drives in the expander in the main primary array, unassigned yes

What expander do you have?

[hawihoney]

On 11/5/2021 at 11:36 AM, gowthamn said:

I currently have this server

 

Look at this post for details (cables, HBAs, backplanes) on using Supermicro storage boxes (JBOD/DAS) and backplanes. It looks different now, but is working since years. Notes about power draw and loudness still apply:

 

 

[Ford Prefect]

11 hours ago, gowthamn said:

 

It is suprisingly hard to find rackmounted DAS. I Only find NAS online.

Look for JBOD as search item instead.

The one from Netapp doesn't seem bad....others here do have it running...search the forum.

That one, in the link I gave above needs rails (and ears) though

[MyKroFt]

On 11/7/2021 at 12:58 AM, gowthamn said:

What expander do you have?

4U Supermicro Storage Expander 3.5" 45 Bay Server JBOD CSE-PTJBOD-CB2

 

and take that back its a 45 bay, 24 on front, 3x3 and 3x4 on the back, dual ps take up space of 2 bays

Edited November 9, 2021 by MyKroFt

[KTFirst]

On 11/5/2021 at 9:33 PM, Ford Prefect said:

Yes, there is this: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=482&area=en or https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=483&area=en ... both have mountable ears for fitting it in a 19" Rack....but these you can also just put on shelve, as it has stands as well.

 

The "card" in question is a SAS HBA with external connectors/ports (mini sas SFF-8088).

One connector will basically drive 4 "Disks" in full bandwidth (6 or 12Gbps each) but can actually address hundreds (with the use of a SAS-expander...basically with the same concept as a netwotk switch, only for SAS...SAS and SATA are compatible where SATA will only be a uni-directional connection).

 

I doubt that there are versions for x4 or even x1 slot size.

However the x8 should work in a smaller slot size (if the socket on the MB is open at its end, so it can still physically fit) but with reduced bandwidth (check/compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#History_and_revisions with the standard used by the HBA, MB and slot-Size of MB used)

The "smallest" one are typically for 8 SAS connections, some are for 4 internal plus 4 external, hence named 4i4e, then 8e or 8i respectively. like: https://www.ebay.com/itm/163197898846?hash=item25ff5a505e:g:llcAAOSwMYtcQEG0 (search string "SAS HBA 4e": https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=sas+hba+4e&_sacat=0) ... you can try searching for 8e when going for the larger case with 8 HDDs.

 

You'll also need proper cables, SFF-8080: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143370601219?hash=item21618dc303:g:Pu8AAOSw6Otda2Dg

Be carefull that you pick a card that is a HBA (Firmware IT-Mode) and not a Raid Card !

Models with a Broadcom/LSI chipset will work very well with unraid.

 

Note that you can convert an 8i model to an 8e model, with something like this: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=609&area=en

Internal connectors are SFF-8087 and you'll need these cables: link ... or use a "converted" cable: https://www.ebay.com/itm/283504829166?hash=item42023462ee:g:~A8AAOSwvSNczrOQ ... do not go over 1-1.5m in total cable length...keep an internal 8087-8087 cable as short as possible.

 

Besides that nice design from Silverstone, there should be plenty storage cases like that on the market, from other manufacturers, like fantec and others...maybe much cheaper (less pretty, though ;-)).

Edit: ...but should you aim for really *lots* of storage, this might be what you are looking for: link ..for a 8e Card, as it has an internal expander...just remember the drive limit in the unraid array (hence I mentioned the "cascaded" unraid servers via VMs).

Hi. I am looking for a good (high quality) Mini SAS SFF-8088 to SAS36P SFF-8087 card (to convert my LSIBroadcom SAS 9305-24iPCIe 3.0 x8) to expansion to one external case to fit more discs (I assume I need an additional card in the other case too)... the Silverstone solution looks good... BUT can not get hold of it. DO you have any tips on new cards that are available?

[Ford Prefect]

10 hours ago, KTFirst said:

Hi. I am looking for a good (high quality) Mini SAS SFF-8088 to SAS36P SFF-8087 card (to convert my LSIBroadcom SAS 9305-24iPCIe 3.0 x8) to expansion to one external case to fit more discs

The silverstone SA022 product is not a card (a card being an active component, like a HBA) but just a converter/adapter.

 

10 hours ago, KTFirst said:

(I assume I need an additional card in the other case too)...

That depends on the type of enclosure. A DAS enclosure comes with external SFF8088 port(s) that is/are directly connected, internally to the drives backplane.

For a DIY enclosure, yes.

 

10 hours ago, KTFirst said:

the Silverstone solution looks good... BUT can not get hold of it. DO you have any tips on new cards that are available?

As said, this is just an adapter. Google finds this: https://www.amazon.de/CableDeconn-SFF-8088-SFF-8087-adapter-bracket/dp/B00PRXOQFA as first match ... there are others on amazon or the bay and in these days, availability may be different, depending on your part of the world.