Tower / shares randomly going invisible


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Hi, 

 

I want to access some of my shares during the day. I do that by going to the Windows explorer and navigating to the "Network" tab. Recently I started noticing that my Unraid system keeps disappearing there. 

 

I need to login to Unraid, go to the shares and stop sharing one, then sharing it again. The moment Unraid says "starting services" or "stopping services", I can see the whole tower again in Windows explorer. 

 

I get the feeling that the services that enable me to see my shares on the network, randomly stop working. I am running 6.10-RC2. Also had this problem in RC1. Is that a bug or a new setting somewhere?

 

 

tower-diagnostics-20211115-1121.zip

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  • 2 weeks later...

Is your server on 24x7?

 

Is your server the Local Master (also called the Master Browser)?     Install the  Dynamix Local Master   plugin to determine which computer is the Local Master.

 

Having an Unraid server be the Local Master often solves this kind of problem.   (It can take more than a half hour for changes/updates to the SMB services to propagate through a SMB network.) 

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2 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

Is your server on 24x7?

 

Is your server the Local Master (also called the Master Browser)?     Install the  Dynamix Local Master   plugin to determine which computer is the Local Master.

 

Having an Unraid server be the Local Master often solves this kind of problem.   (It can take more than a half hour for changes/updates to the SMB services to propagate through a SMB network.) 

My server is always online. It runs multiple virtual machines. The only physical machines in the house, are 2 laptops from work. Would that cause problems? 

 

I have never heard of a "Master" server. I have downloaded the plugin you mentioned. The plugin says that it will display a Yoda logo if my server is the local master. I can't find that logo anywhere. Does that mean that something else on my network is fighting with Unraid?

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21 minutes ago, workermaster said:

I have never heard of a "Master" server.

 

Read here for that term:

      https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-server-2003/cc737661(v=ws.10)?redirectedfrom=MSDN

 

21 minutes ago, workermaster said:

I have downloaded the plugin you mentioned. The plugin says that it will display a Yoda logo if my server is the local master. I can't find that logo anywhere.

 

It does not display in upper right hand corner in the recent releases of Unraid.  You can find out which computer is the Local Master by going to

       Settings   >>>   Network Settings    >>>   SMB    >>>  Workgroup Settings 

 

27 minutes ago, workermaster said:

Does that mean that something else on my network is fighting with Unraid?

 

IF you read the Microsoft article, you will find that any computer can end up the Local Master.  Of the problems is that when a computer joins the network, it must get all of the information about the SBM network.  (I have always suspected that Windows OS remembers the Local Master when it shuts down.  This knowledge helps it when it starts backup...)  Because the polling times are so long, if the newly restarted computer misses detecting one (or more) servers, it can take up to forty minutes to acquire knowledge of it.  (I have observed that my two always-on Unraid servers are always available but often a newly started peer-to-peer client-server is missing initially but it does 'turn-up' eventually...)

 

Double check that all of your computers are assigned to the same workgroup.  (The workgroup name should also be all capital letters..)

 

You can force your Unraid server to always win the Local Master election by adding the following to 'Samba extra configuration:'  

       Settings   >>>   Network Settings    >>>   SMB    >>>  SMB Extras

 

[global]
preferred master = yes
os level = 255

 

I have always maintained that SMB is a 'Kludge' (A cobbled-together system) that mostly works that way it wants to but not always the way we would expect it to behave.  MS has been working on SMB for close to thirty years and I don't expect to see any major changes to improve it!  They are too busy trying to plug the security holes to do that.

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13 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

 

Read here for that term:

      https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-server-2003/cc737661(v=ws.10)?redirectedfrom=MSDN

 

 

It does not display in upper right hand corner in the recent releases of Unraid.  You can find out which computer is the Local Master by going to

       Settings   >>>   Network Settings    >>>   SMB    >>>  Workgroup Settings 

 

 

IF you read the Microsoft article, you will find that any computer can end up the Local Master.  Of the problems is that when a computer joins the network, it must get all of the information about the SBM network.  (I have always suspected that Windows OS remembers the Local Master when it shuts down.  This knowledge helps it when it starts backup...)  Because the polling times are so long, if the newly restarted computer misses detecting one (or more) servers, it can take up to forty minutes to acquire knowledge of it.  (I have observed that my two always-on Unraid servers are always available but often a newly started peer-to-peer client-server is missing initially but it does 'turn-up' eventually...)

 

Double check that all of your computers are assigned to the same workgroup.  (The workgroup name should also be all capital letters..)

 

You can force your Unraid server to always win the Local Master election by adding the following to 'Samba extra configuration:'  

       Settings   >>>   Network Settings    >>>   SMB    >>>  SMB Extras

 

[global]
preferred master = yes
os level = 255

 

I have always maintained that SMB is a 'Kludge' (A cobbled-together system) that mostly works that way it wants to but not always the way we would expect it to behave.  MS has been working on SMB for close to thirty years and I don't expect to see any major changes to improve it!  They are too busy trying to plug the security holes to do that.

Thanks for the link. That is a big page so I will read most of it later. I checked all computers in the house and they are all part of the default workgroup. I never set anything up and they just found everything that was on the network. So I assume that all computers / virtual machines are just looking at everything available on the network. Unraid says:

image.thumb.png.19ef93077b1e98bad0b147d784c400b3.png and all computers also say they are part of "WORKGROUP".

 

I also found Yoda so my Unraid system is the local master. I will check that next time when it goes offline. That could take a few hours or a day. It is always random. If this problem is related to the local master thing, then the next time my shares go invisible, the Yoda logo should be gone. 

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15 minutes ago, workermaster said:

also found Yoda so my Unraid system is the local master. I will check that next time when it goes offline. That could take a few hours or a day. It is always random. If this problem is related to the local master thing, then the next time my shares go invisible, the Yoda logo should be gone. 

 

Actually, on the Settings/Network_settings/SMB/Workgroup_settings, it will actually tell which computer is currently the Local Master even if it is not your Unraid server. 

 

Where the problems can really arise is if there are two Local Masters on your network...   There is a utility that will run on a Windows computer that will find out what any Windows computer finds on the local network.  This tool could be useful in troubleshooting your setup.  You can find it here:

 

     https://scottiestech.info/2009/02/14/how-to-determine-the-master-browser-in-a-windows-workgroup/

 

(I have not downloaded from this site for a long time so do some research on it to make sure that it has not been compromised.)

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1 hour ago, Frank1940 said:

 

Actually, on the Settings/Network_settings/SMB/Workgroup_settings, it will actually tell which computer is currently the Local Master even if it is not your Unraid server. 

 

Where the problems can really arise is if there are two Local Masters on your network...   There is a utility that will run on a Windows computer that will find out what any Windows computer finds on the local network.  This tool could be useful in troubleshooting your setup.  You can find it here:

 

     https://scottiestech.info/2009/02/14/how-to-determine-the-master-browser-in-a-windows-workgroup/

 

(I have not downloaded from this site for a long time so do some research on it to make sure that it has not been compromised.)

It happened again. The shares have gone invisible:

image.thumb.png.a1a400709b6cbb064c76be869430132e.png

But Unraid is still the master browser. I think that means that there is another problem going on in my system. 

I also don't understand why there are 2 displays mentioned there while I do not know them. But They have been there for months. 

 

 

 

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On 11/25/2021 at 11:31 PM, JonathanM said:

What happens if you type \\tower in the top line of the window where it currently says Network?

It took some time for it to happen again since I was trying to get SAM working on my server. It just happened again. I tried it and it then showed me all the shares. Why could that be? Do I need to change a setting somehwere?

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I would guess it is time to refer you to a 'fix' for Windows Explorer.  (MS 'broke' the "Network" section several years back and has never really addressed the issue.  For some folks- it mostly works, for others- it is a constant headache, and for the reminder- it never works.  These latter folks just ignore it!  You seem to be a member of the second group.)  There  is a PDF at the end of the post in the link below.  In it, you will find a set of instructions for "Step1- Fixing the Windows Explorer Issue".   When the server disappears from under 'Network'. you click on it in the 'Network Neighborhood' folder under "This PC" and it will open up and simultaneously appear under 'Network'.   (More like SMB witchcraft---   😏  ) 

 

         https://forums.unraid.net/topic/110580-security-is-not-a-dirty-word-unraid-windows-10-smb-setup/?tab=comments#comment-1009109

 

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