Video stuttering problem -- SMR drives??


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I'm having a consistent problem streaming ripped BluRay videos from my UnRaid setup, and I'm not really sure where to start.  This has been an issue for some time now but seems to be getting worse since installing the latest UnRaid OS.  It has mostly been simple audio dropouts in the past but now the video is stuttering which has made watching movies unacceptably bad.

 

My setup is an Intel i3-2100 dual core box with 8 drives connected via a Cisco switch to a Dune HD player.  UnRaid OS is 6.9.2. 

 

When I copy a movie to the Dune's local HDD and play it from there, it performs flawlessly.  Via the network, however, the stutter happens about every 20-40 seconds (fairly random), corresponding with the dropouts in performance shown on the bottom two graphs:

 

2097449108_movieplaying.thumb.jpg.b5e0e2fa4a6d4d52671b87d60ad3c525.jpg

 

Obviously the Network and Storage graphs are highly correlated, and I'm assuming that the Storage is causing the poor performance, but I' not sure.   

 

For storage, I have a mix of WD and Seagate drives, including two of the Seagate ST8000DM004 8TB drives.   I recently discovered that these are SMR, and I have one as the parity drive (I now realize this is not good), but from what I've read on SMR, it shouldn't be a problem for playback.  (I have a new 8TB CMR drive ordered to replace the parity drive, but I have a feeling that this won't solve my video playback issue.)

 

Thank you for any help or ideas on how I can diagnose this issue.  

 

dashboard.thumb.jpg.d8540badfe23dc08351f0254c153c01c.jpgmain.thumb.jpg.55566f4043a98727a7f743cd7444f7d2.jpg

 

 

 

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Does file allocate at disk4 ? Disk got error not a good sign, but PIC show it in sleep, so I assume the file in disk1.

 

Pls feedback

 

1. Clear the read & write counter, does only file allocate disk have read activity during playback ?

2. Network copy the file from Unraid, what speed got ?

3. Any WiFi in the path ?

Edited by Vr2Io
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3 hours ago, Vr2Io said:

Does file allocate at disk4 ? Disk got error not a good sign, but PIC show it in sleep, so I assume the file in disk1.

 

Pls feedback

 

1. Clear the read & write counter, does only file allocate disk have read activity during playback ?

2. Network copy the file from Unraid, what speed got ?

3. Any WiFi in the path ?

 

Thanks for the help.  Disk4 does have some issues, but I don't believe it is related to this issue.

 

1. Cleared, then played this movie.  All reads with this particular movie coming from disk5 and only that drive.  Zero on all other drives.

2. Network copy of that movie is about 73-74 MB/s.

3. No WiFi in the path for either playing or copying.

 

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1--   Reboot all of the networking equipment-- Routers, switches, etc.  These things are all computer based and reboot will often 'fix' things just as it will with their bigger brothers.

 

2--  Get a Diagnostics file when you are playing a movie with the problem.  Tell us the time period when the problem was occurring. Example: between 6:10 PM and 6:22Pm on Sunday, Jan 2, 2022.    Tools    >>>    Diagnostics     Attach the file in a new post in this thread. 

 

3--  Any writing to Disk 4 during this time?

 

4-- IS this a straight stream of video directly to your Dune player or you transcoding it first?

 

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7 hours ago, cowger said:

1. Cleared, then played this movie.  All reads with this particular movie coming from disk5 and only that drive.  Zero on all other drives.

2. Network copy of that movie is about 73-74 MB/s.

3. No WiFi in the path for either playing or copying.

All indicate positive, problem not likely at Unraid ( I assume you directly playback media by SMB / NFS ).

I also playback in this way from PC / different box players, to handle such loading really a easy job.

 

Pls also check
 

- Network port speed at Dune player was 1Gbps or not.

- Try VLC under PC for network playback.

- Check does abnormal found on network error info.

image.png.2370ad9bb8f180f7423f45f7112481c7.png

 

- I provide a graph FYI, btw it ceiling at ~4.1 MB/s during playback a bluray ISO.

 

image.png.1fcb4a3df538af3c0deb3f7cd7ebef5e.png

 

 

 

 

Edited by Vr2Io
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19 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

1--   Reboot all of the networking equipment-- Routers, switches, etc.  These things are all computer based and reboot will often 'fix' things just as it will with their bigger brothers.

 

2--  Get a Diagnostics file when you are playing a movie with the problem.  Tell us the time period when the problem was occurring. Example: between 6:10 PM and 6:22Pm on Sunday, Jan 2, 2022.    Tools    >>>    Diagnostics     Attach the file in a new post in this thread. 

 

3--  Any writing to Disk 4 during this time?

 

4-- IS this a straight stream of video directly to your Dune player or you transcoding it first?

 

Thank you, Frank.

 

1.  Rebooted everything:  Dune, Cisco network switch, and the UnRaid NAS box.  No apparent change.

 

2. Will attach to next post.

 

3. Not that I can see.  All traffic appears to be just Reads.

 

4. Yes, straight stream of the *.M2TS file to the Dune HD player.

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13 hours ago, Vr2Io said:

All indicate positive, problem not likely at Unraid ( I assume you directly playback media by SMB / NFS ).

I also playback in this way from PC / different box players, to handle such loading really a easy job.

 

Pls also check
 

- Network port speed at Dune player was 1Gbps or not.

- Try VLC under PC for network playback.

- Check does abnormal found on network error info.

image.png.2370ad9bb8f180f7423f45f7112481c7.png

 

 

First, how do I get to the INTERFACE statistics screen above?  I can't find that.

 

Next, I don't know how to tell about the network port speed on Dune.  Today I turned on "experimental 1Gbps" mode on Dune, but that doesn't seem to have had any effect.

 

VLC:  I downloaded VLC on a server attached to the same Cisco switch and played the same movie.  Video was not smooth; I'm assuming that the server was having to do some soft transcoding.  Here's the storage traffic during that time:

1534285970_vlcplayback.jpg.21d72ca568e87bc684f45dfcabdb7216.jpg

 

For comparison, here's the storage traffic during a copy of a different movie from UnRaid to Dune's local HDD.  Note similar dropouts in performance:

1419295026_filecopy.jpg.3b15f591150c6088542cfa6eb100776c.jpg

 

Here's the network traffic during a subsequent play of the same movie right after the VLC play.  Note the significant dropouts:

2021426660_duneplaymovienetwork.jpg.87d0f3dfa3256363ef3136f5bce43cff.jpg

 

And here's the associated storage traffic.  I'm assuming that the NAS box was sourcing the movie from cache, since it just played on VLC 5 minutes before:

1593219649_duneplaymoviestorage.jpg.c9c2f09c6bed6e4ffed5c1e4da5fb84b.jpg

 

And here's storage traffic playing a different movie (to get past the caching issue).  Same (or worse) stuttering problem:

1969178084_movie2playdune.jpg.d19f360d5d5781ace3cb74908fbf1062.jpg

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There are several sequence of entries in your syslog (In the logs folder of the Diagnostics file) that occur periodically:

 

Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]: [2022/01/03 09:49:00.310017,  0] ../../source3/nmbd/nmbd_incomingrequests.c:170(process_name_refresh_request)
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]:   process_name_refresh_request: unicast name registration request received for name MLSERVER<20> from IP 192.168.1.110 on subnet UNICAST_SUBNET.
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]: [2022/01/03 09:49:00.310090,  0] ../../source3/nmbd/nmbd_incomingrequests.c:173(process_name_refresh_request)
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]:   Error - should be sent to WINS server
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]: [2022/01/03 09:49:00.310676,  0] ../../source3/nmbd/nmbd_incomingrequests.c:170(process_name_refresh_request)
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]:   process_name_refresh_request: unicast name registration request received for name MLSERVER<00> from IP 192.168.1.110 on subnet UNICAST_SUBNET.
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]: [2022/01/03 09:49:00.310708,  0] ../../source3/nmbd/nmbd_incomingrequests.c:173(process_name_refresh_request)
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]:   Error - should be sent to WINS server
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]: [2022/01/03 09:49:00.312075,  0] ../../source3/nmbd/nmbd_incomingrequests.c:170(process_name_refresh_request)
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]:   process_name_refresh_request: unicast name registration request received for name WORKGROUP<00> from IP 192.168.1.110 on subnet UNICAST_SUBNET.
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]: [2022/01/03 09:49:00.312107,  0] ../../source3/nmbd/nmbd_incomingrequests.c:173(process_name_refresh_request)
Jan  3 09:49:00 MLData nmbd[7025]:   Error - should be sent to WINS server

 

What is the device associated with the IP address of 192.168.1.110?  Do these times correspond to the times when the problem occurred?

 

In case, you are wondering,  Google search 'WINS server' will provide articles should as this one:

 

       https://www.techtarget.com/searchnetworking/answer/What-is-difference-between-a-WINS-server-and-a-DNS-server

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1 hour ago, Frank1940 said:

What is the device associated with the IP address of 192.168.1.110?  Do these times correspond to the times when the problem occurred?

 

In case, you are wondering,  Google search 'WINS server' will provide articles should as this one:

 

       https://www.techtarget.com/searchnetworking/answer/What-is-difference-between-a-WINS-server-and-a-DNS-server

 

That device is a Windows server, something I purchased a decade ago as part of an overall movie server solution from a company called Cinemar.  It also runs much of my home automation stuff, security cameras, etc.  It is Windows 7, which I realize is ancient, but I haven't upgraded anything for fear of breaking things.  

 

Honestly, the whole "WINS server" thing to me is very confusing.  I'm not a software expert by any means, so if something is broken because of that, I would not be surprised at all.  I will look into the logs and the stuttering events and see if there's a correlation.

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13 minutes ago, cowger said:

 

Honestly, the whole "WINS server" thing to me is very confusing.  I'm not a software expert by any means, so if something is broken because of that, I would not be surprised at all.  I will look into the logs and the stuttering events and see if there's a correlation.

 

Update:  I don't believe that the WINS name registration request is the source of the problem (though it certainly IS a problem).  It is happening on 8-minute intervals, and the stuttering / performance dropouts are more like every 30-45 seconds.

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47 minutes ago, cowger said:

It is happening on 8-minute intervals, and the stuttering / performance dropouts are more like every 30-45 seconds.

 

So this is probably not the cause of the issue...

 

Does your Dune box have a 100Mb/s or 1Gb/s Ethernet?  (You should be able to tell the exact max transfer speed from the lights on either the switcher or the Dune... )  From this statement below, I would tend to believe that it is a 100Mb/s.  (If this is the case, then data has to be buffered in the switch---  The Unraid server is sending out data at 1Gb/s and your Dune box would be getting it at 100Mb/s.  You may have to refer to the respective manuals to find out what the LED lights are indicating.) 

 

3 hours ago, cowger said:

1) ~8:45am (today) to ~9:30am - Copy file from UnRaid NAS to Dune HD local HDD

 

I am not sure of the size of the file you moved but my BluRay iso's transfers (movie only-- ~20GB's) are on the order of 5-6 minutes at 1Gb/s.   You might want to get a better approximation of the transfer speed with a clocked transfer of a file from the Unraid server to the Dune box. 

 

Looking at the Diagnostics file, I see that the server has sent over 25GB's of data with no errors of any type.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

 

Does your Dune box have a 100Mb/s or 1Gb/s Ethernet? 

 

 

 

It is currently connected at 100Mb/s (I confirmed that it's not 1Gb via the Cisco switches lights).  As I mentioned earlier, Dune has a "enable experimental 1Gbit Ethernet support" but that doesn't seem to work:

options.thumb.jpg.8a4f547fd7fabcb9332df359ab68a505.jpg

This Dune box is ~10 years old and perhaps their LAN port just can't handle 1Gb.  (Their documentation says nothing more than that the RJ45 connector on the rear panel is their LAN port.)

 

I'm a little confused, however... isn't 100Mb/s fast enough to keep up with streaming a 1080p movie?  

 

I do agree that it's getting buffered within the switch... could that buffering algorithm be part of the problem?

 

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8 minutes ago, itimpi said:

It is not the resolution of the movie that matters, but the bit rate for a given file.  Have you checked the bit rate of the file(s).

 

Got it, thank you.  I just checked the "total bitrate" for this problem movie ("Rio", if it matters), and it's 36.8 Mbps. 

 

What's the effective "max" useable bitrate that can reliably go across a 100Mbps interface?

 

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Okay, so with my new understanding of bitrate, I searched through my various movies and found one with a bitrate of 43Mbps (which seems to be one of the highest in my library).

 

Along with trying to play that file, I also was curious about the "Fast SMB access" setting within Dune: 

options.thumb.jpg.5e2957488304c70274f21955e81644b3.jpg

I have always kept that disabled, as enabling it comes with a strong warning about "you shouldn't do this if you don't know what you're doing" (which I clearly don't!).  Curious, though, I tried enabling it... with good results:

 

1622277329_theisland.jpg.e599fba7265aee7da9f49801d480285c.jpg

 

The cluster of network traffic above 14:42 is with "Fast SMB access" enabled.  The right cluster is with it disabled.  And video playback is correspondingly great with it enabled and unwatchable with it disabled.

 

So, I will now enable this, needless to say.  Does anyone know what "Fast SMB access" might mean?  As mentioned previously, their documentation is pretty poor.

 

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100Mb/s should handle any 1080 bit rate material.  (I believe 50Mb/s is the max 'allowable' bit rate for BluRay.)   That, of course, assumes that the effective transfer rate is 100Mb/s-- that actually works out to be about 10.8MB/s.  You can come close to that rate if everything is optimized for a fast transfer.  OS file system overhead are the major impediment to achieving the "theoretical".)

 

That is why you want to run a timed test on transfer speed of a big file (say, a 25GB .M2TS file) to the Dune player.  Also check to see if you have a problem on a standard Windows 10 computer playing an .M2TS from your Unraid server using the VLC Media player. (A free download and one every audio/video enthusiast should have as it will play virtually any file format!)

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4 minutes ago, cowger said:

I have always kept that disabled, as enabling it comes with a strong warning about "you shouldn't do this if you don't know what you're doing" (which I clearly don't!).  Curious, though, I tried enabling it... with good results:

SMB has several versions (SMBv1, SMBv2, and SMBv3) There is a big difference between the earliest versions and the later ones as far as the reduction of Protocol overhead required.  And the later versions sometimes had problems with systems that only supported the earlier ones back at the time of transition.  These were usually resolved over the years.  I can recall if you said how old your Dune box was but I have Netgear NTV-550 which still requires SMBv1 which is still supported by Unraid.  (MS has turned SMBv1 off but if you know how, you can still turn it on...)

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12 minutes ago, cowger said:

Okay, so with my new understanding of bitrate, I searched through my various movies and found one with a bitrate of 43Mbps (which seems to be one of the highest in my library).

 

Along with trying to play that file, I also was curious about the "Fast SMB access" setting within Dune: 

options.thumb.jpg.5e2957488304c70274f21955e81644b3.jpg

I have always kept that disabled, as enabling it comes with a strong warning about "you shouldn't do this if you don't know what you're doing" (which I clearly don't!).  Curious, though, I tried enabling it... with good results:

 

1622277329_theisland.jpg.e599fba7265aee7da9f49801d480285c.jpg

 

The cluster of network traffic above 14:42 is with "Fast SMB access" enabled.  The right cluster is with it disabled.  And video playback is correspondingly great with it enabled and unwatchable with it disabled.

 

So, I will now enable this, needless to say.  Does anyone know what "Fast SMB access" might mean?  As mentioned previously, their documentation is pretty poor.

 

 

I have been using Dune media players since 2009, and they work wonderfully.

The older models had only fast ethernet (100Mbps) connection. Dune uses their specific algorithm to read files from SMB, this is used when you enable “fast smb access”. Btw this setting does not exist anymore in nwer versions, which are optimised by default.

 

The graphic shows a constant reading (left) vs a lot of fluctuation (right), the latter part explains your stuttering.

 

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10 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

SMB has several versions (SMBv1, SMBv2, and SMBv3) There is a big difference between the earliest versions and the later ones as far as the reduction of Protocol overhead required.  And the later versions sometimes had problems with systems that only supported the earlier ones back at the time of transition.  These were usually resolved over the years.  I can recall if you said how old your Dune box was but I have Netgear NTV-550 which still requires SMBv1 which is still supported by Unraid.  (MS has turned SMBv1 off but if you know how, you can still turn it on...)

 

Got it, thank you very much, Frank, for getting me through this!!

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8 minutes ago, bonienl said:

 

I have been using Dune media players since 2009, and they work wonderfully.

The older models had only fast ethernet (100Mbps) connection. Dune uses their specific algorithm to read files from SMB, this is used when you enable “fast smb access”. Btw this setting does not exist anymore in nwer versions, which are optimised by default.

 

The graphic shows a constant reading (left) vs a lot of fluctuation (right), the latter part explains your stuttering.

 

 

Great, this is exactly what I was looking to understand.  Thank you!!

 

It seems like this is really a necessary feature to enable.  I wonder why they label this "not recommended":

 

confirmation.thumb.jpg.4d08c3c3900323fa497775e2ff5ee3f9.jpg

 

Edited by cowger
add warning picture
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  • 8 months later...

If I may, I'd like to resurrect this thread as one of the problems listed above has yet to be resolved.

 

I have the following configuration:

192.168.1.110 - "MLSERVER", a Windows 10 server running some automation software from Cinemar (now Allonis)

192.168.1.111 - "MLDATA", running UnRaid 6.10.3.

192.168.1.112 - Dune HD video player

All connected through a Cisco switch

 

I'm having occasional access issues where my UnRaid machine ("MLDATA") disappears for short periods of time from both MLSERVER and the Dune box.  

 

I continue to receive these error messages on 8-minute intervals and am not sure if this is the root cause or not:

Sep 15 07:45:34 MLData nmbd[2637]: [2022/09/15 07:45:34.432049,  0] ../../source3/nmbd/nmbd_incomingrequests.c:173(process_name_refresh_request)
Sep 15 07:45:34 MLData nmbd[2637]:   Error - should be sent to WINS server
Sep 15 07:45:34 MLData nmbd[2637]: [2022/09/15 07:45:34.440577,  0] ../../source3/nmbd/nmbd_incomingrequests.c:170(process_name_refresh_request)
Sep 15 07:45:34 MLData nmbd[2637]:   process_name_refresh_request: unicast name registration request received for name MLSERVER<20> from IP 192.168.1.110 on subnet UNICAST_SUBNET.

 

MLDATA is set as the Local Master Browser.  From that, I would think that receiving a "process_name_refresh_request" from the Windows machine would be expected, but obviously that is not the case.  I clearly don't understand WINS and why it's necessary.  From googling it, it seems to be a now outdated protocol relating to name resolution.  Is it necessary?  One of the functions of this NAS box is to serve movies up to my Dune box via SMB... is WINS a necessary part of that protocol?

 

Attaching a couple of log files in case that helps.

 

Thank you!

 

 

mldata-diagnostics-20220911-1040.zip syslog

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Update:  I found that WINS was enabled on my Windows server, pointing at my NAS box (192.168.1.111).  I have no idea why this was there or if it's needed.  In any case, I deleted that WINS server address from the TCP/IP configuration on the Windows server and that seems to have stopped that error message.  Time will tell if other things now stop working as a result of this... hopefully not...

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