Goliath: My Norco RPC-4224 build.

[nemloc]

Out of curiousity, what front ends do you use for viewing with this monster?

[Johnm]

A slight update. This box is still running flawless.. and almost totally silent.

 

I changed my mind and decided an SSD for Cache is the way to go for me.

 

SEE here for background

 

 

I know it will confuse people. Goliath is actually in my ESXi box now and this box became Spartacus...

I'll leave the thread entitled "Goliath" is just to not confuse people.... more then i have.. lol

 

Current config,

 

Parity:

1x 2TB LP

Data drives:

11x 2TB LP

5x 1.5TB LP

Cache:

1x 500GB WD 7200 RPM

 

29.5TB usable.

 

 

the SSD cache is actually in the ESXi box.

unraid in ESXi is.

Parity:

1x 3TB LP

Data drives:

12x 3TB LP

Cache:

120GB SSD

36TB usable

 

 

Testing file copies to Goliath's cache drive from ESXi guest (running from SSD also).

moving gigs in seconds..

[siamsquare]

Yo John,

 

Thanks alot for all the info. It helped choosing my own system which is a Norco 4224, X9SCM-F, 8 gigs ram and intel E-1230

Just received my case but having trouble booting from my USB stick which is a Sandisk Cruzer Micro Skin 8GB.

I've put it in the internal USB header and bios is set to Boot from that drive.

Tried a dozen ways to format the sucka but it doesn't boot!

Am I doing something wrong?

Could use some help.

 

gr33tz

 

[Johnm]

Did you follow the setup instructions for unRAID?

 

format the flash drive in windows (I think i used fat32).

extract the unraid setup files to the flash (preserving folder structure).

run the bat file to put a boot sector on the flash.

 

i am using a sandisk blade for my unraid mini without any issues. if yours has a U3 partition, you might want to blow it out.

[prostuff1]

i am using a sandisk blade for my unraid mini without any issues. if yours has a U3 partition, you might want to blow it out.

U3 is more than likely what is causing the problems.  sandisk has a removal tool I believe that you will have to run to remove it completely.

[siamsquare]

Yo,

 

Dunno whats U3 partition? Anyways I managed to get it to boot when I enter setup and under exit options force boot the cruzer, but when I reboot it's back to square 1!

Anyways will look into that U3. Am now running memtest, the only thing happening is I can see  a red dot blinking next to Memtest x86 v4.10..any idea how long that takes?

 

gr33tz

 

EDIT: Seems the U3 removal tool and the syslinux.exe -m  did the trick! So my guess is it's solved!

[siamsquare]

Yo,

 

Do I need to put cooling paste between the intel E-1230 and its stockcooler?

Couldn't find anything in the intels' manual!

 

thanks!

[gtaylor]

Do I need to put cooling paste between the intel E-1230 and its stockcooler?

 

The Intel stock cooler comes with a thermal pad so you don't need to use thermal paste. The thermal pad is the grey substance you can see on the bottom of the cooler.

[smakovits]

do you still get sustained ~90MB writes/network copies to your unraid?

[Johnm]

In most cases I am getting better then that. the 80-90MB/s was with a spinner cache drive. i have since moved to SSD.

 

with a SATA2 SSD, i got about 90MB/s but no lag if the mover is running at the same time.

with a Sata3 SSD I am getting full wire speed.

 

I have a few shares that do not use cache. The shares are on older green drives and are getting 30-20MB/s as the drives are getting to 90% full.

 

With the  hard drive shortage we are experiencing right now, i am shoving older 500GB - 1.5 TB drives i had in the junk pile into this box. the older drives are defiantly hurting performance.

 

of course your mileage will vary and your source drive speed will contribute to your total speed limit.

 

 

 

[publicENEMY]

Greetings Johnm. Im building an unraid server using norco rpc 4220 case and intel lga 1155. I appreciate it if you could provide me some recommendation.

 

Right now im placing order to norco. the items that i would like to purchase from norco are

1. rpc 4220

2. 120mm fan wall bracket

3. 4 x NORCO C-SFF8087-D SFF-8087 to SFF-8087 Internal Multilane SAS Cable

4. 2 x NORCO C-SFF8087-4S Discrete to SFF-8087 (Reverse breakout) Cable

5. 2 x NORCO C-P1T7 4Pin Molex 1 Male to 7 Female Power Extension Splitter

 

I also placing order to supermicro. the items that i like to purchase from supermicro are

1. SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C204 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard

2. 2x SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8

 

few qs

1. Im thinking intel g620. What are there reason for you to choose 13 2100?

2. should i purchase IBM M1015 (LSI 9220-8i)? My target max storage is 20hdd. you didnt mention this in your sig.

3. do i need to buy 2 x Monoprice SFF-8087 1M cable. you said the norco one was to short for the M1015. which one?

4. why supermicro. i was thinking to go with asus mb with intel h61 chipset

 

thank you

[Johnm]

Dear Mister Enemy,

 

LOL! sorry. it  made me laugh saying that..

 

real quick..

 

The norco cables ARE to short for the m1015's i think you need 1M or longer..

I would get all your cables from monoprice if you are placing an order there. that should save you like $40

 

I do believe the g620 would work. It was not an option when I got my board. double check supermicro's website. also, i got the I3 on promo at microcenter for $99. that was cheap at that time.

 

I am actually running a factory sample/demo board so it was one of the first off the assembly line. hence why it was cheap. it was listed as "open box japan sample" on newegg and as "new product".

 

I would actually recommend against the C-P1T7 power splitter, unless it is your only option. I got a pile of them for free (almost, i bought one and got 5). I find them to be very poorly made. Very recently in my atlas thread, I made a suggestion for an alternate cable that looks very promising and about the same price for much better quality (heavier duty wires and sheathed). it has less connectors so you need more then one, but I would buy that one if i had to build again.

 

I am running 3 MV8's and 3 M1015's. they both work just fine. The m1015 will not work with the 4X series. you need to run Beta versions. The mv8 works in all versions (except beta 12(a)). the m1015 also needs to be reflashed to work in unraid. It can be picky about the board you flash it on (as of right now, the x9 do not work to flash it to my knowledge).

 

I went with the supermicro because we have 100's of them at work in the datacenter.  they are just solid boards that dont fail. At least the server boards, the desktop boards are not all that great in my opinion. Also I wanted the IPMI feature. I have 7 supermicro boards at home. it is so much simpler to just run power and cat6 to each box and nothing else and then have full remote control.

 

I hope that helps..

 

 

Edit:

I should point out that the m1015's are a faster card and need an 8x slot. they were also a much better deal when they were selling for $65 shipped. the price has been going up as people are catching on to them.

 

[WeeboTech]

Dear publicENEMY,

.... Don't believe the hype ....   

 

LOL, could not resist!

[luca2]

Hi John, i will build a copy of your´s Goliath. I run Unraid too and the main use is Media Hosting.  I have a couple of questions it would be great you could answer.

0) how do you monitor disk temps + fans?

1) i can see in your pics the (2) Supermicro 8-Port SAS/SATA Card (AOC-SAS2LP-MV8). I am a newbie, so i am trying to understand your setup. You don´t use any of the MB ports, you only use the ports of the 2 Supermicro 8-Port SAS/SATA Card, each providing 8 ports, so you have 16 hdds attached to them. You also have (1) IBM ServeRAID M1015 LSI9220-8i 46M0861, where you have attached the remaining 8 HDDs to sum up the total 24 HDDs. Is this right (because I cannot see in the pics the IBM M1015)?

2)

3) what is the reason for 1  IBM M1015 and not for another Supermicro 8-Port SAS/SATA (3 in total instead of 2)?

3) regarding IBM ServeRAID M1015, when you say :"1 x IBM M1015 (LSI 9220-8i) Flashed with IT firmware $75 off Ebay" what do you mean with flashed with IT firmware. I searched ebay and found: "You have to specify in your notes how you want to get the controller:

- programmed with the latest available LSI 9240-8i firmware;

- cross-flashed with the latest available LSI "IT" firmware  (for LSI 9210-8i)"

What is the difference between both options? Which way should I go?

Rgds.

 

 

 

 

[Johnm]

Hi John, i will build a copy of your´s Goliath. I run Unraid too and the main use is Media Hosting.  I have a couple of questions it would be great you could answer.

0) how do you monitor disk temps + fans?

With both the unRAID web console and the overheat script in unMENU

 

1) i can see in your pics the (2) Supermicro 8-Port SAS/SATA Card (AOC-SAS2LP-MV8). I am a newbie, so i am trying to understand your setup. You don´t use any of the MB ports, you only use the ports of the 2 Supermicro 8-Port SAS/SATA Card, each providing 8 ports, so you have 16 hdds attached to them. You also have (1) IBM ServeRAID M1015 LSI9220-8i 46M0861, where you have attached the remaining 8 HDDs to sum up the total 24 HDDs. Is this right (because I cannot see in the pics the IBM M1015)?

I have Changed this Build around many times. You can use either the SASLP-MV8 or the M1015's. I have used both in this box in several combinations. Right now i believe I have 2x SASLP-MV8 (or was it 2x M1015's? i only boot this box  once every two weeks to run backups. Atlas is my primary now) and the 6 Motherboard ports in use for a total of 22 drives. If i need the other 2 drive bays, I'll probably add a cheap 2 port PCIe SATA card (or use a spare HBA from my parts bin, that would be overkill.).

 

I have used this box for testing Betas with different cards. in the end, you only need 2 HBA Cards. You can choose what ever card(s) you prefer. Again, since you are fairly new to this, I would recommend the MV8's. they are solid performers and have no compatibility isses with unRAID and require no extra flashing. They work right out of the box.

the motherboard SATA ports should be the fastest ports. use those for the Parity and Cache drives, then 4 other drives. for the last  2 ports, there are many options, but unraid wont support them inside the array.

 

2)

Err?

 

3) what is the reason for 1  IBM M1015 and not for another Supermicro 8-Port SAS/SATA (3 in total instead of 2)?

I already had had them laying arround.. techically the m1015's are faster for parity checks and cheaper, but a pain to flash if you don't have a  compatible motherboard to flash them. stick with the mv8 if you're not sure, the speed difference is not that much

 

3) regarding IBM ServeRAID M1015, when you say :"1 x IBM M1015 (LSI 9220-8i) Flashed with IT firmware $75 off Ebay" what do you mean with flashed with IT firmware. I searched ebay and found: "You have to specify in your notes how you want to get the controller:

- programmed with the latest available LSI 9240-8i firmware;

- cross-flashed with the latest available LSI "IT" firmware  (for LSI 9210-8i)"

What is the difference between both options? Which way should I go?

Rgds.

see this thread here. http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=12767.0 it explains the difference. but in general you need to use LSI IT mode for unRAID or ESXi.

[marcusone]

[m1015] but in general you need to use LSI IT mode for unRAID or ESXi.

 

IR mode works with unraid - I haven't tried IR mode in ESXi yet.

[Johnm]

[m1015] but in general you need to use LSI IT mode for unRAID or ESXi.

 

IR mode works with unraid - I haven't tried IR mode in ESXi yet.

 

He was just using it for a vanilla unraid HBA.  so IT mode is preferred.

 

but to answer your question...

IR mode works for an ESXi datastore also.  If you have several SSD's, you can put them in RAID0, RAID1 or Raid10

the lack of controller RAM with SSD's is actually better then controllers with RAM performance wise. or so they say...

[luca2]

Hi, John/Marcus I just wanted to thank you for the help provided. Now I now the 2 options I have. Rgds.

 

[publicENEMY]

I would actually recommend against the C-P1T7 power splitter, unless it is your only option. I got a pile of them for free (almost, i bought one and got 5). I find them to be very poorly made. Very recently in my atlas thread, I made a suggestion for an alternate cable that looks very promising and about the same price for much better quality (heavier duty wires and sheathed). it has less connectors so you need more then one, but I would buy that one if i had to build again.

 

Hi Johnm

 

I cant find C-P1T7 in my country. Local norco reseller doesnt sell that item. Since you got a pile of em and you dont need em(hopefully), could you send them to me(i pay for the postage) if not for free, for a price?

 

By the way, what is the minimal psu for 22 hdd unraid server(im using norco 4220)

 

thanks.

[publicENEMY]

Hi,

 

Few questions. Im using 2 units of saslp-mv8 and x9scm

 

1. Can i use 3tb parity drive on on-board sata so that i can use 3tb data drives?

2. What is the best/optimal cache drive? The biggest single file transfer is +-50gb bluray iso. Im thinking of intel 320 80gb sata 2 drive for its 5 years warranty. intel sata 3 is 3 years warranty. Are there any better options?

3. Can i run full slackware installation with unraid on usb drive?

4. Are there any benefits having more than 4gb ram? From unraid faq, 4gb ram is max supported.

 

thanks.

[Johnm]

I would actually recommend against the C-P1T7 power splitter, unless it is your only option. I got a pile of them for free (almost, i bought one and got 5). I find them to be very poorly made. Very recently in my atlas thread, I made a suggestion for an alternate cable that looks very promising and about the same price for much better quality (heavier duty wires and sheathed). it has less connectors so you need more then one, but I would buy that one if i had to build again.

 

Hi Johnm

 

I cant find C-P1T7 in my country. Local norco reseller doesnt sell that item. Since you got a pile of em and you dont need em(hopefully), could you send them to me(i pay for the postage) if not for free, for a price?

 

By the way, what is the minimal psu for 22 hdd unraid server(im using norco 4220)

 

thanks.

 

I am actually using all of my splitters, I have 3 RPC-4224's and i put 2 in each. you only need 1, but i was having issues that might have been  power related. so , i doubled up on them in each box. (it was not power related in the end)

 

for a PSU for a 22 drive box...

that really depends on to many factors. the type of drives, the motherboard/cpu combo, a high end video card.. etc..

for my build of all green drives, I could possibly get away with a 650w. but it is not worth risking it. over time PSU's loose power and reliability. there is also a sweet spot on each PSU for where it is most efficient drawing power. not all PSU's are created the same. Make sure it is single rail PSU with a high Amperage.

 

I personally went with a gold certified 750W. if you are running similar equipment that might work for you. if you are using 7200 RPM drives or a board that draws more power, you might need an 850W or better.

 

a more powerful PSU is better then to small. I know i don't want to replace my PSU in the next few years, i went with name brand and large enough for the biggest build I could make.

I used to HATE paying a fortune for my PSU's, but I have learned the hard way, you want a very stable PSU because that can cause data loss if you are under powered or have un-clean power.

It can also be hard to troubleshoot power issues. it is worth the few extra bucks for the peace of mind.

I would also consider a UPS too.

 

Hi,

 

Few questions. Im using 2 units of saslp-mv8 and x9scm

 

1. Can i use 3tb parity drive on on-board sata so that i can use 3tb data drives?

2. What is the best/optimal cache drive? The biggest single file transfer is +-50gb bluray iso. Im thinking of intel 320 80gb sata 2 drive for its 5 years warranty. intel sata 3 is 3 years warranty. Are there any better options?

3. Can i run full slackware installation with unraid on usb drive?

4. Are there any benefits having more than 4gb ram? From unraid faq, 4gb ram is max supported.

 

thanks.

1. absolutely!

2. that answer varies with your needs. I have a 120 GB SSD in one unraid box and none in the other. (I had a 1.5TB 7200 RPM drive, but i needed it. Also, box #2 is only back ups, no need to cache that).

3. I honestly have no clue. sorry.

4. unraid supports more then 4GB ram. if you are running add-ons, it will come in handy. linux by default uses any free RAM as cache so you gain that also. Ram is cheap right now, I would buy the 8GB if it is only slightly more then  the 4GB. you never know what your future brings, you might want to use this Mobo for a windows server and need more ram in a few years when it is very expensive.

[publicENEMY]

Thank you very much for spending the time to answer my questions.

 

Much appreciated.

[Johnm]

i guess i never answered #2. you might find any newer 7200RPM drive and some newer 5400rpm drives make good cache drives.

I would not use an older drive or a used drive though.

 

I think the 60GB sdd would be to small for me. but if your copying 50GB at once. it would come in handy, that is for sure. some days i fill my 120 and some days i hardly touch it.

another bonus of an SSD cache is that you dont have to wait for it to spin up, it is always ready to write/read.

 

some people like to use a cache drive the size of their parity drive. that way if any drive fails, they can use the cache drive for the spare. this way they always  have a spare drive ready to go.

[publicENEMY]

Ive been rethinking about using ssd for cache drive.

 

the ssd benefit over hdd cache drive is

1. faster write speed

2. thats it. faster write speed. nothing more.

 

considering that,

1. my unraid is mostly use as a read often, write seldom

2. writing speed preformance is hardly critical. when i write something, i usually doest not wait and left the pc to do its task.

3. if im using my cache drive as download drive, then ssd speed is overkill. my download speed hardly saturate sata bandwidth

4. when 1 drive fails(or failing), it is critical to replace the drive asap(before other drive fails). replacing a drive require the new drive to be preclear and usually this takes about one day per drive. maybe im mistaken, but does the server have to be offline for pre celaring job? by having a hdd, i can quickly replace the failing drive and minimize the risk of having 2 drive fail simultaneously and lost 2 drives of data and i can delay the preclearing job/buying a new hd/waiting for new hd to arrive.

 

based on these justifications, im thinking maybe its better to use hdd with same spec for data hdd (5400rpm, green) for cache drive. or it is better to use fast hd for cache and when data drive fails, use the cache drive as temporary data drive. when new data drive arrived and pre cleared, swap the data from temporary data drive to new data drive and use the cache drive back as cache drive.

 

i always look for an optimal solution for a specific use case. Any thoughts?

 

Thanks Johnm. Youve been very helpful to me and others.

[Johnm]

SDD advantages.

FAST

COOL (no heat)

No spin-up lag (always ready)

low electricity use.

can write from more then one pc at the same time at full speed

can write at full speed while mover is running.

 

SDD disadvantages.

expensive

small

can not be used for a data drive (it can but parity will  negate all speed)

 

---

 

if you do not need the speed, then by all means, don't do it.

 

for my back up server. i do not use a cache drive. i get about 45MB/s to the server.

I tend to copy 100's of gigs  while doing a back up.

the mover could take all day to run and ruin my performance if that happens...

I was also happy with a mechanical cache drive when I had it. i just like the SSD performance better and money is good for me right now so i spent a little extra.

 

 

the idea of using a mechanical drive that is the size of your parity drive is this..

if you have a drive die. run the mover scrip to get your data off of it.

then unasign it as a cache drive and assign it as a rebuild drive.

when you get a new drive or your RMA back, make the new drive the new cache drive.