Advice on possible build.... WHS convert....

[mnemonic222000]

Everyone,

 

I am to a WHS "convert" after running into a number of limitations and frustrations with WHS, I luckily found unRAID. I am using my old WHS server as my unRAID box and am having great results, however I need something a little more efficient.  

 

My WHS experience led me to throw a TON of hardware at my stuttering issues; server quality MB, Xeon L3360 processor, lots of RAM, Intel server NIC, enterprise HDD, etc.  None of these fixed the DE issue which caused an unbearable stutter on 1080P content and only added to my electric bill.

 

I would like to move to an i3 Sandy Bridge solution for its power/efficiency ratio, but am nervous to downgrade hardware and have the stuttering issue crop up again.  I have searched and searched, read and read, and know that I am going to hear plenty of "you don't need a ton of power to stream", however I am gun shy with my previous experience and just need a little more detailed reinforcement.

 

My needs are fairly simple and pedestrian.  I just need a large, bullet proof storage array that can provide 2-3 Bluray ISO streams to my Windows Media Centers.  Needless to say WAF is high on the list, as well as having 3 boys that LOVE to watch movies when they are allowed.  So stuttering, lag, and inconsistent results need to be minimal.  As I am a Linux IDIOT, I will still keep a normal full time Windows machine in place for "other" server needs based on my comfort level.

 

So long story short here is my existing build and what my proposed build would transition to, let me know what you think... (I have listed a few options on the CPU, both me being anal and overspec'ing and others based on what I have read on the board)

 

Motherboard

 

Current: ASUS P5BV-C LGA 775 Intel 3200 ATX Intel Xeon Server Motherboard

Planned: SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C204 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard (only 1155 board with video and "compatible" with unRAID that I have found)

 

Processor

 

Current:  Intel Xeon L3360 Yorkfield 2.83GHz 12MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Quad-Core Server Processor

Server Quality: Intel Xeon E3-1220 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 80W Quad-Core Server (might not decrease my energy footprint 80w vs 65w TDP)

Consumer Quality 1: Intel Core i5-2400S Sandy Bridge 2.5GHz (3.3GHz Turbo Boost) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 65W Quad-Core Desktop Processor (know its enough, but is it too much)

Consumer Quality 2: Intel Core i3-2120 Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz 2 x 256KB L2 Cache 3MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor (have one in a HTPC and am impressed, but is it enough)

Consumer Quality 3: Intel Core i3-2100T Sandy Bridge 2.5GHz 2 x 256KB L2 Cache 3MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 35W Dual-Core Desktop Processor (like the 35W TDP, but is it enough horsepower)

 

If you can't tell this is where I am struggling!

 

RAM

 

Current: Crucial 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Server Memory

Planned: Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Server Memory

 

SATA Controller

 

Current: SUPERMICRO AOC-SAT2-MV8 64-bit PCI-X133MHz SATA Controller Card

Planned: SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI Express x4 Low Profile SAS SAS RAID Controller (improved throughput from existing from my reading)

 

I will be keeping my NIC, power supply, case and drive cages

 

NIC:  Intel EXPI9400PT 10/ 100/ 1000Mbps PCI-Express Gigabit Copper Connection for Servers

Power Supply:  ENERMAX PRO82+ EPR525AWT 525W ATX12V Ver.2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE (may upgrade to 80 GOLD?)

Case: iStarUSA Storm Series D-400 (sure 20 drives would be AWESOME, but I really don't need it... Remember I said need not want!)

Drive Cages: iStarUSA BPU-350SATA 3x5.25" to 5x3.5" SAS/SATA 6.0 Gb/s Hot-Swap Cage x 2

 

I will be replacing my hard drives as necessary, I really want to get to all server class HDD, but I am really struggling with the cost/benefit of it.  Here is what I currently have

 

Parity: WDC_WD2001FASS - WD Black 2 TB

Drive 1: WDC_WD2003FYYS - WD RE4 2 TB

Drive 2: WDC_WD20EADS

Drive 3: WDC_WD20EADS

Drive 4: WDC_WD2002FYPS - WD RE4-GP 2 TB (just precleared and installed to replace failed WD20EADS)

Drive 5: WDC_WD20EADS

Drive 6: WDC_WD20EADS (will be installed once I receive the RMA from the failed drive 4 listed above)

Disk 7: TDB

Disk 8: TDB

Disk 9: TDB (moving to SSD Cache will free up drive bay)

Cache: ST3500630AS - Seagate 7200.11 500 GB (was the fastest drive I had left over from other items) to be replaced by Intel 510 120GB SATA III in new build

 

So based on board experience what should I choose?  And if you have attempted to stream bluray ISOs with similar specs how have you fared?  Also have you been successful doing so from more than 1 stream?

 

I look forward to your response.

[neilt0]

You do NOT need exotic hardware or 7200rpm drives to stream multiple Blu-ray discs from unRAID.

 

I had no problems streaming 4 full Blu-ray discs simultaneously to 3 different machines.

 

Here are my tests using my 2006 vintage setup: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=9746.0

 

ETA: If you want to stream multiple Blu-ray streams from the same drive, you may have issues with 5400rpm drives. Even a 7200rpm drive may not do 3 streams as there may be too much seeking. I'd try it out on your existing hardware using the free version of unRAID and two drives.

[mnemonic222000]

neilt0,

 

Thanks for the reply.  I had read that exact post about your experiences previously and it happens to be one of the thing I have been hanging my system change on (no pressure).  One thing I noticed when I just re-read the post that may explain a couple of slight stutters I have had in my own unRAID testing is from John about controller cards playing a part.  Up until recently, I had not considered my AOC-SAT2 as a weak link, but I have read a number of posts explaining that it doesn't supply the bandwidth the AOC-SASLP can.

 

I already own unRAID Pro and have been conducting tons of test variations.  And aside from a few slight stutters here and there, all is well, so I know my current equipment is up to the task (may swap out to the AOC-SASLP first for more testing).  Again, I am just leery of creating problems that don't now exist.  I have experienced similar results in my testing with number of streams from the same drive.  I am trying to formulate a distribution plan for my movies across the physical discs to eliminate some of the possible issues in the future, but that will require A LOT of file moving, etc.

 

Thanks again for the feedback and I look forward to more from the board!

 

TC

[Johnm]

Tyler,

 

I just saw your PM.

 

Your proposed build looks very similar to my existing build. I think My build is a very strong build for my use. In fact it is overkill for unRAID

 

My build fast to get files onto it with the Cache drive and fast to get files off of it.

I have streamed 3 1080p movies simultaneously. but not necessary from the same drive. I did not look into the drive source.

I do know that when the mover is moving Blu Ray rips into the array from the cache drive, It can get a little laggy. I accidentally put 1.5TB on the cache drive and it took forever to move it.

 

Last night i ran a parity check to try for level 1 cert. I forgot to tell other people in the house of this and they streamed HD movies with no stuttering or dropped frames during the parrity test.

 

But.. you already have a decent server IMO.

 

Looking at Your existing hardware,

I think that what you have is quite fine. Assuming your SATA cards are in PCI-X slots, they might actually be faster per channel then the MV8's by a few megs.

 

How do you stream the media? I use XBMC, that basically just  reads the data off an smb share as if it was copying the file. No transcoding needed. I find it hard to believe that this I3 build would seriously outperform that Xeon build.

 

Are you wired to the client or wireless? are they gigabit if wired? Your bottleneck might be outside your server.

 

What format are your source files? are they true blueray ISO or are they MKV rips?

 

as far as commercial hard drives VS  Green drives.. the green drives are fine for  what you need. as long as you dont try to pull to many movies at once from the same drive. I have easily pulled 3 1080p movies from the same drive with XBMC...

 

The only real upgrade advantage will be heat and power consumption. I dont think you will squeeze better network or drive performance from upgrading.

 

I know in your PM you mentioned a sata3 ssd for cache. Honestly, it is fast. but i didn't see enough performance to justify the cost. I'm getting 70-105 MB/s transfers now. but that's from a raid array or SSD. copying files from a desktop with a mechanical drive, it wont make a difference. The source becomes the bottleneck. Also with a cache drive the move script is still slow to the array.

 

But i think we can get you on the fast track with your build....

[boof]

Another thing to consider - depending on your client - is to configure / use any buffering options it might have. Forcing a read buffer of 10 seconds for media would give a bit of an annoying pause when you start playback but, I'd hope, would be enough to mitigate most minor stuttering issues you might have.

 

[mnemonic222000]

John/boof,

 

Thanks for the reply, I looked at your build very closely, so I hoped you would respond.

 

I agree my server is very decent and can do everything I need it to, but at a LARGE cost of heat and electricity.  This is why I am looking at building something new.  Currently I don't have any real issues with my existing server using unRAID, so I don't think an i3 will outperform my Xeon, except in the heat/energy department.  I guess I am just looking for confirmation that I won't be creating problems for myself my going down this road.

 

Currently all my streaming is done to Windows 7 Media Center boxes thru the house via the My Movies plug-in.  All ISO mounted and streamed thru Total Media Theater 5, so no transcoding is necessary.  All streams are done over CAT6 wired connections with a Cisco Small Business Smart Gigabit Switch providing the network backbone.  I also have Intel NIC on all my computers to help minimize issues, etc.  All my infrastructure (server and network) were built while I was chasing WHS stuttering issues, which unRAID has resolved.  And I don't want to go back to chasing my tail.  I threw a TON of hardware, time, and money at this stuttering problem and I really don't want to go back, but I am willing to invest a few more dollars to build a new server to reduce electrical consumption and heat load (heat load is VERY critical with summer approaching, my upstairs office and server closet get quite warm due to the BTU output of all my machines or the AC runs constantly).

 

On the drive front, I am torn.  I still have 3-4 Green drives, but really want to move to a more Enterprise grade 7200 RPM HDD.  Well I want to until I look at the price and the energy hit.  I will probably re-evaluate this as I move forward and have my new server in place.

 

I do appreciate the feedback and am open to hear more from anyone in the peanut gallery! 

 

[Johnm]

I'll be honest,

 

I have always hated windows media center.. it looked cool on paper but never worked for me.

I also know people that live by it.. just a differant tool to do the same thing.

 

 

So you're hosting full sized 25gig'ish bluray iso's?

 

what kind of data stream bandwith is that? 25Mps?

 

In theory then, a supermicro Atom board and green drives "should work" for you. Not that i am recommending it in this case.

 

If you're concerned about heat and power cost, enterprise drives in an unraid server in a closet is probably a waste of money.

Unless you're bill gates and this is your top secret media server. they are really designed for high availability and raid. they will probably cook in the closet.

 

now if you re talking 2.5" 15k sas drives. those will run a bit cooler and cost prohibitive for most users.  if you have a pool of those.. hardware raid them..

 

you already made it sounds like Eco is the goal of this build.  I say use the existing server for a test platform. toss 3 green drives on them. and stream some movies. figure out the limit.

 

i'll post my sys log in my build today. that should level 1 it.

 

 

 

 

[Johnm]

I just wanted to update something I found out today with this board.

 

I noticed some of your planed chips are T's and S's.. they might not work on this mobo.

 

I just tried an I5 2500k and nothing. no post no beeps.. just all fans take off at full speed and sits there. If you have not ordered your parts yet, you might want to check with supermicro first.

 

I am pretty sure the I5-2500 will be fine. again, check with supermicro.

 

*****Edit****

 

Nope.... only I3 based CPU's and E series Xeons.. ~shrug~.. the I3 is plenty horsepower.

 

I'll guess that they intentionally locked out I5/I7 CPU's to force you to buy a xeon to gain VT. That was the reason I tried the I5. I'll just re-order the xeon I canceled before.