Ryzen - 5700X or 5700G?


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For an Unraid Server, does it makes more sense to buy a Ryzen CPU or APU?

 

From what I understand, the regular CPUs are a bit more powerful (mainly in terms of L3 cache) and support ECC.

But I heard APUs have lower idle power consumption thanks to monolithic design. Also maybe the iGPU could be used for something? I still don't know how to use it on Unraid, or if it can be used at all. I don't run a dGPU in my server, so if Vega Graphics on a G-series APU could be utilized, I'd love to know.

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Usually the "G" type would be the better choice, as you need some kind of graphic card as the console for unraid and with an APU you save the valuable 1st 16x slot.

 

(But beware! the APU still takes 4 lanes away from that slot, is is not fully usable anymore. For instances, if you plan to use one of those cheaper 4*NVME cards, only 3 out of them will work (if at all, your MoBo needs to be able to do bifurbication 4x4x4x4))

 

The "not so powerful" argument is less important, a fileserver does usually not need to do intense caluculations.

 

I dont know if it is possible to pass on the iGPU to VMs or so, I don't need it. But making an educated guess I would say: YO! (YES/NO!) You could pass it on, but then you need to add a discreete one to be used as the console.  I think the other way round is more common, pass on the GPU in the slot and use the internal one as console.

 

 

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2 hours ago, MAM59 said:

Usually the "G" type would be the better choice, as you need some kind of graphic card as the console for unraid and with an APU you save the valuable 1st 16x slot.

 

(But beware! the APU still takes 4 lanes away from that slot, is is not fully usable anymore. For instances, if you plan to use one of those cheaper 4*NVME cards, only 3 out of them will work (if at all, your MoBo needs to be able to do bifurbication 4x4x4x4))

 

The "not so powerful" argument is less important, a fileserver does usually not need to do intense caluculations.

 

I dont know if it is possible to pass on the iGPU to VMs or so, I don't need it. But making an educated guess I would say: YO! (YES/NO!) You could pass it on, but then you need to add a discreete one to be used as the console.  I think the other way round is more common, pass on the GPU in the slot and use the internal one as console.

 

 

 

Wait what? The Unraid built-in terminal wouldn't work without a GPU? I find that hard to believe. Why couldn't it just use a virtual GPU like VNC? I mean it uses that by default for VMs.

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35 minutes ago, Stubbs said:

The Unraid built-in terminal wouldn't work without a GPU? I find that hard to believe.

Unraid does not care, but your BIOS/UEFI will. Many of them refuse to boot without a console (Graphics card + Monitor + Keyboard) attached.

Only real server boards can boot "headless" or come with an "management board" which emulates these things and allows access from the LAN.

 

With a standard motherboard you do not come far enough to start vnc server...

 

Maybe an USB attached "graphics card" will be sufficient but you have to try it out on your special hardware.

 

Edited by MAM59
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1 hour ago, MAM59 said:

Unraid does not care, but your BIOS/UEFI will. Many of them refuse to boot without a console (Graphics card + Monitor + Keyboard) attached.

Only real server boards can boot "headless" or come with an "management board" which emulates these things and allows access from the LAN.

 

With a standard motherboard you do not come far enough to start vnc server...

 

Maybe an USB attached "graphics card" will be sufficient but you have to try it out on your special hardware.

 

Don't worry, I misunderstood what you meant when you said console.

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Unless you really have a need for the iGPU, I would opt for the 5700X.  I have been looking at picking up a CPU upgrade for this system, and have been recently researching this.  I haven't seen that the 5700G uses less power.  And it is counter intuitive, as what I've read is the 5700G runs hotter than the 5700X.  (Heat = power used).

 

The 5700X has a bit more performance.  Along with the additional cache and ECC, it also has PCIe 4.0.  The 5700G is 3.0.

 

MAM59 is correct, every server needs a fallback GPU of some kind that works with the BIOS setup or for those times when the server doesn't start up as expected and you need to troubleshoot.  It doesn't need be in your system full time, but available in those rare cases when you need one.  I have an old GT710 I used before I put a Quadro P400 in the my server.

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What I sometimes do to avoid a "G" type cpu and to get a VGA output for the computer (needed for rack install) is to use a very cheap PCIe 1X VGA card from some china manufacturers. They cost ~5$ only (buy 3, some dont work at all, lousy quality), and usually a box has a 1x slot empty because neither lan nor nvme cards can use it.

 

(But to be honest, I did this only once and it was not really the brightest idea, even BIOS does not like pure VGA anymore. Usually I now use some hdmi->VGA converter boxes. They are also only 10$ and simulate an attached monitor with 1024x768 resolution, but this wont help here.)

 

6 hours ago, ConnerVT said:

I've read is the 5700G runs hotter than the 5700X

Naah, what is hot here?

grafik.png.fa08978cd827a9a330b9d6b9e9d54bfc.png

Even in summer it usually stays below 50°C. Only, if you push him to the limit, he goes up to 85°C here (90 is allowed). And this is in a rather tight 3U case with 16 drives and 4 NVMe and 2*10G LAN cards. Heat is no problem I would say if you pick components like coolers, fans and cases correctly.

 

(I have another 5700G in my wife's NUC. It is lowered to 35° thermal power dissipation and runs most of the (windows desktop) times fanless. Not the fastest one, but I sometimes even misuse it for Video Encoding. The hottest parts of this box are the RAM modules)

 

The "X" types are good for overclocking, but this wont help you much for a server. I never push them to the limits, mostly I even let them run slower than announced to save electricity and heat (the one from the example above is at "stock" speed. I made some experiments with faster and slower speed, there was no significant change in power consumption, so I reverted to "normal" settings)

 

Edited by MAM59
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I did not say the 5700G runs hot.  I said I've read is the 5700G runs hotter than the 5700X.

 

I wrote this with two thoughts in mind:

 

More heat usually means more power consumption.  This looked to be a factor to Stubbs, as he mentioned But I heard APUs have lower idle power consumption thanks to monolithic design.  This statement is not really correct.  APUs are more typically designed with laptop systems in mind, where space and power consumption are important factors.  However, the 5700G isn't really a laptop processor, more of a "Hey, we can relax some of the limiting used on these other versions and sell it as a desktop CPU...".

 

Ryzen temps at idle are always great.  But there are also times where a server is running at 80%+ for extended periods of time, with all of the drives spinning, where the system gets heat soaked.  Ambient room temp, case cooling and CPU cooler all start to come into play here.  Both are 65W TDP processors, and the difference in power used between the two are likely minimal (I haven't yet seen a definitive benchmark between the two).

 

This is why I feel if you don't have a use for the iGPU, skip adding the unneeded hardware to your system and buy the CPU that has more features which can be used daily (such as a bit more processing speed and additional cache).

 

 

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38 minutes ago, ConnerVT said:

This is why I feel if you don't have a use for the iGPU, skip adding the unneeded hardware

But if you leave it out, you need to have a substitute in a slot, as I have pointed out already.

We have to count it in instead...

 

So let us think... what sucks up more power ?

a) the internal direct connected iGPU ?

b) an external one that needs a bus interface with drivers and so on ?

 

 

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The external GPU doesn't need to live in the server full time.  Put it in when you need it, take it out afterward.

 

My server runs for months without me ever attaching a monitor, keyboard or mouse.  I only have a GPU to do transcoding of video.  Think I only have had to run a local GUI once in close to a year.  I keep a KB, mouse, two spare drives and some cables in the desk drawer where the server lives. 

 

The original post was asking if he needed a APU or CPU.  So one would figure the issue of needing a video output was addressed.  Also answered in other posts in this thread.

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13 hours ago, ConnerVT said:

More heat usually means more power consumption.  This looked to be a factor to Stubbs, as he mentioned But I heard APUs have lower idle power consumption thanks to monolithic design.  This statement is not really correct. 

There is some degree of truth to it.

 

 

1671068436076.png

Edited by Stubbs
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  • 2 weeks later...
5 hours ago, afc said:

What motherboard You are using?

Hmm... lemme check...

 

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) , Version Rev X.0x
American Megatrends Inc., Version 4403
BIOS Datum: Mittwoch, 27 April 2022

 

the bios already knew the 5000s.

 

But dont overstress the low temps of my sample. Its winter, so the room behind the garage is rather cold. In summer it can go >30° and cpu is around 40-50°.

 

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On 1/3/2023 at 1:00 AM, MAM59 said:

Hmm... lemme check...

 

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) , Version Rev X.0x
American Megatrends Inc., Version 4403
BIOS Datum: Mittwoch, 27 April 2022

 

the bios already knew the 5000s.

 

But dont overstress the low temps of my sample. Its winter, so the room behind the garage is rather cold. In summer it can go >30° and cpu is around 40-50°.

 

 

Thanks for the Info!! That board looks good!! specially the 8 sata ports!!

Edited by afc
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2 hours ago, afc said:

That board looks good!! specially the 8 sata ports!!

Beware that this is one of those "overfilled" boards, which means, you cannot use everything at the same time.

For instance, you only get the Sata Ports 5-8 if you disable the onboard wifi!

And, if using a "G" type processor, you can only add 3 NVMe SSDs into the 16x slot instead of the 4 that the hyper card could hold.

 

But yes, the board runs fine. I have 128Gigs of RAM, and 5 NVMe drives in use, 10Gbe LAN in Slot and 2*4 Port SATA controllers too.

this gives a total of 16 sata connectors.

 

Edited by MAM59
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  • 6 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

I would share my experience. I also have 5000 series APU, but I went to a PRO 5750GE version (35W TDP), wich supports ECC RAM and runs with 128Gb (4x64Gb) very well.

 

I also had ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS, but recently upgraded it to ASUS proart x570 for its integrated 10Gbe and 3x PCIe x16, sacrifycing 2 SATA ports for it. PCIe4 works only the 3Rd PCIe x16, while the first two x16 are gen 3. This is an APU limitaition.

I will also put Hyper card there and will look how it works. Nevertheless, this MB is also overfilled as the 3Rd M.2 slot deactivates a couple of SATA ports. I saw that Asrock now released it's RACK version for AM5 (ASRock Rack B650D4U-2L2T/BCM), but it is limited with everything: only 4 SATA6, 1x PCIe 16x, 1x PCIe 4x and 1x PCIe 1x.

So, I'd rather keep my x570 setup for now and when Unraid fully supports AM5 lineup, I would also go for a ASUS proart x670e.

Additional drives can be attached to LSI 9308-8i card if needed in the future.

NVMe drives will remain with Asus Hyper card.

I am not sure whether PCIe lanes will be enough for everything, but so far it is not a bottleneck. 

Ryzen 5700 or 5900 (only 65W TDP) with a cheap discrete GPU might be also an option.  

Unraid.jpg

Edited by koaly
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