April 15, 20242 yr Great value for money. 13500H is way more efficient than my 11900t but there is a problem again with ASPM so no acheiving extra low power states. However I am using a HBA card to run my 20disks. If you use without it will idle much lower.
April 16, 20242 yr Odroid H4 🎉 Today Hardkernel announced 3 new Odroid models! See https://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=168&t=48344 | https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-h4/start I appreciate that they listen to user needs and new models are improved based on the user feedback! especially 2 models are very attractive: H4 Plus and H4 Ultra (with 8-core Intel N305) are interesting because they have 4x SATA III, 1x m.2, 2x LAN (2.5Gbit Intel I226-V) there is also kit for converting to mini-ITX format ! https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/h4-mini-itx-kit/ 10x SATA - whey you use m.2 to 6x SATA ASM1166 controller For me, the H4 Plus will be enough, it has Intel N97, which is better than very popular N100. I need to highlight an awesome work and focus on idle power consumption. Only 2,7~2,8 W ⚡️ (on the DC side, so potential inefficiencies in the power supply are not taken into account) Quote In this test, Ubuntu Desktop OS was used, and we think that power consumption could have been slightly reduced if Ubuntu Server OS had been used. This will be most probably my main home server / NAS. Specifications, benchmarks, images and more details: Spoiler Specs: How it looks: Power consumption: headless (with only 1x LAN plugged) with Ubuntu Desktop: H4 Mini-ITX Kit Video Encoding Benchmark Case for 4x 2.5" SATA SSDs/HDDs Edited April 16, 20242 yr by bagican
April 17, 20242 yr Author Very interesting, especially with the Mini-ITX kit. Though the SATA chipset connects to only one lane of PCIe 3.0, so this is only a good idea, if you plan to use HDDs. (Four SATA SSDs would be bottlenecked.) Question: since the M.2 slot actually has 4 lanes (gen3 x4), could you use something like the M.2 Key M to triple PCIe x1 riser/adapter/extender by Kalea Informatique? It would give you options for adding (a) an x1 4-port SATA controller for a total of eight SATA ports, (b) a gen3 M.2 SSD carrier card (x1) or even more SATA, and (c) an SFP+ 10GbE card like the TRENDnet TEG-10GECSFP 3.0R. (With only one lane, the latter wouldn't run at full 10G speed, of course, but could still reach something like 700–800 MB/s.) You would lose one PCIe lane in the process, though. (But maybe there are extenders with 4 * x1 or 2 * x1 + 1 * x2 PCIe slots. ❓) Edited April 17, 20242 yr by eicar
April 18, 20242 yr That is if the adapter is splitting the lanes. It looks like it is simply a USB 3.0 adapter so if it is a USB 3.2 gen 2x2 or whatever is the right standard it could provide the needed bandwith for 3 pcie3x1 slots.
April 18, 20242 yr Author Researched a little myself. The USB is just transmitting the data between the Key M slot and the chipset, which is a Diodes/Pericom PI7C9X2G404SL, and that is a switch, so no bifurcation is needed on the board. (Don't even know if M.2 bifurcation is possible directly.) But it's a 4 port 4 lane switch, so it's only using 3 out of 4 possible ports, and it's PCIe 2.0 instead of 3.0, so each x1 slot will be bottlenecked at 500 MB/s instead of 1 GB/s. https://www.diodes.com/part/view/PI7C9X2G404SL So not really useful. (Maybe it's better to use a simple M.2 to PCIe x4 riser/extender, and then use a gen3 x4 to quad x1 switch/extension in the PCIe slot… if those even exist.) Edited April 18, 20242 yr by eicar
May 13, 20242 yr On 4/14/2024 at 11:27 PM, dopeytree said: Great value for money. 13500H is way more efficient than my 11900t but there is a problem again with ASPM so no acheiving extra low power states. However I am using a HBA card to run my 20disks. If you use without it will idle much lower. I went with the Erying i5-13420H SRMHX ddr5. Had boot issues with the debug light stuck on ddr. Reached out to support and they suggested different ram. Returned the Teamgroup 16GB 5600Mhz DDR5 for Crucial 32GB 5600Mhz DDR5 but had the same issue. Tried working with support for a few days but ended up RMA the board.
June 13, 20242 yr Author A new N-series processor was spotted in the wild, the N250 aka Twin Lake: 4 E-cores, 4 threads, base clock 1.2 GHz. It is presumed that it will still use the current N-series' Gracemont E-cores, i.e. the rebranding from Alder Lake-N to Twin Lake would not signify any architecture changes. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-n250-twin-lake-low-power-cpu-spotted-features-4-e-cores I'm far from knowledgeable, when it comes to the labyrinthine Intel CPUs and architectures, but people are saying that any second generation N-series would use the Skymont architecture, but as far as I remember, that was an old architecture years ago, and the next generation after Gracemont is currently Crestmont. On the other hand, the name Skymont seems to have been reused by Intel for the E-cores of the upcoming 2024 Lunar Lake Core Ultra series. (It's all very confusing.) But if true, a second generation N-series probably wouldn't arrive before late in 2025. Though judging from online discussions on Lunar Lake, this has no effect on the N-series, so it could actually take a couple of years before any new generation arrives. EDIT – another article on the N250 and the new Twin Lake series, even theorizing on the i3-N400 and i3-N405: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intels-newest-e-core-only-twin-lake-cpus-are-on-the-way-starting-with-intel-n250 Intel will also release the (non-N series) Intel 310 as a successor to the Intel 300, which are dual P-core CPUs, and the new one will be derived from the Raptor Lake S Refresh series, so it's very unlikely that new N series chips would be anything more than a Gracemont refresh. Edited July 27, 20241 yr by eicar additional article
July 31, 20241 yr I found this motherboard (mw-n100-nas) which at first glance seems interesting for mounting a NAS, but I was unable to find anything about the assignments of the 9 lines and the chipset SATA. Has anyone had better luck than me ? This is what I was able to find on the different offers on AliExpress. Processeur Intel Alder Lake-N N100/N305 1 * Emplacement mémoire DDR5, 4800MHz, la mémoire prend en charge jusqu'à 32 Go Réseau 3 * LAN (2 * port réseau Intel i226 2.5G + 1*10G), prend en charge le démarrage sans disque, le réveil du réseau 1 * HD + 1 * DP, prend en charge l'affichage synchrone ou asynchrone 6 * SATA3.0, 2 * M.2(NVME) Interface I/O 3 * LAN (2 * Intel i226 2.5G + 1*10G port réseau) 1 * HD 1 * DP 1 * USB3.0 1 * TYPE-C (fonction complète) 2 * USB2.0 1 * TF_CARD (carte TF) 1 * COM 2 * USB2.0 (en-tête de broche), 2 * USB2.0 6 * SATA3.0 2 * M.2(NVME) 1 * FP, 1 * TPM 1 * CPUFAN, 1 * SYSFAN Minuterie Watchdog 0-255S, réinitialisation du système Win10, LINUX Alimentation ATX 24Pin + 4Pin Température de stockage: -20 ℃ -70 ℃ Température de fonctionnement: -0 ℃ -60 ℃ 170mm * 170mm https://fr.aliexpress.com/i/1005005347552418.html Edited August 4, 20241 yr by Epire
July 31, 20241 yr Author Nice find. It's listed as the MW-N100-NAS with an additional number "24010004" on the motherboard. Article here: https://nascompares.com/2024/07/27/the-mw-n100-nas-n100-10gbe-m-itx-6-bay-motherboard-just-released/ The chipset for the 10G NIC is a Marvell AQC113C, which seems to be a rather new one also used by some ASRock industrials boards, with PCIe 4.0 compatibility, so I strongly assume that it supports C-states. It must be using at least two PCIe 3.0 lanes, which is supported by the fact that they dropped the PCIe slot, which can be up to x2 on the retail N100 boards by ASRock. (But usually just x1 on Topton boards.) As for the SATA, those would be three more PCIe 3.0 lanes, leaving four remaining. But the SATA chipset? Couldn't find anything. If it's the JMB585, it won't be that great. (ASMedia is the way to go, if one is looking for maximum power savings.) But I don't understand why they don't offer 8 SATA ports. According to the specs, the N100 can support 4 SATA natively (via two PCIe 3.0 lanes), so for a NAS they should have gone for 4 additional SATA for a total of 8, and dropped one of the M.2 slots instead (imho). DDR5 means you could in principle go up to 64 GB of RAM eventually… realistically only 48 GB at the moment. 2 * USB 2.0 Type-A on the motherboard for an Unraid boot drive is always great. With potentially four remaining PCIe lanes, the two M.2 NVMe SSDs could in principle be x2, but probably just 2 * x1. Edited August 1, 20241 yr by eicar
August 7, 20241 yr I sent an email to [email protected] in order to get info on the motherboard (mw-n100-nas), here is their answer : Hi, SATA is converted using one PCIE 1X, two NVMEs are converted using two PCIE 1X, 10G LAN is converted using one PCIE2X, and two 2.5G LANs are converted using two PCIE 1X The motherboard information is attached in the file. BR Lanbo
October 21, 20241 yr Hi: I recently bought this CWWK motherboard (with Intel Gold 8505 CPU): https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005007081392880.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.5.528e194d8B6Ajk&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp I have set-up everything and unraid is indeed working well, but the fans are too loud all the time. I changed BIOS config with no success, I don't know if anyone in this topic has experience with this board that could help me. Do I need to update the BIOS? Thanks.
November 12, 20241 yr On 10/21/2024 at 6:55 PM, yayitazale said: Hi: I recently bought this CWWK motherboard (with Intel Gold 8505 CPU): https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005007081392880.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.5.528e194d8B6Ajk&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp I have set-up everything and unraid is indeed working well, but the fans are too loud all the time. I changed BIOS config with no success, I don't know if anyone in this topic has experience with this board that could help me. Do I need to update the BIOS? Thanks. Hi, just posting if anyone has same issue, I talked with CWWK and they sent me a new bios image that corrects the issue.
November 19, 20241 yr On 11/13/2024 at 5:57 PM, foraye said: did you call them or chat? The chat has not worked for me to date... I chat them via aliexpress
December 20, 20241 yr Just stumbled upon these boards only a month after I bought an N5105 board. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807243287509.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.5.21ef180247OG2P&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa#nav-specification Edit: It appears to be the same board as this: https://cwwk.net/products/cwwk-12th-gen-i3-n305-n100-2-intel-i226-v-2-5g-nas-motherboard-6-sata3-0-6-bay-soft-rout-1-ddr5-4800mhz-firewall-itx-mainboard?_pos=21&_sid=f0793905f&_ss=r&variant=46326552625384 Not sure if anyone else has seen them. It's a Topton i3-N305 board, but it's different from the others I've seen. It's got 2x M.2 on PCIe x1, 6x SATA 3.0 on PCIe x1, only 2x 2.5 GB eth, a 1x PCIe x4 slot, a USB3 header, and support for Intel 115x coolers. All this at only 18W. The pcb is also purple instead of green or black. This board fixes all the issues I was seeing with the N5105. I only need 2 eth instead of 4 and wanted a little more power than 4 cores. 8 is plenty for me. My least favorite was the cooler support, which was non existent. With the N305 board, you can use coolers like the Noctua NH L12S. Having the ability to add a graphics card for transcoding, a 10 GB eth, or more SATA ports is also great for future proofing. The one downside is the single channel RAM, but, the way I see it, I really don't dual channel for a small server application. Especially since it supports DDR5 4800MHz, nearly double the speed of the N5105. So, needless to say, mine is on it's way and will be immediately replacing the old board. I can post an update once it's in if anyone is interested. Edited December 20, 20241 yr by cordlord
December 28, 20241 yr I love all the work and info everyone brought to this thread. I couldn't find the exact solution i wanted in the N/U series, so I ended up with an Alder lake setup. But I hope the info keeps coming for others that might need it. edit: I mistook a motherboard as unique, was just a reseller. https://www.amazon.com/Motherboard-IntelI226-V-Firewall-Mainboard-N305/dp/B0D9HDCSY7/ Edited December 28, 20241 yr by nasforthemass I mistook a motherboard as unique, was just a reseller.
January 8, 20251 yr On 12/20/2024 at 2:36 PM, cordlord said: Just stumbled upon these boards only a month after I bought an N5105 board. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807243287509.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.5.21ef180247OG2P&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa#nav-specification Edit: It appears to be the same board as this: https://cwwk.net/products/cwwk-12th-gen-i3-n305-n100-2-intel-i226-v-2-5g-nas-motherboard-6-sata3-0-6-bay-soft-rout-1-ddr5-4800mhz-firewall-itx-mainboard?_pos=21&_sid=f0793905f&_ss=r&variant=46326552625384 Not sure if anyone else has seen them. It's a Topton i3-N305 board, but it's different from the others I've seen. It's got 2x M.2 on PCIe x1, 6x SATA 3.0 on PCIe x1, only 2x 2.5 GB eth, a 1x PCIe x4 slot, a USB3 header, and support for Intel 115x coolers. All this at only 18W. The pcb is also purple instead of green or black. This board fixes all the issues I was seeing with the N5105. I only need 2 eth instead of 4 and wanted a little more power than 4 cores. 8 is plenty for me. My least favorite was the cooler support, which was non existent. With the N305 board, you can use coolers like the Noctua NH L12S. Having the ability to add a graphics card for transcoding, a 10 GB eth, or more SATA ports is also great for future proofing. The one downside is the single channel RAM, but, the way I see it, I really don't dual channel for a small server application. Especially since it supports DDR5 4800MHz, nearly double the speed of the N5105. So, needless to say, mine is on it's way and will be immediately replacing the old board. I can post an update once it's in if anyone is interested. Alright, so I finally received the board and got it installed. I've had it running for about 4 days now. In summary, I do not regret this upgrade at all. This new board is MILES ahead of the N5105. Absolutely worth the extra money. Full Overview: Note: When using the term "idle" in my case, this means one drive spun up and no special processes running outside of Unraid, containers and VMS. I posted all the specs in the last post and they all seem to be correct. One correction, I believe is, that this is a CWWK board. I'm not completely savvy to how resellers work, but I got it from the Aliexpress link provided. The board arrived intact and passed all of my testing. It booted, runs the same American Mega Trends bios all of these boards run, and has been running my server perfectly. Both of the boards support automatic power on after power loss. The USB 3.0 header on the N305 board is a very nice addition. The biggest benefit for this board over other N305 boards specifically, is that the 2nd M.2 slot and the PCIe x4 expansion slot are SEPARATE, meaning they can both be used AT THE SAME TIME. On other N305 boards, these are shared, meaning you can only have one or the other active. With the size constraints of this board, you will need to use a riser cable with the PCIe x4 expansion slot if you're also using any of the SATA ports as they will interfere with each other, but this is a small price to pay in my opinion. I indeed am running a single Crucial DDR5 32GB 5200MHz RAM clocked down to the max supported 4800MHz with 0 issues whatsoever. Memtest passed a full 13 passes with 0 issues. Unraid sees all 32GB and has not had any issues. The Noctua NH L12S cooler I ordered mounted right over the included copper heat-sink with no problems at all. It keeps this CPU very happy at 17C at "idle". I've never seen it jump higher than 30C under load. I don't see myself ever worrying about overheating. Note: This is in an unheated room during winter where ambient temp is around 4.5C, so your temps may be a little higher. I have the fan running about half speed if the temps get over 20C, then jump to full speed at 40C. This is configurable through the bios. As for actual performance for Unraid, this thing is a beast. It booted right up after swapping the motherboard and has no issues whatsoever. No changes or special configs were necessary to get anything working, c-states, network ports, etc. I'm running about 30 docker containers, pihole, full media stack and full Nextcloud AIO install, and a Home Assistant VM, 3cpus 6GB ram, and it barely breaks a sweat. I rarely see it go over 10% usage unless I'm doing something intensive or doing a big file transfer. Even then, it can handle a ton and I still have yet to actually get it to 100% usage outside of a benchmark test. My favorite part, there has been no significant power draw changes during normal usage. I have a UPS that tells me the total power draw and the numbers are exactly the same as they were with the old board. Overall, with 2 NVMe drives, 4 7200RPM SATA drives, and the new motherboard, I'm running about 30 watts at "idle" and up to 50 watts or so during something like a parity sync. This is with a PSU that isn't even super efficient at this power draw. Again, all out of the box with no time spent tinkering with the bios or special configs. All in all, if you're looking for a low-power, small form factor, yet powerful, modern and flexible CPU, I would highly recommend this motherboard for the price. I paid right around $300 for the board and cooler. If you have any other questions about the board, my setup, or want me to run any tests, just let me know. Edited January 8, 20251 yr by cordlord
January 8, 20251 yr The only thing i would ask is to try to get down to the minimum power state to test the board itself. To get to that state in unraid i would ask you do this. 1. Set unraid to not start the array. This prevents any dockers or vm's from pulling power to the CPU 2. Disconnect the hard drives temporarily from the board and power. 3. if reasonable disconnect fans to reduce power usage. Once the system is running in this state take power measurements. You probably also want to take the power measurements from something other then a UPS. They or notorious for not providing good power usage data. It is probably fine in some uses, but may not display the lowest power usage numbers.
January 9, 20251 yr On 1/8/2025 at 2:57 PM, mavrrick said: The only thing i would ask is to try to get down to the minimum power state to test the board itself. To get to that state in unraid i would ask you do this. 1. Set unraid to not start the array. This prevents any dockers or vm's from pulling power to the CPU 2. Disconnect the hard drives temporarily from the board and power. 3. if reasonable disconnect fans to reduce power usage. Once the system is running in this state take power measurements. You probably also want to take the power measurements from something other then a UPS. They or notorious for not providing good power usage data. It is probably fine in some uses, but may not display the lowest power usage numbers. Next time I'm able to take my server down, I would be happy to test this out. The only fan I have connected to the motherboard is the cpu fan, but I would be comfortable disconnecting that as the heat sinks should handle the cpu at idle. Good tip about the power measurements. I'll find another way and come back with more concrete numbers, both loaded and unloaded. On the Aliexpress page, they claim the board should sit around 18-23 watts completely bare. We'll see if my numbers are similar.
June 27, 20251 yr Here are my measurements of power consumption of my Odroid H4 (without SATA ports) but with 2x2 card and with 2x m.2 SSD Samsung 980 Pro 2 TB, 32GB RAM DDR5 Crucial:BIOS: - version: 1.08 for 2x2 card - ASPM enabled - IB-ECC enabled DISK: 2x m.2 Samsung 980 Pro 2TB RAM: 1x DDR5 32GB Crucial ETH: connected to 1Gbps switch OS: DietPi (Debian 12) Kernel: 6.1.0-37-amd64 Packages: 262 (dpkg) CPU Governor: powersavenote: only Debian 12 (DietPi) is running, so it is total idlenote: I don't plan to use unRAID here on Odroid H4, because I already have unRAID running on my Odroid H31,9~2,0 W idle ⚡️ without 2x2 card (1x m.2 SSD):2,2~2,5 W idle ⚡️ with 2x2 card and 2x m.2 SSD: Edited June 27, 20251 yr by bagican
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