First PC Build Validation & Suggestion

[JTCA]

Thanks for anyone's help. I have been planning my unraid server to move about 5TB of media immediately with room for growth. This is what I have put together for hardware so far. I have done some research around and based on what I have read calculated a need for support of about 763W with a suggestion to multiply it by 1.5 to account for surges leading to about 1145W. Any opinions, thoughts, and suggestions are GREATLY appreciated. Take note there are two cases listed. Antec case listed with 0 quantity because in my research I have heard that though it is a good case the Lian case is better.

 

 

Qty. Product Description Total Price

1 LIAN LI PC-P80 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case $299.99

0 Antec Twelve Hundred V3 Black Steel ATX Full Tower Unbeatable Gaming Case $160.00

1 ASRock P67 EXTREME6 (B3) LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $159.99

3 HighPoint Rocket 620 PCI-Express 2.0 x1 SATA III (6.0Gb/s) Controller Card $74.97

1 ICY DOCK MB455SPF-B 5 in 3 SATA I, II & III Hot-Swap Internal Backplane Raid Cage Module $147.99

1 Intel Core i3-2100 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2000 BX80623I32100 $124.99

1 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model F3-17000CL9D-8GBXM $79.99

4 HITACHI Deskstar 7K3000 HDS723020BLA642 (0f12115) 2TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $799.96

[Ford Prefect]

...looks like your PSU will drive a lot of extra controller cards 

 

with plans for growth, I'd invest in stability....

 

- ..in a real server motherboard, i.e from supermicro

- ..in a build with less parts -> an 8-port SAS/SATA card (needs x4 or x8 PCIe on the mobo and cables)

 

If you want to save some money, the 1156 socket (with i3-540) builds are still available (SM X8SIL-F) and will do very nice.

[WeeboTech]

I would second the recomendation for a supermicro server class board. They are rock solid.

I've had boards last 3 years without being rebooted.

 

IPMI is a pleasure if you are going to locate the server some where, set it and forget it.

 

I would also recommend using the 8 port cards since that is what most of the users on the forum are using.

 

I do not believe you need a 1100 watt PSU.

 

Figure 2A per hard drive.

 

I have a 750 watt corsair PSU driving 17 drives. (and I'm not even using a single rail).

 

I would recommend you find a high efficiency single rail > 50 amps ion the +12v line or so.

 

Here's a good example to start with, depending on how many drives you are going to use.

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=17555.0

 

if I were building a new system, I would probably choose the Antec 1200 since it can possibly hold 20 drives.

Many people choose the Norco cases since you would not need to purchase hot swap bays.

 

How many drives do you plan to support?

[JTCA]

I'm looking to support as many drives as possible within a single unit. I would rather build with room for growth than build and come up short. I'll take a look at the Norco cases. Also take a look at some 8 port cards and going with supermicro. I was originally looking at supermicro which was recommended by lime, but it did not seem to support the latest PCI express options. Wasn't sure if that was because the article was old or that the performance improvement would be negligible or unused for media streaming.

[JTCA]

Norco looks pretty nice.

NORCO RPC-4224 4U Rackmount Server Case with 24 Hot-Swappable SATA/SAS Drive Bays $400

But why is the price so low?

[JTCA]

Ok starting to look at the numbers and I'm starting to think I am going a little overboard. At 5TB I'm at about 142 blu-ray isos at 35gb each which is about where I am now. a 24 case with 2TB comes out to 48TB assuming 2TB lossed to unraid, I'm looking at 46TB or approx 1300 movies. Half of that leaves me at approx. 630 movies and 22TB of space, with 12 2TB drives. Half that once more and I'm at 285 movies on 10TB of available space on 6 2TB drives.

 

I'm starting to think that 8 2TB drives is all I will probably need or does anyone else see storing more than 400 blu-ray movies as feasible in the near future?

[ashaneil]

I would second the recomendation for a supermicro server class board. They are rock solid.

 

Not to hijack this thread, but whats the big deal with a SuperMicro board vs "desktop boards"? A "SuperMicro board + Intel CPU = $300+" whereas a "Desktop board + AMD Athalon CPU = $120". That is a huge price difference. Is getting a SuperMicro board worth it if all you are doing is using unRAID without ESXi?

[batt01]

Not to hijack this thread, but whats the big deal with a SuperMicro board vs "desktop boards"? A "SuperMicro board + Intel CPU = $300+" whereas a "Desktop board + AMD Athalon CPU = $120". That is a huge price difference. Is getting a SuperMicro board worth it if all you are doing is using unRAID without ESXi?

 

I too, wonder if its makes that much difference. I spent about 120.00 for MB and CPU. Has the poste seen this thread.?

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7998.0

[prostuff1]

Is getting a SuperMicro board worth it if all you are doing is using unRAID without ESXi?

That depends on a couple of things.  In most cases no, the Supermicro will not gain you all that much.

 

They are rock solid and very nice boards.  They are well supported in ESXi so hence the reason they are recommended for that use.  For a general build... an AMD build will do 99% of what the user is looking for.

[ashaneil]

Thanks for the clarification. Cheers!

[WeeboTech]

It's worth it if you want to run it remotely without a keyboard mouse monitor.

IPMI is worth an expenditure if you do not want to keep additional hardware on the machine.

Many people who move forward with IPMI are very happy with it.

 

For machines that do not fit on my KVM switch and are under the table, I love IPMI and plan to migrate most of my "server only" appliance machines to IPMI boards.

[WeeboTech]

Is getting a SuperMicro board worth it if all you are doing is using unRAID without ESXi?

That depends on a couple of things.  In most cases no, the Supermicro will not gain you all that much.

 

They are rock solid and very nice boards.  They are well supported in ESXi so hence the reason they are recommended for that use.  For a general build... an AMD build will do 99% of what the user is looking for.

 

As far as Rock Solid... I've been using supermicro workstation and server class boards since the late 90s.

 

My first supermicro workstation was running non stop without being rebooted for almost 3 years.

That ran a pair of 800mhz P III's until I upgraded to 1GHZ Slot 1 PIII"s. (just to give you an idea of age).

The one after that was a pair of XEON 2.4's 604 pin chips. (again, just to give you an idea of age).

 

My current workstation. (a pair of 3ghz Xeon Woodcrests) gets rebooted about once every 6 months.

It runs Linux, Vmware workstation and 4-5 virtual machines for development.

 

I have one in service at work that is over 5 years old and runs without fail.

 

My friend's whole hosting business has been on Supermicro's for the last 15 years.

 

They've been really reliable, a bit expensive, but very reliable.

[WeeboTech]

Ok starting to look at the numbers and I'm starting to think I am going a little overboard. At 5TB I'm at about 142 blu-ray isos at 35gb each which is about where I am now. a 24 case with 2TB comes out to 48TB assuming 2TB lossed to unraid, I'm looking at 46TB or approx 1300 movies. Half of that leaves me at approx. 630 movies and 22TB of space, with 12 2TB drives. Half that once more and I'm at 285 movies on 10TB of available space on 6 2TB drives.

 

I'm starting to think that 8 2TB drives is all I will probably need or does anyone else see storing more than 400 blu-ray movies as feasible in the near future?

 

It's entirely based on how many movies you will buy, rent, download, store.

You can also consider music collections, and other files that your family uses, PC backups, picture backups.

 

Frankly, I would by a case capable of being maxed out if the cost fits.

 

The norco cases are very cost effective considering you do not have to purchase 5x3 removables.

You can always purchase drives a piece at a time.

Also consider, you may want to upgrade workstations to SSD's in the future, which lets you move your magnetic media drives to the unRAID server. (or at least offload your larger data requirements to the unRAID server).

[ashaneil]

Weebo,

Do you recommend buying the SuperMicro SAS/SATA cards now (may only need 1 for now) or as needs arise?

[JTCA]

ashaneil - Looking at the post you mentioned, the 20+ drive configurations mentioned all use supermicro boards.

Prostuff1- Thanks for the alternative perspective.  

WeeboTech - I had to look up what you were talking about with IPMI last night. From the sounds of it, that is definitely the direction I would prefer to go. I have all my equipment in a closet and would prefer to not have to go into the closet to manage it which is also one of the reasons I am building this server in the first place.

 

I prefer building for the long haul so I would prefer parts I can depend on. Based on recent replies sounds more like the ASRock should work, but the Supermicro will work. So I think I will look at some supermicro boards. I think I will also go with the Narco 24 bay case. Like WeeboTech mentioned I need only add drives as needed and can use it to store backups, music, pictures, etc...

 

WeeboTech, same question as ashaneil on the sas/sata cards?

 

 

[JTCA]

Another Question, what is your thoughts on Celeron vs using an I3 for media streaming.

[Ford Prefect]

Another Question, what is your thoughts on Celeron vs using an I3 for media streaming.

 

...the way unRAID is architected, you will not saturate the CPU+memory bandwidth of modern CPUs/chipsets

when streaming media to one or more client(s)...even a single-core intel-ATOM or AMD would do nicely.

You will max-out at the speed of GB-Ethernet first, then at the speed of a single disk for second....

 

If you plan to save some money on the CPU, check if your mobo will support a celeron and that the CPU will have "idle-states" and

"Enhanced-Intel-Speedstep-Technology - EIST" in its specs...this will save you some power when the server will sit idle.

 

edit: At a fist glance, 1155 socket celerons would not support that feature, as it occurs to me...maybe a Pentium-G is the better choice here, like the G620

[JTCA]

Ok looking at some supermicros and I noticed this one in addition to the X8SIL-F-O. The difference I see is an addtional PCI Express x8 giving a total of 3 verses 2 on the other board.

SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIA-F-O LGA 1156 Intel 3420 ATX Intel Xeon X3400/L3400 series Server Motherboard

 

I figure with 6 sata 3.0 ports, then add two 8 port cards I will get 22 drives. That leaves two more available drives. So I can either add another pci card for the 2 drives or use it for something else.

Especially since I read on one forum that unraid will only support 22 drives.

[Ford Prefect]

Ok looking at some supermicros and I noticed this one in addition to the X8SIL-F-O. The difference I see is an addtional PCI Express x8 giving a total of 3 verses 2 on the other board.

SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIA-F-O LGA 1156 Intel 3420 ATX Intel Xeon X3400/L3400 series Server Motherboard

 

Yes, this board is based on the same chipset as the X8SIL.

The X8SIA is full-ATX in size, where the X8SIL is micro-ATX in size.

If you can house it in your case, it will perform well.

[marcusone]

I like this thred... could someone point out which is the best SuperMicro SATA/SAS PCI-E 8x card to get if you were to get the SuperMicro board mentioned here?

 

Thanks,

[Ford Prefect]

...may it is time to add one more, small remark:

 

the Supermicro boards discussed here are XEON boards, but can host an i3 CPU as well.

But in order to use them for an ESXi build, you need a CPU with the vt-d feature, which the i3 currently will not provide.

[marcusone]

After an hour or so of reading the boards (I know, my question was a bit lazy of me), it appears that the AOC-SASLP-MV8 card is the "best" option (or at least most favored by people on the boards that I could find).

 

Also for those that are in the thread reading and want to save time; the SAS cards usually need a "forward breakout cable" (SAS connector to 4 SATA connectors).  I'm not sure why there are "forward" and "backward" when they look the same to me, but I assume the SAS connector is a bit more complicated and so requires different wires when going from one to the other depending on the devices.

[JTCA]

Ok that brings up another question. SATA  or SAS drives? Sata I/II/II or SAS or SATA/SAS controller?

[Ford Prefect]

Ok that brings up another question. SATA  or SAS drives? Sata I/II/II or SAS or SATA/SAS controller?

 

These controllers could drive both, S-ATA drives you can connect directly up to the number given in the specs of the card /typically 4, 8 or 16).

With a SAS Expander, you can increase the no. of addressable drives for a single card (op to 64 or even more).

 

...AFAIK SAS drives are always Enterprise-Level drives, designed for 24x7 (spinning that means, inside a HW-raid configuration).

In fact, an enterprise level drive can run spinning a lot longer than a consumer based drive before it will fail, but a consumer level drive

can cope with a lot more spin-up/-down cycles than an enterprise drive will do.

 

With unRAID targeting the home/SOHO-Level, consumer grade drives are all you need.

....that means -> use unRAID with spin-up/-down feature, save energy, save you some money, buy S-ATA and consumer drives.

 

[ashaneil]

Also for those that are in the thread reading and want to save time; the SAS cards usually need a "forward breakout cable" (SAS connector to 4 SATA connectors).  I'm not sure why there are "forward" and "backward" when they look the same to me, but I assume the SAS connector is a bit more complicated and so requires different wires when going from one to the other depending on the devices.

 

This is what I used to clear up my confusion: SAS to SATA cables: Forward or Reverse Which, Where, Why