Hi - I have just a quick question that may not be the easiest to answer (or maybe it's super easy). I searched the forums first, but could have missed if this was already discussed:

 

I have a fair amount of movies and TV shows and I use XBMC throughout my house. Would it make things more efficient (power use, speed, etc) to have my thumbnails for media all reside on one drive in unRAID? I think it should be easy enough to set up in the shares, by making it set to just one disk in the "Included Disk" section in "Share Settings".

 

One follow-up question: I am running a Cache drive, which for the most part is always going (MySQL, SAB, CP, SB, etc); would it make any sense to place it on there?

 

Once more, my honest apologies if this has been discussed before, I couldn't see anything with it.

 

Thanks for your help and for any advice!

One follow-up to the follow-up ;-)

 

Would it be beneficial at all to throw these onto a smaller SSD drive, which could be excluded on other shares? I was thinking about the MySQL database and Thumbnails/FanArt.

 

I understand that it may not be a speed increase due to the limits of my network, but this would be more for energy consumption and not having to spin up every drive every time I want to browse my library.

 

Thanks once more!

One follow-up to the follow-up ;-)

 

Would it be beneficial at all to throw these onto a smaller SSD drive, which could be excluded on other shares? I was thinking about the MySQL database and Thumbnails/FanArt.

 

I understand that it may not be a speed increase due to the limits of my network, but this would be more for energy consumption and not having to spin up every drive every time I want to browse my library.

 

Thanks once more!

 

For my own setup, I went with the mysql db and thumbnails on one drive route. Works well for me. Watched movie and paused position is retained for movies/shows between all media players.

 

I have the db and the thumbs all stored on the cache drive, but I found initially that there was quite a lengthy pause before the thumbs would show up for me in XBMC. I upgraded the cache drive to an ssd, and now thumbs appear almost as fast as they did when they were being stored locally on the media player. An outside-of-the-array ssd would work fine, but I figure may as well get some other use out of it as well...

 

Now, after all that, if memory serves me correctly, I believe the next version of XBMC has some sort of new system for DBs and thumbnail storage. Haven't looked into the details, but you may want to check it out before investing too much time...

I wish XBMC had a central library setup that wasn't mysql. Just seems overkill to set up. I mean, all my movies are in a central location...

For my own setup, I went with the mysql db and thumbnails on one drive route. Works well for me. Watched movie and paused position is retained for movies/shows between all media players.

 

I have the db and the thumbs all stored on the cache drive, but I found initially that there was quite a lengthy pause before the thumbs would show up for me in XBMC. I upgraded the cache drive to an ssd, and now thumbs appear almost as fast as they did when they were being stored locally on the media player. An outside-of-the-array ssd would work fine, but I figure may as well get some other use out of it as well...

 

Now, after all that, if memory serves me correctly, I believe the next version of XBMC has some sort of new system for DBs and thumbnail storage. Haven't looked into the details, but you may want to check it out before investing too much time...

 

Thanks for the info. I have a spare SSD laying around, so I may give that a shot for S&G. Right now I run the MySQL on my cache and my thumbnails are all over the place, so hopefully I'll see some improvement. I hadn't heard about the change to DBs and Thumbnails for libraries.

 

Unfortunately I'll be away from home next week on vacation (OK, not *that* unfortunate) and this weekend is already booked, but when I get back I'll probably have the time to give it a try. If anyone else has experience with it or an opinion on it, I'd still love to hear about it.

 

Thanks once more!

FYI XBMC frodo changes the way art caching works and does some magic to maintain a local cache and server share.

 

The actual logic are a mystery though as no one I have talked to yet knows how it actually works (including 3 XBMC devs)

 

 

dont cache thumbs with Frodo, only mysql DB.

 

in Frodo thumb artwork original url are stored in Library, then each xbmc client download tumbnails and fanart in texture.db file (local).

 

I try to explain here

 

The Frodo caching thing is above my head at this point . I think I'll need to use it before I completely understand it, then I'll have an "Ah-ha" moment.

 

Any clue when Frodo comes out? Is it worth me taking the time to throw these guys onto an SSD if I have one laying around? I'm pretty obsessive with computer tasks, and anything I can do to tinker more is always a welcome distraction

Humm... XBMC Frodo (Stable Version) not this year.

 

Certainly only in the first months of 2013...

 

dont cache thumbs with Frodo, only mysql DB.

 

in Frodo thumb artwork original url are stored in Library, then each xbmc client download tumbnails and fanart in texture.db file (local).

 

I try to explain here

 

 

Yes but textures.db is local... so how does it know what to download

 

Edit:

 

So art urls are stored in mysql (central) and textures is synced with mysql and stored local? Does this mean each XBMC downloads from the internet the art each ?

 

dont cache thumbs with Frodo, only mysql DB.

 

in Frodo thumb artwork original url are stored in Library, then each xbmc client download tumbnails and fanart in texture.db file (local).

 

I try to explain here

 

 

Yes but textures.db is local... so how does it know what to download

 

Edit:

 

So art urls are stored in mysql (central) and textures is synced with mysql and stored local? Does this mean each XBMC downloads from the internet the art each ?

 

Yes it is, using the URL stored in MySQL (plain text). I have 2 XBMC clients, raspberry and Atom ION, and only one update the unraid-mysql-library daily (via cron). This first client put artworks urls in database and when open the second client no scan should be done, at all. It download itself, if you are in the movie/tvshow menu you can see how appear new thumbs.

 

If I choose change manually one thumbnail or fanart in the second XBMC client then change at same time in the first XBMC. All sync bidirectional because only one database used.

 

If you want to rebuild all your arts, need to delete the texture.db file. XBMC create new one.

 

Summary, Frodo database manage media and arts.

 

So let me spell this out with an example. Please correct me...

 

Three devices:

 

XBMC-A

XBMC-B

SQL server

 

SQL server contains a central database with the entire XBMC library.

XBMC-A is told to scan for new content.

New content is added to the library on SQL.

Artwork is downloaded to XBMC-A

At the same time XBMC-A populates SQL with the hash of the source URL of the art.

XBMC-A now syncs the URL of art to its local SQLITE dbase called textures.db from SQL

 

 

 

XBMC-B turns on.

XBMC-B now syncs the URL of art to its local SQLITE dbase called textures.db from SQL

XBMC-B now connects to the internet and downloads any missing art

 

 

In this example there is not path substitution or central storage are for art.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So not exactly but kind of sort of like Plex. I like the way it currently is, but that make sense as more people begin to use multi room setups and more beginners start to use it, this makes it easier for them.

 

I just upgraded my server over the weekend and the artwork is loading way faster now (movies was the problem; ~ 2300+ took a while to get into AND it took a moment too long to show the covers).

 

I may still do this for S&G, as I do have a spare SSD laying about, but I'll wait until I'm back from vacation; I used all of my wife's goodwill up yesterday putting together the new guy

 

Thanks everyone; keep replying if you have ideas, suggestions or information. The more out there the better (particularly for other people for the future).

So let me spell this out with an example. Please correct me...

 

Three devices:

 

XBMC-A

XBMC-B

SQL server

 

SQL server contains a central database with the entire XBMC library.

XBMC-A is told to scan for new content.

New content is added to the library on SQL.

Artwork is downloaded to XBMC-A

At the same time XBMC-A populates SQL with the hash of the source URL of the art.

XBMC-A now syncs the URL of art to its local SQLITE dbase called textures.db from SQL

 

 

 

XBMC-B turns on.

XBMC-B now syncs the URL of art to its local SQLITE dbase called textures.db from SQL

XBMC-B now connects to the internet and downloads any missing art

 

In this example there is not path substitution or central storage are for art.

 

yes, that is (without path substitution or central storage). Any changes in the SQL Server change local texture.db and then each XBMC download file to local storage.

 

Looking inside texture db there is only 4 tables, (in my 2nd XBMC that I only use for movies - share sources but I never browse tvshows):

 

path - small table - some tvbd tvshows paths

sizes - big table - width - height - use count and last time used

texture - same rows than sizes table - link media files to a cache url

version - only 1 row - indicates the XX number after textureXX.db (frodo increase all db number and this is a problem because you need to have all XMBC clients at same number = almost same nightly version)

 

Another thing I forgot. It´s not necessary share sources.xml but I did via path substitution to unraid, in both xbmc clients. Really if you always scan from one machine only that machine need sources but well.... I share sources.xml  Same thing here, If I add-moddify-delete a source in one machine changes in other (logic  )

 

my advanced settings in atom ION (in raspberry I use dirty regions)

 

<advancedsettings>

<videodatabase>
   <type>mysql</type>
   <host>192.168.1.33</host>
   <port>3306</port>
   <user>xbmc</user>
   <pass>xbmc</pass>
</videodatabase>

<musicdatabase>
   <type>mysql</type>
   <host>192.168.1.33</host>
   <port>3306</port>
   <user>xbmc</user>
   <pass>xbmc</pass>
</musicdatabase>


<pathsubstitution>
   <substitute>
     <from>special://masterprofile/sources.xml</from>
     <to>nfs://192.168.1.33/mnt/user/Apps/xbmc/xbmc/sources.xml</to>
   </substitute>
</pathsubstitution>


</advancedsettings>

 

Excellent that explains the missing info I could never get.

 

Have you any idea if the Eden > Frodo upgrade reuses existing art or does it redownload it.

 

The reason I ask is that i have > 250,000 art files and that is alot to re-donwload so if I have to then I need to plan it.

For my own setup, I went with the mysql db and thumbnails on one drive route. Works well for me. Watched movie and paused position is retained for movies/shows between all media players.

 

I have the db and the thumbs all stored on the cache drive, but I found initially that there was quite a lengthy pause before the thumbs would show up for me in XBMC. I upgraded the cache drive to an ssd, and now thumbs appear almost as fast as they did when they were being stored locally on the media player. An outside-of-the-array ssd would work fine, but I figure may as well get some other use out of it as well...

 

Now, after all that, if memory serves me correctly, I believe the next version of XBMC has some sort of new system for DBs and thumbnail storage. Haven't looked into the details, but you may want to check it out before investing too much time...

 

Forgot to mention/ask this: How big of an SSD are you using and are you happy with the size?

Excellent that explains the missing info I could never get.

 

Have you any idea if the Eden > Frodo upgrade reuses existing art or does it redownload it.

 

The reason I ask is that i have > 250,000 art files and that is alot to re-donwload so if I have to then I need to plan it.

 

I don't remember if I did a clean install Eden -> Frodo or only update XBMC. If update I don't rembember either  if system redownloaded arts. Can't say   

 

I'm not an expert, or specialist, in XBMC but I now that in a initial scan local arts have priority if they were exported as singles files. That could help your migration.

Forgot to mention/ask this: How big of an SSD are you using and are you happy with the size?

 

I'm using a 256GB Crucial M4 I got on sale a few months ago, and it is more then enough for my purposes. Frankly, I could probably have gotten away with a smaller drive, but this one went on sale for $150 or so, and I figured it was worth it for the extra space...

 

I'm a huge fan of SSD drives (ugg. I know that the extra word 'drive' is not necessary, but the sentence sounds sounds so odd without it!  ), so if I ended up not needing the bigger drive, I would just swap it into another system .

Forgot to mention/ask this: How big of an SSD are you using and are you happy with the size?

 

My collection is significant and im looking at 11GB of files. If you had the multiart plugin this could triple. But your going some if you break 30GB of art images. I suspect theres no one that gets to this level.

 

Also Frodo because they have changed from hash of video path to hash of media source removes duplicates. XBMC Eden and older is FULL of duplicates.

Thumbnails collection is 27 gb on my drive

 

+- 5200 movies

+- 724 shows (238 active) | 33899/37469 episodes downloaded

 

Music i think about 84000 songs .. mediamonkey counts about 78000 but not everything is in there yet

 

Thumbnails folder is for the moment on a 1 TB hitachi 7200rpm but i am considering buying a vertex or agility 4 with 60gb space to speed up things

as now i need to wait a lot

 

Thats interesting. Video wise i have multiple times what you have listed but I don't use XBMC to track music. Would not have guessed it would make THAT much of a difference. Seems it does.

I've been thinking about doing this for quite sometime too. It's not clear to me though if any of you are running the SSD solely for thumbnail + mysql databases?

 

In other words, what I was considering is keeping my 1.5TB cache drive running all my plugins and doing a lot of the data rewriting from downloading and moving files while having an additional small SSD (maybe 30GB or so) mounted somehow as an 'external' drive to not waste a drive in the tower. To maintain some sort of redundancy, I'd envision a simple rsync script to copy the SSD thumnail + mysql databases onto a small portion of the cache drive.

What you have to consider is the future method XBMC uses. The current (Eden) method uses path substitution in the advancedsettings.xml file to pretend the local thumbnail folder is somewhere else e.g on unRAID cache drive.

 

However the next version of XBMC (Frodo) due out probably January uses a different method. The central mysql dbase will teach each XBMC what images it should have locally and each XBMC will pull those images directly from the internet to its local cache folder.

 

Whilst Frodo supports path substitution it is not designed to work this way e.g. it doesn't expect more than one XBMC to be trying to write the same file at the same time.

 

It will probably work OK and if you only ever use one of your XBMCs to update your library it will probably work 100% but its not the way it is designed to work.

 

Eventually I would hope to see a central art folder that XBMC can look at first before going to the internet but that doesnt exist yet.

 

 

well however it will work with Frodo

you can still get a big speed change on your mysql

i just hope xbmc for atv will keep path substitution

don't see the atv being able to store 30 gb of thumbs

I can confirm you can still use the old central art way if you need to. Just need to be sure you dont update library from two boxes at same time (which i dont thnk XBMC allows you to do anyway).