Out of Office until Oct 3


limetech

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This thread should be closed.

+1

 

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Tapatalk 2

 

The best we could hope from that is for user with legitimate frustrations become more frustrated.

 

The way to solve an issue is not to try and silence users with that issue.

 

Everyone's opinion matters even though most/all of those opinions are similar and re-coccuring

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Completely agree, but I don't think this thread is the right place.

 

Just because I, as many others, am patient doesn't mean I don't agree with (most) users' frustrations.

 

Let's agree to disagree

 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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The lounge is the proper place for this, not in a out of office announcement.

 

No this location is fine. The OP references return date and expectations of release schedule, so commenting on lack of both is quite justifiable.

 

For those of us whom have been here for years this is an annoying reoccurring thread but were not here to police people to the extent of telling them their expectations of their purchase is incorrect. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion even if I don't quite agree with it.

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Agree jaybee.

 

Since this is still on the website about the company.

 

Lime Technology, LLC is a privately held company founded in 2005. Our company strives for the highest possible Customer satisfaction and Business integrity.

 

Failing at that in my opinion.

 

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And yes, I can post it here and any thread I want to thanks.

 

Actually, to be technical. You don't own this site and your posts and your account can be deleted whenever the owner feels like it.

 

It's amazing how many people feel they have "The Right" to post anything and everything they want on a message board they don't own.....

 

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In my experience Tom will post a new release sometime in the future, everyone will thank him for his hard work and the whole cycle starts again - promises/waiting/complaining/thanking.

 

what makes it a little harder to stomach this time is that he openly admitted that he is busy working on a hardware solution to sell for unraid....  That is obviously more important than checking back in after checking out.....

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My final two cents worth...

 

I bought unRaid fairly recently, and the primary factor for my decision was that it supports disk size > 2TB. Basically, that means I never used V4.7 and could not even if I wanted to. I ran trial using the limited version of unRaid and it seems satisfactory, and I checked that the release of the betas was quite regular. However, one of the review sites I researched did mention that unRaid was a "one-man show" and release of new versions was spotty. To be perfectly honest, I am running the latest beta and it is stable so I am quite happy with it. The only reason why I am checking regularly for the "final" version is that I plan to run additional add-on, i.e., Plex server, and would rather ran it on the "final" version, and leave it that. It is also true that it is a psychological reason that a logical one.

 

Some users complained regarding the lack of regular updates on the beta. Some do it as a matter of course, while others adopt sarcasm. There are always going to be arseholes. I use a lot of free software, and in their forums, there are those that nitpicks and complained all the time, usually until the developer give up in disgust.

 

unRaid is not in the category of free software, since money is paid and received. However, complaints or criticisms need NOT go overboard.

 

That being said, there are users here that seems to appoint themselves as guardian archangel of Tom, and defend him and unRaid, often to illogical ends. Moreover, defending unRaid for the sake of defending is self-defeating, as it only escalates and lead to flame war. To run a business, the objective is to earn as much money as possible, and good business practices help toward that objective. Pissing customers off are not logical. With friends like these, who need enemies?

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Some users complained regarding the lack of regular updates on the beta. Some do it as a matter of course, while others adopt sarcasm. There are always going to be arseholes. I use a lot of free software, and in their forums, there are those that nitpicks and complained all the time, usually until the developer give up in disgust.

 

unRaid is not in the category of free software, since money is paid and received. However, complaints or criticisms need NOT go overboard.

 

That being said, there are users here that seems to appoint themselves as guardian archangel of Tom, and defend him and unRaid, often to illogical ends. Moreover, defending unRaid for the sake of defending is self-defeating, as it only escalates and lead to flame war. To run a business, the objective is to earn as much money as possible, and good business practices help toward that objective. Pissing customers off are not logical. With friends like these, who need enemies?

 

+ 1 trillion  :o

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And yes, I can post it here and any thread I want to thanks.

 

Actually, to be technical. You don't own this site and your posts and your account can be deleted whenever the owner feels like it.

 

It's amazing how many people feel they have "The Right" to post anything and everything they want on a message board they don't own.....

 

;-) If you want to get" technical" about it people DO have the right to post anything they want.  On the flip side, the owner (aka Limetech) has the right to delete / ban as a result of that posting.  It is a subtle distinction, but a very important one where free speech is involved.  It is a dangerous concept to blithely dismiss someone's right to speak.

 

That said, even better than delete / ban is to counter an arguement.  The first, last, and best defense against too much Free Speech is MORE FREE SPEECH.  But I also realize Limetech certialy doesn't want the forums to digress into a pointless bickering hence his right to delete / ban.

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I mean, seriously, if Tom would come out with a the next release and called it V5 final everybody would be ok but with bet a XYZ we're not ?  That's just weird..

 

Indeed - I keep wondering what's in a name!  V4.7 has at least two faults, already fixed in the v5 beta cycle, which prejudice data integrity, yet many people refuse to move to v5 because it "isn't stable".

 

Actually, I think 4.7 has three known bugs that will corrupt data fixed in the 5.0-rc8a release, not two.

 

1.  The bug where a "write" to a disk could be lost during a re-construction or parity calc.  Work-around, do NOT write to an array during a re-construction or initial parity calc.

 

2.  The bug where an MBR on existing disks will be overwritten and result in it pointing to the WRONG sector. (this occurs when the super.dat file on the flash drive is rebuilt.... as when a flash drive dies and is replaced)  No work-around other than to keep a backup of your config folder, just in case your flash drive fails.

 

3.  The bug where a temporary file created on a disk, when renamed to the original name in a user-share other than the original physical disk does not unlink the original file, resulting in a duplicate file error AND the original contents NOT being re-written, leading to potential data loss.  No work-around, the use of temporary files is common on many file transfer/copy programs.  This bug exists on all but the very most recent 5. releases.

 

Joe L.

The above makes me think most people should be running the latest RC. The problem for many  is product positioning, the beta or even the RC "name" implies the software still has bugs that prevent in from being going final. I try to recommend Unraid whenever I can because I genuinely believe it is a great product, however people who have no experience with the product don't want to take the risk. Now I understand those that say they should run 4.7 if they are worried but that release is 2 years old with many key features (like support for>2TB disks) missing. As a product manager I can assure folks a lot is in a "name".
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And yes, I can post it here and any thread I want to thanks.

 

Actually, to be technical. You don't own this site and your posts and your account can be deleted whenever the owner feels like it.

 

It's amazing how many people feel they have "The Right" to post anything and everything they want on a message board they don't own.....

 

;-) If you want to get" technical" about it people DO have the right to post anything they want.  On the flip side, the owner (aka Limetech) has the right to delete / ban as a result of that posting.  It is a subtle distinction, but a very important one where free speech is involved.  It is a dangerous concept to blithely dismiss someone's right to speak.

 

That said, even better than delete / ban is to counter an arguement.  The first, last, and best defense against too much Free Speech is MORE FREE SPEECH.  But I also realize Limetech certialy doesn't want the forums to digress into a pointless bickering hence his right to delete / ban.

 

I should have been more clear. I've seen people posting about the right to free speech and complaining that certain posts were deleted.  These people can't fathom how a message board is privately owned and free speech doesn't apply.

 

You do realize that you can get banned for life, via different means to block access, which goes completely against your theory that anyone can post because that's how free speech works. The owner of the forum 100% can block your right to "free speech" on the forum they own.

 

 

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OT

 

To run a business, the objective is to earn as much money as possible, ...

 

that a very black and white statement

that can the objective of  a business. but is not so for every business.

Precisely. As a one man shop, Tom is perfectly justified in balancing stress vs. income. If he chooses to work less and get paid less, that's his right. If he has determined through long experience that responding to every demanding post here doesn't actually increase his income enough to balance the stress and hassle (even if it's miniscule) then he can make the decision to not communicate publicly until he's ready. I'd rather he spend quality time coding and bring out a product sooner than to have him spend time answering every complaint here. Life is too short to try to please everybody. 
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OT

 

To run a business, the objective is to earn as much money as possible, ...

 

that a very black and white statement

that can the objective of  a business. but is not so for every business.

Precisely. As a one man shop, Tom is perfectly justified in balancing stress vs. income. If he chooses to work less and get paid less, that's his right. If he has determined through long experience that responding to every demanding post here doesn't actually increase his income enough to balance the stress and hassle (even if it's miniscule) then he can make the decision to not communicate publicly until he's ready. I'd rather he spend quality time coding and bring out a product sooner than to have him spend time answering every complaint here. Life is too short to try to please everybody.

 

Are you Tom under another pseudonym? You seem to speak for Tom as though you are him. If that is the case, you should put clearly in Lime Technology's website that what is paid for is only version 4.7 and Lime Technology is under NO obligations whatsoever to support V5 or provide a stable release of V5, now or anytime in the future. AND could I have my money back, since earnings are clearly not an important factor in this business. Once that is done, I will shut up and erase myself from this forum.

 

IF you are not Tom, why is it that you feel the need to defend each and every complaint against Lime Technology. Even the forum moderators understand that customers complain to vent their frustrations, and this forum is pretty much the only avenue to do so "in-house". If customers continue to vent, at least that means they are still customers. It is when they give up that Tom have cause to worry. Yet, your "fan-boy" mentality in defending every slight, imagined or otherwise, only exacerbates the situation. Your stance seems to be  that everyone who bought unRaid should tailor their expectations to Tom and Lime Technology, rather than have Tom trying to meet his customer's expectation. You know the problem with that? Nobody seems to know what to expect from Tom,.

 

So now we holding it wrong?

 

One way to make all the complaints stop is to issue a simply directive and that is that users would complain should just to using unRaid and banned permanently from this forum. Go ahead and banned me and every single user that complain in this forum.

 

If you have a solution, like many other volunteers in this forum to help other users with their technical issues, then I imagined that will be more than helpful to Tom and Lime Technology. If you do not have a solution, perhaps like some of the moderators here, make supportive comments and offer encouragement. Even silence would be a better option than dissing every single person that made a complaint.

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Other than a patch to resolve the issues in 4.7, in my mind Tom doesn't "owe us" anything.  (Meaning we bought 4.7, he's kind enough to keep letting us upgrade as he issues new versions.)

 

My real concern though is potential future customers, especially for the new product that he will be marketing.  To me it wasn't really meant for the average consumer, but for businesses.

 

They might be concerned about the lack of communication - even though he does seem to continue to provide good email support.

 

So in my mind, the unfortunate thing is that all of this could be avoided by very simple posts every 1-2 weeks with an update that shows everyone he cares; even if no progress has been made.  I truly believe he cares - actually, I just know it... but the lack of simple 1-2 sentence posts every now and then gets everyone all worried, and that eventually escalates into to frustration.  (Which I honestly believe does impact future sales)

 

I coach the engineers on my team with some communication essentials.  One of them as an example is if someone emails you and asks you to perform a task that takes a lot of effort, and you start to take it on...  It goes a long way to email them back and let them know you're working on it.  If you just begin the work without informing, a few days later the requestor gets frustrated and thinks you don't care about their needs.  And if it takes a really long time, keep them informed as you progress...  That you haven't forgotten about it.

 

It goes a long way to generating credibility...  And lasting loyalty...

 

It's really quite elementary, but you'd be amazed how many people don't think about such things.

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To address two more points raised by jonathanm regarding my complaint:-

 

1. Only V4.7 is stable and this is what users paid for. All V5 betas are provided from the wellspring of Lime Technology's goodwill and love for humankind.

 

First problem with this. In Lime's Technology download page, the first download in the latest beta. V4.7 is way down in the list. This imply that Lime Tech recommend to new users to use the latest beta since its is the first most obvious choice in the download page. Nonetheless, this is a bit subjective. The biggest issue? To use unlimited version of V5, i.e., support for more than 3 disks, you need to pay for the registration code. So if you paid to fully activate unRaid V5 beta, where does this leave you as to your status as customer? Did you just paid for 4.7 or did you pay for a beta software? Should anyone have to pay to use beta software?

 

Solution: All betas will are full featured, i.e., full number of disks supported. A time limit can be put on usability of the software, be it one month or one year, which should be the estimated time for release of a new beta or final version. That way, if Tom decides to take another 3 years for release of the final version, who are we to complain, since we are getting the current beta for free? Of course, that means Tom will be out of pocket for everyone who paid and uses UnRaid  V5, which leads to the 2nd point.

 

2. Objective of a business is to earn money. Since there are users who think this should not be the "MAIN" objective, then letting users use free beta should not pose any problem. Yet, Tom decides to maximize his earnings by setting the 3 disks limits on all versions of unRaid, final and beta. I wonder how Tom paid for his family holiday in Hawaii?

 

As well, I cannot find anywhere on Lime Tech's website, forum or wiki as to its status as a not-for-profit organization. Perhaps Lime Tech is a religious organization? Maybe that is why jonathanm feels so evangelical that Lime Tech could do no wrong, and we should just all BELIEVE and have FAITH?

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