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Well Limetech certainly have an unusual business model: develop a good product and then piss off all of the customers enough that they start to argue with each other.

 

Tom could quite easily put a stop to all of this nonsense, he visits the forum most days and I'm sure he knows exactly what is going on in this thread, that's what really annoys me.

 

 

 

 

 

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Not everyone has problems. The 3 beta release i tried all work for me.

My issues were user errors, wrong hardware choice (in relation to my expectations) and hard to find instructions.

 

I can store movies, and i can access them from my media player, thats where i bought the product for, and that works good for me.

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Tom treats this like a fan forum -- celebs rarely post in their unofficial fan forums, but some of them will visit them regularly, have a look around, then leave.

 

This is not a fan forum for a celeb. It's an official forum for a product.

 

Those who keep saying "You only paid for 4.7" are deluded. That would be fine, were it not for the fact that 5.0 has been promoted on the official site and offered for download. It's not a closed beta.

 

And, after spending over $100 on a product, it's not unreasonable to ask why it's been in Beta for literally years and the company won't answer reasonable questions like "When will it be out of Beta?" and "Can you help me with this problem with the current version of your product?"

 

Another significant factor is that most new add-ons for unRAID are being developed for 5.x. and not 4.7. You can't run plugins with 4.7.

I wasn't planning on upgrading to 5.x until it went final, but I've been kind of pushed in to it in order to be able to try out new add-ons.

 

I'm happy running 5.x and have no real issues with treating it as a stable platform, but I can understand people having frustrations at not having their questions answered and 5.x being officially presented as an "unstable, test-only" platform, when clearly that's not how people are using it.

 

And yes, for newcomers to unRAID, it makes Limetech look like they're either amateurs or have abandoned support. That can't be good for business.

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I've tried to stay out of this thread since it degraded to a pudding match, but there are a few points that seem to be off.

 

First, there is no implied, obliged or promised contract to fix bugs. It is a good faith ideal at best. In the license that is included in every download is a notice removing all obligations to do so, and removing any legal pretense for a suit based on that. Which isn't to say limetech is trying to pull something shady, almost all paid software includes a similar if not exact notice.

 

Not saying it would make it impossible, I'm not a lawyer and by no means am saying I'm an expert on law, I'm sure there are lawyers out there that could twist it into a win.

 

Another point is the add-ons. They are developed by users and are in no way supported by limetech. Limetech created the basic framework for plugins, nothing more.

 

I'm not condoning the silence of limetech, it annoys me as well, but I'm not all for this type of debate either. Everyone is arguing with other users, none of which hold any position with limetech. These arguments are 100% useless, and have served no purpose except to alleviate stress, which I suspect it has probably caused more than it alleviated.

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The main consideration for the lawyer taking this case is whether he or she has a good chance of winning, as their fees will be based on winning the case and the size of the judgement.

 

... and the size of the judgement has to be in proportion to the demonstrable losses actually incurred.

 

 

.... I have been a plaintiff in a law suit

 

Wow!!! I'm in awe of your impressive legal qualifications!

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Here is the funny thing. It is users like squirrellydw who seems to be egging me on and challenging to proceed with the law suit. While I am NOT a lawyer, I have been a plaintiff in a law suit and I certainly know how to hire a lawyer.

I'm not egging you on, it's because you are talking crap with a lawsuit and claim you know the laws in other countries.  You sound like some guy that said he was going to take me to small claims court, file a claim with a collection agency and have my wages garnished because HE didn't send me the correct thing on eBay. I filed a claim on eBay to have my money refunded and won and sent the item back to him.  You need to learn the law before you start threatening action, the guy can't do any of that because we are in two different states plus other reasons.  I'm not saying you can't sue but I doubt you would win or even have a solid case.  I personally don't think you have any intention of suing, I think you want to scare Tom so he posts something. You bought a paid for 4.7, not 5 which is still in beta.  Tom said he wanted to try and release it before vacation but that didn't happen because he ran out of time.  So he is working on it and when it's released it will be released.  Could Tom update us more often, of course and that would be great but if he doesn't than let it be. He will post when he has something ready to say. Otherwise he may say he hopes to release it tomorrow and when it's not released we will start all over with this. That's why I don't like release dates, release it when you are ready and don't give any dates.

 

 

Limetech visits the forum often, If he had an update worthy of communicating on, he would have posted it.

This is how it has worked for many years. Relax, I'm sure there is work progressing behind the scene.

 

Thank you and well said.

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Those who keep saying "You only paid for 4.7" are deluded. That would be fine, were it not for the fact that 5.0 has been promoted on the official site and offered for download. It's not a closed beta.

 

You paid for v4.7 or the possibility to use any the 5.0beta versions available to download at the time you plunked your cash down. Regardless of the slow development, if you plunked your cash down expecting v5.0 to be released within a certain number of days then that's on you for creating that expectation.

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Folks, enough of this talk of law suits. It's way off topic and you can discuss it privately among yourselves or in the lounge.

 

 

Let's be real here. Do you want to encourage or discourage future growth here?

It's useless to continue in this line of thought, and within this thread.

 

 

It's not that the business has stopped functioning or failed to deliver.

It's functioning in a manner that does not meet a particular expectation.

If you feel that strongly about it.

Please contact limetech directly and ask for your money back.

I'm sure you would be refunded if that's what you really want.

 

 

There's no need to go down this road or even discuss it here.

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Other than the talk of a lawsuit (which is absurd!) the complaints I read are valid and reasonable.  I've not read anyone with unrealistic or grand expectations of unRAID or Tom.  Reasonable time between releases and a bit of communication are all that most people seem to want to be happy. 

 

Some people seem to think you are never right to complain, but that's ridiculous.  The situation with unRAID is a completely valid reason for some mild complaints which is mostly what's been going on here.  Most of the problems seem to stem from people trying to invalidate  the point of view of those with a complaint.  That just upsets people and creates arguing.  Why not just let them post their complaints without someone posting a rebuttal?  Tom can fight his own battles and reply to the complaints if he wants (although we all know he won't).  There's no need for posters to come to his defense.

 

 

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Other than the talk of a lawsuit (which is absurd!) the complaints I read are valid and reasonable.  I've not read anyone with unrealistic or grand expectations of unRAID or Tom.  Reasonable time between releases and a bit of communication are all that most people seem to want to be happy. 

 

Some people seem to think you are never right to complain, but that's ridiculous.  The situation with unRAID is a completely valid reason for some mild complaints which is mostly what's been going on here.  Most of the problems seem to stem from people trying to invalidate  the point of view of those with a complaint.  That just upsets people and creates arguing.  Why not just let them post their complaints without someone posting a rebuttal?  Tom can fight his own battles and reply to the complaints if he wants (although we all know he won't).  There's no need for posters to come to his defense.

 

Hear, hear. 

 

And in response to Weebotech's question about wanting to encourage or discourage growth, I wouldn't dream of recommending unRAID to anyone these days.  I actively discourage it on other forums- telling people they should at least wait until v5 is released as an act of commitment by unRAID.  I guess that means I'd discourage growth now.  I wouldn't want to see Tom's behavior rewarded here.

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Other than the talk of a lawsuit (which is absurd!) the complaints I read are valid and reasonable.  I've not read anyone with unrealistic or grand expectations of unRAID or Tom.  Reasonable time between releases and a bit of communication are all that most people seem to want to be happy. 

 

Some people seem to think you are never right to complain, but that's ridiculous.  The situation with unRAID is a completely valid reason for some mild complaints which is mostly what's been going on here.  Most of the problems seem to stem from people trying to invalidate  the point of view of those with a complaint.  That just upsets people and creates arguing.  Why not just let them post their complaints without someone posting a rebuttal?  Tom can fight his own battles and reply to the complaints if he wants (although we all know he won't).  There's no need for posters to come to his defense.

 

This is the first post I see that gets the point! Congratulations.

 

I don't even have an issue with other users coming to Tom's defense, but if they decide that derision and insults are the way to do it, then what is good enough for the goose, it should be good enough for the gander. From that point onwards, it is natural for things to escalate.

 

As ridiculous and juvenile this thread seems to be, it has evolved to a stage where I personally think a lawsuit is not only feasible but necessary. If we take away all the insults or derision, and disregards all the users who complain or the users who complain that other users have the affront to complain, then all that is left is the simple fact that there is pretty much nothing any users can do to get an official response from Limetech. It might be the time for Tom to have a reality check.

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...simple fact that there is pretty much nothing any users can do to get an official response from Limetech....

 

Have you tried to contact Limetech or are you just "taking up a cause" to be vendictive because you're not happy with your purchase? You've fully admitted you purchased unRAID with the expectation that the final release is imminent. There is no legal obligation for Limetech to provide any type of regular updates. What do you think you can do, force Limetech to do that?

 

You, and everyone else can complain about the lack of updates if you want. However, it won't accomplish anything useful. That doesn't mean the updates and development time is right or wrong, it's just the facts.

 

I'll repeat it again. You purchased unRAID when there was a v4.7 and some different V5.0beta versions available. Your license means you get to use those version. You created false expectations all by yourself which is your own fault if you believed that the beta versions being available means you should be getting V5.0 within a certain time period after your purchase. It's time to put your big boy pants on and take some blame for the purchase failing your expectations.

 

Everyone else, I wouldn't worry about this "class action lawsuit". Worst case this could amount to would be some small claims BS suit. And when this clown can't even prove that he attempted to return his purchase and that the return was denied by Limetech, the judge will likely tell him to take a hike.

 

I'd especially like to see how many of the people here would feel about standing up in a court of law and explaining to a judge how the failings of their Limetech software meant they missed out watching their illegal downloads.

 

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This is the first post I see that gets the point! Congratulations.

 

I don't even have an issue with other users coming to Tom's defense, but if they decide that derision and insults are the way to do it, then what is good enough for the goose, it should be good enough for the gander. From that point onwards, it is natural for things to escalate.

 

As ridiculous and juvenile this thread seems to be, it has evolved to a stage where I personally think a lawsuit is not only feasible but necessary. If we take away all the insults or derision, and disregards all the users who complain or the users who complain that other users have the affront to complain, then all that is left is the simple fact that there is pretty much nothing any users can do to get an official response from Limetech. It might be the time for Tom to have a reality check.

 

Folks, enough of this talk of law suits. It's way off topic and you can discuss it privately among yourselves or in the lounge.

 

 

Let's be real here. Do you want to encourage or discourage future growth here?

It's useless to continue in this line of thought, and within this thread.

 

 

It's not that the business has stopped functioning or failed to deliver.

It's functioning in a manner that does not meet a particular expectation.

If you feel that strongly about it.

Please contact limetech directly and ask for your money back.

I'm sure you would be refunded if that's what you really want.

 

 

There's no need to go down this road or even discuss it here.

 

dude, can you not read the first sentence from Weebo??  stop posting it this crap about lawsuits.  Show me where LimeTech gave a date when it would be final?

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LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

In no event will Lime Technology be liable for any lost profits or

business opportunities, loss of use, business interruption, loss of data, or

any other indirect, special, incidental, or consequential damages under any

theory of liability, whether based in contract, tort, negligence, product

liability, or otherwise.  This limitation shall apply regardless of whether

Lime Technology has been advised of the possibility of such damages.

 

 

That seems pretty clear cut...

 

And as for reasonable release timeframes, 90% of this wait has been due to buggy drivers and code in the linux kernel. The kernel 4.7 was based on was stable, he could have left it there and said to hell with supporting new hardware, but he didn't and that is where the wait has came in. Linux is a large community effort, we can't expect him to be able to fix those issues. So we have been in this long release cycle.

 

Would I like new releases more often? Yes

 

Would I like more communication? Yes

 

Tom has stated the code could have been marked stable but he didn't for hope of fixing hardware errors before release. He wants to provide a plugin manager as well. I don't fault him on either of these points.

 

Other companies, ones much larger than limetech, take much longer between releases, at the minimum I'd say the same length. He could turn into Microsoft and have a new release more often, just slap a new UI on it and call it upgraded.

 

I understand both sides, but each side flaming the other isn't going to accomplish anything. Feathers were ruffled, go smooth them out and come back fresh. If you have serious doubts of the future, ask for a refund and choose another piece of software. But we would enjoy keeping you onboard with the community as well.

 

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LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

In no event will Lime Technology be liable for any lost profits or

business opportunities, loss of use, business interruption, loss of data, or

any other indirect, special, incidental, or consequential damages under any

theory of liability, whether based in contract, tort, negligence, product

liability, or otherwise.  This limitation shall apply regardless of whether

Lime Technology has been advised of the possibility of such damages.

 

 

That seems pretty clear cut...

 

And as for reasonable release timeframes, 90% of this wait has been due to buggy drivers and code in the linux kernel. The kernel 4.7 was based on was stable, he could have left it there and said to hell with supporting new hardware, but he didn't and that is where the wait has came in. Linux is a large community effort, we can't expect him to be able to fix those issues. So we have been in this long release cycle.

 

Would I like new releases more often? Yes

 

Would I like more communication? Yes

 

Tom has stated the code could have been marked stable but he didn't for hope of fixing hardware errors before release. He wants to provide a plugin manager as well. I don't fault him on either of these points.

 

Other companies, ones much larger than limetech, take much longer between releases, at the minimum I'd say the same length. He could turn into Microsoft and have a new release more often, just slap a new UI on it and call it upgraded.

 

I understand both sides, but each side flaming the other isn't going to accomplish anything. Feathers were ruffled, go smooth them out and come back fresh. If you have serious doubts of the future, ask for a refund and choose another piece of software. But we would enjoy keeping you onboard with the community as well.

 

 

thank you for posting this, very well said and on point.  I am sorry if I offended anyone.

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A lot of people keep saying the same thing, that version 5 was not what was paid for etc. I agree. I am not disputing this. I paid for a 4.7 licence and want a finished 4.7 product. 4.7 has major bugs and is therefore not deemed fit for purpose. Tom said he would fix this nearly 1.5 years ago with a 4.7.1 release. This has not been done because he has focused on finishing version 5, which in turn would eradicate the need for version 4.7.1. It is not our fault that he has chosen to go this route.

 

Therefore, finishing version 5 is a justifiable argument for delivering a product that even works properly. None of the version 5 BETA builds have yet been bug free and even if they were, they are still just that, BETA builds. They are not final.

 

I am quite happy to ask for a refund and will be persuing this at a point where I literally have given up all hope of Tom fixing this mess. That time is fast approaching for me personally and I feel as a customer I have been patient.

 

My posts on these forums do not abuse Tom, they are my feelings as to the situation and the way he has let down customers. I would be saying this to his face and any of my personal friends too if it were them in this position. The very fact I do it via a forum does not change the way I would say it. Tom, you have and are letting paying customers down and you need to fix things very quickly as time is running out.

 

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A lot of people keep saying the same thing, that version 5 was not what was paid for etc. I agree. I am not disputing this. I paid for a 4.7 licence and want a finished 4.7 product. 4.7 has major bugs and is therefore not deemed fit for purpose. Tom said he would fix this nearly 1.5 years ago with a 4.7.1 release. This has not been done because he has focused on finishing version 5, which in turn would eradicate the need for version 4.7.1. It is not our fault that he has chosen to go this route.

 

Therefore, finishing version 5 is a justifiable argument for delivering a product that even works properly. None of the version 5 BETA builds have yet been bug free and even if they were, they are still just that, BETA builds. They are not final.

 

I am quite happy to ask for a refund and will be persuing this at a point where I literally have given up all hope of Tom fixing this mess. That time is fast approaching for me personally and I feel as a customer I have been patient.

 

My posts on these forums do not abuse Tom, they are my feelings as to the situation and the way he has let down customers. I would be saying this to his face and any of my personal friends too if it were them in this position. The very fact I do it via a forum does not change the way I would say it. Tom, you have and are letting paying customers down and you need to fix things very quickly as time is running out.

Finally - criticism that doesn't sound like someone trying to start a flame war.  All valid points.
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If anyone thinks that a software with bugs isn't finished they need to step back.  This kind of thinking isn't part of the real world.  If it were, we'd all still be running DOS.  :o

 

 

A product that is designed to provide redundancy and reliable storage of data, which exactly fails at this point due to major (unfixed) bugs, is a failure. If this were to be addressed within a reasonable time frame, this would be fine. 1.5 years is not reasonable. A lack of communication generally to customers that have paid for the product, is unreasonable.

 

 

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