EXPIRED:4TB External ("internal") Seagate Barracuda XT drives at Costco for $159

[c3]

To bad these are the 5 platter design and not the 4 platter ones.

 

5 Platter designs are good for RANDOM I/O.

 

I'd like to see the math behind that statement. This drive has the same average latency, 4.16ms.

 

Less head movement from what I remember.

 

In other hitachi designs that had 5 platters there was a measured improvement of random I/O.

It was slower in some sequential I/O but faster in Random I/O.

It was a while back. I don't remember the article or where I read it.

 

You're saying the lower density platters have faster access times. So older (5 platter) drives are faster than newer (4 platter) higher density drives. That's not a trend the market would allow.

 

I do believe the hitachi 5 platter benchmarked faster than the seagate drive with 1TB platters, but lots of variables in there. One was a 4TB the other 3TB, and the difference was very small.

 

The 1TB platters will have more, smaller movements, while the 5 platter has fewer, bigger movements AND more mass to start stop.

[WeeboTech]

You're saying the lower density platters have faster access times. So older (5 platter) drives are faster than newer (4 platter) higher density drives. That's not a trend the market would allow.

 

Actually I didn't say faster access times.  I said less head movement.  i.e. if you have more cylinders.

 

In the old days on mainframes, more platters meant faster access when there was heavy I/O from multiple applications.

 

It's based on Random I/O. I believe something like vmware or bittorrent might benefit.

Something where you are accessing one large file in a sequential manner probably would benefit from a denser platter.

 

I've read articles where they compared seagate 4 platter designs vs hitachi 5 platter designs of the same size.

The benchmarks showed 'almost' equal speed for sequential (seagate inched ahead) and higher speed for the hitachi 5 platter design for random I/O.

 

It depends on your usage pattern and concurrency.

[c3]

I'd like to see the article on a shipping 4TB drive using only 4 platters.

[WeeboTech]

I'd like to see the article on a shipping 4TB drive using only 4 platters.

me too. 

Stop putting words out there that I have not said.

I never said there was a shipping 4TB drive using only 4 platters. I never said there was an article comparing 4TB drives.

All I said was

5 platter designs are good for Random I/O.

I read a comparison of the same sized seagate vs hitachi quite a while back that showed the numbers.

It was around the 2TB / 3TB era. Not now.

I said specifically.

It was a while back. I don't remember the article or where I read it.

[Johnm]

In general, more platters = better IO and seek time. the problem is that you're comparing 800GB platters vs 1TB platters. this would need all new testing.  my 3TB drives with the 1TB platters preclear much faster then my 4 and 5 platter 3TB drives.

 

the drive density is very different between the two drives.  the 4 platter will be faster for continuous read write by its very nature of moving more data in the same rotation. 

 

 

with a fan mine are holding stable at 41c. I am not to worried about burning it out during preclears. After all, thats the purpose of the preclear, see if the drive is going to hold up in stress (and if it shipped with defects).

The first thing I noticed when i Opened the box, it was half the thickness of my Hitachi and WD 3TB drives.

 

@korith, I do plan on keeping one in its USB for a while. I am surprised at how well it performs as a usb3 drive. I usually take a Hitachi 3TB drive with me when I travel. This is going to replace it.  Less luggage space and more storage space.

[WeeboTech]

What is your preclear throughput on the 4TB drive at the start?

 

When I was testing the 3TB 7200 rpm Seagate in the proliant N54L, I was getting 195MB/s for at least 50% of the drive.

[c3]

I'd like to see the article on a shipping 4TB drive using only 4 platters.

me too. 

Stop putting words out there that I have not said.

I never said there was a shipping 4TB drive using only 4 platters. I never said there was an article comparing 4TB drives.

All I said was

5 platter designs are good for Random I/O.

I read a comparison of the same sized seagate vs hitachi quite a while back that showed the numbers.

It was around the 2TB / 3TB era. Not now.

I said specifically.

It was a while back. I don't remember the article or where I read it.

 

Sorry, my head has the thread title stuck in it, 4TB drives. I've been using 4TB drives for almost two years, so I have many old articles half remembered in there.

[Johnm]

What is your preclear throughput on the 4TB drive at the start?

 

When I was testing the 3TB 7200 rpm Seagate in the proliant N54L, I was getting 195MB/s for at least 50% of the drive.

 

It was 145MB/s - 98MB/s at the tail

It took approximately 39 hours to preclear 1 pass (on an I7-3770k W/ 16GB ram)

[ufopinball]

What is your preclear throughput on the 4TB drive at the start?

 

When I was testing the 3TB 7200 rpm Seagate in the proliant N54L, I was getting 195MB/s for at least 50% of the drive.

 

It was 145MB/s - 98MB/s at the tail

It took approximately 39 hours to preclear 1 pass (on an I7-3770k W/ 16GB ram)

 

I'm preclearing my second Seagate 4TB drive now ... the first one completed in 36:20:21 using an AMD Phenom 9950 Quad Core with 8GB of RAM.

 

CPU and memory aside, I am actually seeing better performance on a 4TB by using the Adaptec 1430SA PCI-E x4 SATAII port, as opposed to a (ASUS M3A78-T) motherbord SATAII port.

[Johnm]

What is your preclear throughput on the 4TB drive at the start?

 

When I was testing the 3TB 7200 rpm Seagate in the proliant N54L, I was getting 195MB/s for at least 50% of the drive.

 

It was 145MB/s - 98MB/s at the tail

It took approximately 39 hours to preclear 1 pass (on an I7-3770k W/ 16GB ram)

 

 

I'm preclearing my second Seagate 4TB drive now ... the first one completed in 36:20:21 using an AMD Phenom 9950 Quad Core with 8GB of RAM.

 

CPU and memory aside, I am actually seeing better performance on a 4TB by using the Adaptec 1430SA PCI-E x4 SATAII port, as opposed to a (ASUS M3A78-T) motherbord SATAII port.

 

Is that the  XT with 5 platters or the newer 4 platter drive?

I  am on the sata2 port on my mobile ITX (Asrock) desktop rig.

[ufopinball]

What is your preclear throughput on the 4TB drive at the start?

 

When I was testing the 3TB 7200 rpm Seagate in the proliant N54L, I was getting 195MB/s for at least 50% of the drive.

 

It was 145MB/s - 98MB/s at the tail

It took approximately 39 hours to preclear 1 pass (on an I7-3770k W/ 16GB ram)

 

 

I'm preclearing my second Seagate 4TB drive now ... the first one completed in 36:20:21 using an AMD Phenom 9950 Quad Core with 8GB of RAM.

 

CPU and memory aside, I am actually seeing better performance on a 4TB by using the Adaptec 1430SA PCI-E x4 SATAII port, as opposed to a (ASUS M3A78-T) motherbord SATAII port.

 

Is that the  XT with 5 platters or the newer 4 platter drive?

I  am on the sata2 port on my mobile ITX (Asrock) desktop rig.

 

How does one tell?  Two drives show model ST4000DX000-1CL, and one drive shows model ST4000DM000-1CD.

 

The ST4000DM000-1CD is being precleared while still in the enclosure, so I haven't had a look at the physical drive label yet.

[dirtysanchez]

To the best of my knowledge the only way to truly tell is via the serial number, and even then it's not entirely certain.

 

This is my understanding of their meaning (I could be wrong):

 

Example serial number W1Exxxxx

 

W = manufacturing location (S = Suzhou China, W = Wuxi China, Z = Korat Thailand)

1 = platter type/density (1 = 1TB/platter, 2 = 500GB/platter)

E = 4 heads (F = 6 heads, D = 2 heads)

[Johnm]

If I'm not mistaken. the ST4000DM000 is the 8 head 4 platter version.

the DX is the older XT version (5 platter)

 

I would guess your DX's pre-read at about 145MB/s and the DM's pre-read closer to 190MB/s at least at first.

[WeeboTech]

and the DM's pre-read closer to 190MB/s at least at first.

That's what I'm getting on the 3TB 1TB platter version. (ST3000DM001)

 

 

[ufopinball]

To the best of my knowledge the only way to truly tell is via the serial number, and even then it's not entirely certain.

 

This is my understanding of their meaning (I could be wrong):

 

Example serial number W1Exxxxx

 

W = manufacturing location (S = Suzhou China, W = Wuxi China, Z = Korat Thailand)

1 = platter type/density (1 = 1TB/platter, 2 = 500GB/platter)

E = 4 heads (F = 6 heads, D = 2 heads)

 

I only have three serial numbers so far on the Seagate 4TB:

 

Z1Z0xxxx (two of them)

Z300xxxx (one of them)

 

FWIW...

[dirtysanchez]

and the DM's pre-read closer to 190MB/s at least at first.

That's what I'm getting on the 3TB 1TB platter version. (ST3000DM001)

 

I get around 190 MB/s on my ST3000DM001's and around 175 MB/s on my ST2000DM001's.

[BLKMGK]

Argh, every time I see a deal like this and jump on it when space isn't "critical" the drive sits on the shelf until I need it - and then prices have fallen below my deal price! So tempting to grab a couple from Costco though just to have them around lol. I still have 2x 3TB sitting on the shelf from BlackFriday and a few TB left free on the server. Think these will be dropping into this range to stay or is this a screaming deal? sigh

[c3]

My personal guess, this is the sale price we'll see for a few months. At two years the warranty is better than the one year average for externals, but we void that by opening the hotbox.

 

I keep dreaming on using them inside the shell, but it's a dream

[Johnm]

My personal guess, this is the sale price we'll see for a few months. At two years the warranty is better than the one year average for externals, but we void that by opening the hotbox.

 

I keep dreaming on using them inside the shell, but it's a dream

I have two inside the shell in my norco 4224 right now at the far end by the expansion cards laying on their backs with he front vents up and top vents to the front.. i even have a fan right against the "normally top vent" trying to keep them cool inside and the temps are still high. i hit 54c on the parity drive while creating parity. I'll give them a few more days to a week and start gutting them.

[ufopinball]

My personal guess, this is the sale price we'll see for a few months. At two years the warranty is better than the one year average for externals, but we void that by opening the hotbox.

 

I keep dreaming on using them inside the shell, but it's a dream

 

I pre-cleared three of these 4TB drives while still in the shell, but I parked a 120mm fan pointed at the grill side of the enclosures.  The highest temp I recorded during the operation was 42C.

 

I'm not planning to run them in the server this way, but if I wanted to I think it wouldn't be that complicated a setup.

 

[ufopinball]

If I'm not mistaken. the ST4000DM000 is the 8 head 4 platter version.

the DX is the older XT version (5 platter)

 

I would guess your DX's pre-read at about 145MB/s and the DM's pre-read closer to 190MB/s at least at first.

 

I picked up another DM drive today, and then found this thread about these models:

 

http://forums.storagereview.com/index.php/topic/32480-seagate-5900-rpm-4tb-4-platter-drive/

 

They seem to think that the DX model is a 7200 rpm drive, and the DM model is a 5900 (?) rpm drive.  Nothing I have found on the 'net shows a specific RPM for the DM model drive.

 

Based on my own tests using for ((i=0;i<12;i++)) do hdparm -tT /dev/sda; done ... I found:

 

ST4000DX000 -- Timing buffered disk reads > 175 MB/sec

ST4000DM000 -- Timing buffered disk reads > 140 MB/sec

 

Based on the outside of the packages from Costco (I visited several locations), the enclosure serial numbers are all in the NA5J#### series ... however, the NA5JS### group of drives appear to be the DM model.

 

All the other drives I picked up were the DX model, and they were from the groups: NA5JH###, NA5JJ###, NA5JN###, NA5JT###.  Not sure about any of the other groups.

 

I'll probably take the DM drives back because I prefer better performance.

 

If you're more concerned about temperature, the DM drives do run noticeably cooler than the DX models.

[JimmyJoe]

FYI - I got one of these from group NA5JR### and it is a DX model with 175 MB/sec

[JimmyJoe]

Just got back from Costco in Roseville, CA with a few more of these.  Unfortunately for me, I got all DX drives and I would prefer DM.    Don't care about the performance difference, but would like drives that run a little cooler.  Cooler and less platters to me hopefully equates to longer lasting.

 

I didn't want to crack the cases but did connect them so I could get the internal serial number and check that on the Seagate warranty site to see if they were from the same batch or not.  I am assuming that if they are from the same batch, they would have the same warranty expiration date.  I did buy two NA5JR### and that appears to confirm my assumption.  Also, interesting to note the different firmware on the older drive.

 

Info for anyone that's interested:

DX:  Serial from box:  NA5JH###  Serial from drive:  Z1Z02S##  Warranty:  16-Nov-2015  Firmware CC43

DX:  Serial from box:  NA5JR###  Serial from drive:  Z1Z059##  Warranty:  26-Dec-2015  Firmware CC44

DX:  Serial from box:  NA5JR###  Serial from drive:  Z1Z05A##  Warranty:  26-Dec-2015  Firmware CC44

DX:  Serial from box:  NA5JP###  Serial from drive:  Z1Z03W##  Warranty:  09-Jan-2015  Firmware CC44

 

I guess I need to check some other Costco's to see if I can find any DM drives.

 

[JimmyJoe]

Picked up a couple NA5JS### drives yesterday looking for a DM drive, no go.  I got two more DX drives.  Oh well, guess I'll stick with DX drives.

 

DX:  Serial from box:  NA5JS###  Serial from drive:  Z1Z06H##  Warranty:  26-Dec-2015  Firmware CC44

DX:  Serial from box:  NA5JS###  Serial from drive:  Z1Z06G##  Warranty:  09-Jan-2015  Firmware CC44

 

 

[ufopinball]

Picked up a couple NA5JS### drives yesterday looking for a DM drive, no go.  I got two more DX drives.  Oh well, guess I'll stick with DX drives.

 

DX:  Serial from box:  NA5JS###  Serial from drive:  Z1Z06H##  Warranty:  26-Dec-2015  Firmware CC44

DX:  Serial from box:  NA5JS###  Serial from drive:  Z1Z06G##  Warranty:  09-Jan-2015  Firmware CC44

 

Hmmmm, that's disappointing.  I had thought the serial numbers would line up.  I ended up returning the two DM drives I had purchased ... their box serial numbers were NA5JSK3A (purchased in Huntington Beach, CA) and NA5JSJZF (purchased in Tustin, CA)

 

I had hoped to pick up more DX drives, but my local Costco (Fountain Valley, CA) only had NA5JQ### serial numbers on the shelf, and I didn't want to gamble and end up having to return even more opened hard drives to the store.  I guess I'm not sure how much that matters now?

 

Anyway, I'm still in the process of upgrading to 4TB 7200rpm drives.  Most of what I have are Hitachi drives, but there's one Seagate in there.  They all seem to sit at around 35-37C.  That's substantially higher than the other 2TB 5900rpm drives I have, but I still think it's worth having faster parity checks and rebuilds (especially at the 4TB duration!), after which the drives can spin down.

 

I do wish there was a reliable way of telling before opening the box ... I have several more drives that I need to pick up before the sale is over.