Hardware recomendations? NZ

[ping182nz]

I currently have a stock standard PC, running software raid with two 3TB and two 2TB drives, Total of 5TB of RAID 1 storage.

 

I run XBMC as my main HTPC, this is installed on a 120GB SSD in the PC mentioned above so all my media is stored locally on the XBMC machine.

 

I am wanting to create a unRaid server

 

I havent got a big budget. I will most likely use old hardware, would these do?

ie.

MB = P5Q SE/R

CPU = Intel® Core2 Quad CPU    Q9550  @ 2.83GHz

 

I would like to get about 5 or 6 x 3TB Drives...to start with

 

Any suggestions or tips would be great...

 

Should I be buying new hardware, i.e. new Motherboard and CPU?

 

I am in New Zealand so shipping from overseas isnt that cheap so if you could recommend hardware that is available at www.ascent.co.nz that would be great...

[garycase]

That hardware is okay, although the motherboard only has 6 SATA slots, so if you install "5 or 6" hard drives, you'll basically max it to start unless you add a PCIe controller (and with only x1 slots if you're using the x16 for video, that limits the bandwidth on those slots if you install more than 2 drives per slot).

 

I'd start off with that hardware, but recognize that you'll likely want to upgrade in the not-too-distant future 

 

For your 3TB drives, use WD Reds.    You may want to just buy 3 to start; and build the free version of UnRAID (one for parity, two for data) ... this will let you confirm that your hardware is okay, and that you like the functionality of UnRAID, before you invest in a license key.

 

[garycase]

Just confirmed that your supplier of choice does have the 3TB Reds in stock:

http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=407350

 

I assume you have a reasonable power supply and case for the motherboard and CPU you noted -- is that correct?  If not, I can look over your supplier and tell you what I'd suggest.

 

[Ford Prefect]

That hardware is okay, although the motherboard only has 6 SATA slots, so if you install "5 or 6" hard drives, you'll basically max it to start unless you add a PCIe controller (and with only x1 slots if you're using the x16 for video, that limits the bandwidth on those slots if you install more than 2 drives per slot).

 

A HighEnd GPU is of no use in an unRAID box.

Put in a cheapo PCI GPU card in order to free the x16 slot and your setup can still evolve/grow.

Some boards will only allow a GPU in the first x16 slot, but  there is a good chance that a HBA

will work in the x16 slot of the board, since ASUS is not known to push specs over their limits.

[garycase]

A HighEnd GPU is of no use in an unRAID box.

 

Certainly true ... but many systems require the x16 slot be used for the video card.  You can TRY a PCI video card ... and if it works then you'll have the x16 slot available for a good 8-port SATA card if you decide you need more ports.

 

[ping182nz]

OK, Thanks...

 

If I was to go for a new motherboard and cpu and sata card what would you recommend?

 

Would this work?

 

MB = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157301 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131841

 

CPU = What would you suggest (one for each Motherboard)

 

Sata = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101358 + 2 x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116097

 

I am wondering if I should just bite the bullet and go new....

[garycase]

OK, Thanks...

 

If I was to go for a new motherboard and cpu and sata card what would you recommend?

 

Would this work?

 

MB = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157301 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131841

 

CPU = What would you suggest (one for each Motherboard)

 

Sata = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101358 + 2 x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116097

 

I am wondering if I should just bite the bullet and go new....

 

The Asus is a very nice board, but it's a mini-ITX board -- an excellent choice for a mini-ITX case, but only have one expansion slot, so you'd be limited in the number of drives you could support [it's a VERY nice board, however ... and also very low power].

 

The AsRock board should also be fine.  The 8 SATA ports are nice; but be aware that one of the physically x16 slots only operates at x1 speed -- so you've really got two useable PCIe x4 or better slots (both physically x16, but one operates at x16 and one at x4).

 

 

Personally, I'd recommend you use your existing motherboard & CPU to at least "get your feet wet".    If you have a good case and PSU, use those.  If not, buy a good case and a high-quality PSU (Seasonic X series or Corsair TX or HX series) ... then buy 3 WD Reds and give it a try.    If you like it, buy a license and add 3 more WD Reds.    Then, if you decide to expand, simply replace the motherboard/CPU and you'll be ready for further expansion.

 

[ping182nz]

How can I tell if my existing motherboard will run 3TB and 4TB drives?

 

and are Seagate Barracuda ST3000DM001 ok?

[garycase]

How can I tell if my existing motherboard will run 3TB and 4TB drives?

 

Try one :-)    ... and if by chance it doesn't work, check for a BIOS update => if there's a newer BIOS, update to that and try again.

 

 

and are Seagate Barracuda ST3000DM001 ok?

 

Yes, that's okay.  In fact, it will be a bit faster than the WD Reds.    On the other hand, because it's 7200 rpm it will use more power (7.5w vs. 4.4w); get warmer; and has a shorter warranty (2 yrs vs 3 yrs).

 

[mrow]

On the other hand, because it's 7200 rpm it will...get warmer

 

My two ST3000DM001s don't run any warmer than my WD Red, or my WD Greens for that matter. In fact, they run cooler than my older 2TB WD Greens.

[garycase]

My two ST3000DM001s don't run any warmer than my WD Red, or my WD Greens for that matter. In fact, they run cooler than my older 2TB WD Greens.

 

Interesting.  Physics and math would say that's unlikely ... the ST3000DM001 specs show an operating power draw of 8w (I said 7.5w above, but double-checked and the specs show 8w);  the WD Reds draw 4.4w.    And my Kill-a-Watt confirms that ... I get about a 25w increase in power consumption between idle and a parity check with all drives spinning -- which works out to 4.16w/drive of increased power.

 

Are you looking at the temps when the server's essentially idle (drives spinning, but not a lot of activity) ... or after perhaps 90 min of a parity check?    The latter is a much better indicator.

 

... and of course it also depends on just how they're mounted and cooled.

 

[mrow]

My two ST3000DM001s don't run any warmer than my WD Red, or my WD Greens for that matter. In fact, they run cooler than my older 2TB WD Greens.

 

Interesting.  Physics and math would say that's unlikely ... the ST3000DM001 specs show an operating power draw of 8w (I said 7.5w above, but double-checked and the specs show 8w);  the WD Reds draw 4.4w.    And my Kill-a-Watt confirms that ... I get about a 25w increase in power consumption between idle and a parity check with all drives spinning -- which works out to 4.16w/drive of increased power.

 

Are you looking at the temps when the server's essentially idle (drives spinning, but not a lot of activity) ... or after perhaps 90 min of a parity check?    The latter is a much better indicator.

 

... and of course it also depends on just how they're mounted and cooled.

 

Temps were during a data rebuild. Checked at various times throughout the process. Some drives may just dissipate heat better. Drives with less platters probably dissipate heat better.

[garycase]

Drives with less platters probably dissipate heat better.

 

True ... but both the Seagate and the WD Reds are 1TB/platter drives.  I suspect their relative location in your case probably provides better airflow for the Seagate or some other environmental factor.    The simple fact is that dissipating 8 watts is going to generate more heat than dissipating 4.4 watts 

 

[mrow]

Drives with less platters probably dissipate heat better.

 

True ... but both the Seagate and the WD Reds are 1TB/platter drives.  I suspect their relative location in your case probably provides better airflow for the Seagate or some other environmental factor.    The simple fact is that dissipating 8 watts is going to generate more heat than dissipating 4.4 watts 

 

 

I have a Norco 4224 so the placement shouldn't really affect cooling too much. They're also in different locations in the case and the temps were pretty much the same between the two. Otherwise I don't know what to say other than that has been my personal experience.

[garycase]

One of life's little mysteries I suppose.    In any event, r.e. my recommendation:  I'd still go with the WD Reds simply to keep the power as low as possible => a 3.6 watts/drive savings isn't a big deal, but if you want as efficient a system as you can (as you indicated) it could be a factor.    And the 50% longer warranty is nice too 

[ping182nz]

I have a Cooler Master CM 690, I am guessing this will be ok?

 

What temps are BAD, OK, GOOD or BEST for HD's ?

[garycase]

I have a Cooler Master CM 690, I am guessing this will be ok?

 

Yes, that's a very nice case.  The bottom cage works nicely with the front-fan blowing directly over the internal hard drives.  For more drives, you can either use 5-in-3 hot-swap cages; or (my preference due to the better airflow & cooling) the CoolerMaster 4-in-3 cage, which has EXCELLENT cooling with the 120mm fan in front [http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002 ].    Adding two of these would let you easily put 12 drives in that system.

 

 

What temps are BAD, OK, GOOD or BEST for HD's ?

 

There will be a bit of variance based on the drives, the ambient temperature, etc. -- but in a typical "comfortable" room environment the drives should be in the low 30's in normal operation (maybe even high 20's until they've been used a bit); and should not get above the low 40's during an extended parity check (mine never get to 40).    Most modern drives are rated for operation up to 55, or even 60, but you do NOT want to let them get that warm !!

 

DO pay attention to your drives "normal range" after you've had the system for a while.  i.e. if your drive initially spins up at 25 or so, gets to 30 while streaming, and hits 40 during parity checks, that's fine.  Just mentally make a note of that.  One very good indicator of a failing drive is that its operating temps are increasing ==> but this is ALSO what will happen if your case gets an internal "blanket" in the form of a layer of dust ... so if the temps start to rise, get a can of compressed air and blow out any filters and the inside of the case.    If the temps are rising even with a nice clean airway, then be sure you have a spare drive ready 

[ping182nz]

 

MB = Asus P5Q SE/R

CPU = Intel® Core2 Quad CPU    Q9550  @ 2.83GHz

Will these --> Sata = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101358 + 2 x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116097

 

work with my old mother board?

 

Or are there cheaper alternatives?

 

 

[garycase]

 

MB = Asus P5Q SE/R

CPU = Intel® Core2 Quad CPU    Q9550  @ 2.83GHz

Will these --> Sata = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101358 + 2 x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116097

 

work with my old mother board?

 

Or are there cheaper alternatives?

 

Not really ... they're PCIe x4 cards, but you only have PCIe x1 slots.  The card WOULD work, but the bandwidth would be 1/4th of what it's designed for, so it would be a big bottleneck in performance.

If you only plugged in 2-3 drives on the card, it'd be fine, but more would have their performance throttled by the bus bandwidth.  It's a nice card, however -- if you're going to start with your old board, you could go ahead and get one and move it to your newer motherboard when you upgrade.

 

[ping182nz]

buy a good case and a high-quality PSU (Seasonic X series or Corsair TX or HX series) ... then buy 3 WD Reds and give it a try.    If you like it, buy a license and add 3 more WD Reds.    Then, if you decide to expand, simply replace the motherboard/CPU and you'll be ready for further expansion.

 

What size? 560, 660, 760, 850?

 

is this ok --> http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=408425

 

or this --> http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=9393472

[garycase]

buy a good case and a high-quality PSU (Seasonic X series or Corsair TX or HX series) ... then buy 3 WD Reds and give it a try.    If you like it, buy a license and add 3 more WD Reds.    Then, if you decide to expand, simply replace the motherboard/CPU and you'll be ready for further expansion.

 

What size? 560, 660, 760, 850?

 

is this ok --> http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=408425

 

or this --> http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=9393472

 

The first one is excellent (Corsair HX650).    The second one (Seasonic) is a good PSU, but has multiple 12 v rails ==> you want a single 12v rail for a server with a large number of drives that will pull a lot of current during spinup.    Bottom line:  Buy the Corsair.  ... and 650W is plenty.

 

 

[TheMantis]

Now that there are a couple of freight forwarding operations functioning in the US I find I hardly buy anything locally anymore. Apart from most of my 2TB drives almost all of my system has been brought from Amazon or other US based online stores. As I'm sure your finding, the problem in NZ is twofold; firstly the range of products is severely limited, secondly, what you can get is often very expensive. The only thing to watch is keeping under the customs import threshold, do that and you'll save enough money to get bigger and better components. So far I've had nothing brought from overseas fail.

[garycase]

Now that there are a couple of freight forwarding operations functioning in the US I find I hardly buy anything locally anymore. Apart from most of my 2TB drives almost all of my system has been brought from Amazon or other US based online stores. As I'm sure your finding, the problem in NZ is twofold; firstly the range of products is severely limited, secondly, what you can get is often very expensive. The only thing to watch is keeping under the customs import threshold, do that and you'll save enough money to get bigger and better components. So far I've had nothing brought from overseas fail.

 

The trick, of course, is to be very well versed in those customs rules you noted.  When we lived in Europe, my mother-in-law had Sears send some Christmas gifts to our local address (a mistake since we had an APO address that would have totally bypassed customs).    Sears did NOT handle the shipment correctly -- there's a box on the customs form noting "Gift, of no commercial value" that's supposed to be checked for gifts.    The result:  For a box containing ~ $200 worth of gifts, it cost us about $170 in customs fees.  If that box had been checked, it would have cost nothing.  [The even-more-frustrating part of that whole episode was the Sears had charged my mother-in-law a $25 "customs handling fee", which they said was for their "expertise" in handling overseas shipments.]    That episode was ~ 20 years ago, but I definitely learned a lesson about being sure you KNOW the rules when making overseas shipments !!

 

[TheMantis]

Now that there are a couple of freight forwarding operations functioning in the US I find I hardly buy anything locally anymore. Apart from most of my 2TB drives almost all of my system has been brought from Amazon or other US based online stores. As I'm sure your finding, the problem in NZ is twofold; firstly the range of products is severely limited, secondly, what you can get is often very expensive. The only thing to watch is keeping under the customs import threshold, do that and you'll save enough money to get bigger and better components. So far I've had nothing brought from overseas fail.

 

The trick, of course, is to be very well versed in those customs rules you noted.  When we lived in Europe, my mother-in-law had Sears send some Christmas gifts to our local address (a mistake since we had an APO address that would have totally bypassed customs).    Sears did NOT handle the shipment correctly -- there's a box on the customs form noting "Gift, of no commercial value" that's supposed to be checked for gifts.    The result:  For a box containing ~ $200 worth of gifts, it cost us about $170 in customs fees.  If that box had been checked, it would have cost nothing.  [The even-more-frustrating part of that whole episode was the Sears had charged my mother-in-law a $25 "customs handling fee", which they said was for their "expertise" in handling overseas shipments.]    That episode was ~ 20 years ago, but I definitely learned a lesson about being sure you KNOW the rules when making overseas shipments !!

 

Never underestimate the stubbornness of bureaucracy. The NZ threshold is only $400 but go one cent past it and you can kiss goodbye to nearly $100. I take it that you have an association with the US military, I've been lucky enough to have an APO address in the past - very worthwhile.

[garycase]

Never underestimate the stubbornness of bureaucracy. The NZ threshold is only $400 but go one cent past it and you can kiss goodbye to nearly $100.

 

You haven't seen bureaucracy until you've had a chance to visit the Belgian Customs building in Brussels ... you get to stand in MANY lines;  fill out untold forms ... each of which you have to BUY (not expensive, but a nuisance) ... and then pay a not-so-small ransom to finally get a stamped form that you can then take to yet-another massive building to retrieve whatever it is that you're there for in the first place (and pay yet-another "processing fee" there !!    May be better now than it was 20 years ago ... but it was an experience I'd definitely not ever care to repeat.

 

 

I take it that you have an association with the US military, I've been lucky enough to have an APO address in the past - very worthwhile.

 

"Had" is the operative word ... I'm a retired US Air Force officer.