unRAID Server Release 5.0-rc16c Available

[RockDawg]

Proper and complete documentation (which is very much needed) takes a little while.

 

Not according to Tom.  On June 3rd he said:

 

Again, barring any show-stopper type problems, this release will become 5.0 "final" in a matter of days.  All that 's left to do is finish the documentation

 

So on June 3rd he assumed it was only going to take a few days to finish the documentation and, as far as I know, there hasn't been any major or widely reported bugs since RC16c, which was released 6 weeks ago today.  I can see underestimating a project somewhat, but from a few days to six weeks?  In the mean time we see the inclusion of a revamped Web GUI which I am not against, but obviously others don't like it or couldn't care less about and to them it's just more delays.  Even so, that has been released and we haven't heard much since.  What's going on now?  What's currently holding back 5 Final?  We don't know.  IMHO nobody could ever accuse us unRAIDers as being impatient.  At least not fairly.  Over the years I've been amazed at the overall patience of this group.

 

I think this time the backlash may be worse because I think many of us thought this time was really going to be different and it started out that way and, it may even actually be different, but from the outside it's starting to look like another case of "the same old, same old".  Two months later and still no 5 Final and many of us aren't 100% sure why. 

 

I truly mean no disrespect to Tom and I still love unRAID.  I hate to pile on but I have to admit that at this point I'm really confused about the game plan and frustrated about not knowing what to expect.

[vl1969]

I have a question to all people who are frustrated with this delay.

 

What exatly are you doig with unraid that this dely holds you up this badly?

 

I mean do you have an unraid server now that does not perform to expected potential that v5. Shuld fix?

 

Or you use this for business and want features that 4.7 dont have?

 

I mean exept for support of disks bigger than 2tb. I do not see much of a difference.

Grunted v5. Is a bit sturdier and maybe faster, maybe...

And ther are some cool plugins available for it.  But ...

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[vl1969]

Now if we would get a dual parity support whith it . That I would have agree..

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[DiggsNC]

I have a pair of unraid servers, both running constantly and serving up a nice chunk of media for xbmc. One is at v4.7 and has 6 drives all 2TB. The other is a 12 bay unit running V5 RC8a with 10 bays full of various size drives. While I like most would love to have a "Final" version, I had no real reservations installing RC8a on the newer server when I got it and haven't touched it since other than to replace some failed drives. Both times it recovered the failed drives like it should have and I keep filling it up with more data. It's rock solid and I really couldn't ask for more.

 

The fact that RC16c has had nothing major (at least that I have read) reported indicates to me this is basically what will end up as final. If I needed the features of V5, I would install RC16c and leave it.

 

Now with that being said, I think the most recent delay is due to the web gui and plugin manager. Both would be/will be great additions to this product, but couldn't these both actually be offered as Plugins to V5? I am sure someone will correct my assumption if it is wrong, but couldn't V5 be released, then plugins to add this functionality for the web gui and plugin manager follow later? And with that simply a V5.1 with those functions built in? 

 

Reading what I have read here indicates that some are thrilled about those 2 features coming, while others just want a stable / final V5 and could care less about the new functionality. Wouldn't releasing it this way just give both groups the option they want and make everyone happy?  Again, if this is possible...

 

 

[drawz]

One more thing to note regarding communication on this forum - when we briefly had a period of good communication from Tom, several bugs were identified, tracked down, and fixed due to regular back and forth with Tom. Good communication can actually help Tom move things forward more quickly. I'd even wager that some GitHub development might happen on the WebGui if Tom were actually around to help those interested in doing it.

[SidebandSamurai]

DiggsNC,

 

The other is a 12 bay unit running V5 RC8a with 10 bays full of various size drives. While I like most would love to have a "Final" version, I had no real reservations installing RC8a on the newer server when I got it and haven't touched it since other than to replace some failed drives.

 

Just curious, Why are you STILL running RC8a?  Major bugs were squashed with the releases leading up to RC16C.  You should be on RC16C to benefit from all the hard work the community put into that particular release.

 

Sincerely,

Sideband Samurai

[vl1969]

DiggsNC,

 

The other is a 12 bay unit running V5 RC8a with 10 bays full of various size drives. While I like most would love to have a "Final" version, I had no real reservations installing RC8a on the newer server when I got it and haven't touched it since other than to replace some failed drives.

 

Just curious, Why are you STILL running RC8a?  Major bugs were squashed with the releases leading up to RC16C.  You should be on RC16C to benefit from all the hard work the community put into that particular release.

 

Sincerely,

Sideband Samurai

 

Maby he is still on rc8a for the same reason I am  still on beta13.

It works so we can be a bit lazy  to update :-)

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[jowi]

I ran v5.0-rc5 until yesterday. Why? because of the Simplefeatures gui. SF slowed down parity checks on anything beyond rc5, but i like the modern look & feel. Now Tom is working together with SpeedingAnt on a common gui based upon SF, i'm on rc16, hoping it will be complete soon.

[drawz]

The fact that we have people on rc5, rc8, beta13, etc. also shows one of the downsides of not finalizing - we have people running with known bugs, some of which may cause data loss. It also demonstrates the fragmented nature of the unRAID market at this point, which is much like the fragmented nature of the Android market. This really wreaks havoc on plugins, their authors, and the support of the plugins. In turn, this has obviously discouraged several plugin authors from making updates until 5.0 final is out.

[johnny121b]

The fact that we have people on rc5, rc8, beta13, etc. also shows one of the downsides of not finalizing - we have people running with known bugs, some of which may cause data loss.

 

I'd say most of us are using older versions- because they work too well for us to jeopardize our data, and because we haven't encountered an incompatibility serious enough to force us to move to a new-er "candidate"  (To me, the only distinction between 'beta' and 'rc' is semantics)

 

I run an older version [rc12a] because, while IT may have now-known bugs, it hasn't caused ME any problems.  I routinely look in the forums and see newer versions reported as having some sort of new problem.  I don't know if those new problems would affect me, and as the size of my server grows, I'm increasingly unwilling to 'try' the latest flavor of the month.  That [does] sometimes make it frustrating to even ask for help- because the knee-jerk reaction is always- "upgrade to the latest version and then ask us"  In fact, I got that same response (about unraid)  this morning in the PLEX forums.  I, for one, prefer NOT to live on the bleeding edge of software development- especially when I have gigantic amounts of data to guard.  If the programmer (Tom) isn't willing to put his stamp-of-approval on a version and say it's "final" then I feel perfectly justified in my refusal to upgrade to a new-er version of 'beta' code.  I don't begrudge his hesitation.  In fact, I take it as a sign that he understands the enormity of the "final" designation.  I [do] wish there were a prominent listing of known CURRENT bugs, along with bugs associated with/solved-by previous versions.  It's a pain to pour through these forums' arguments & discussions, searching to see IF a bug has been reported or just to see IF any serious bugs exist,  while trying to decide IF an update is worth the risk.  And yes, I know those bugs are listed in the release notes for each version, but there's nothing for the currently-offered version. 

 

Hell, I'm only using version 5 because when I first established my server years ago, I for some reason, couldn't MAKE 4.7 work for me. 

[Joe L.]

I [do] wish there were a prominent listing of known CURRENT bugs, along with bugs associated with/solved-by previous versions.  It's a pain to pour through these forums' arguments & discussions, searching to see IF a bug has been reported or just to see IF any serious bugs exist,  while trying to decide IF an update is worth the risk.  And yes, I know those bugs are listed in the release notes for each version, but there's nothing for the currently-offered version.  

Actually, there is ... look here:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?board=48.0

 

[jaybee]

Still no post from Tom. Just give us an update on where thing are. 5 minutes of your time.

[Barziya]

Don't worry, people.  Every time Tom disappears, he always comes back within eight months or so.

 

[RockDawg]

Now let's be fair and not get all theatrical.  It's far too early to say he's disappeared again.  His last post was 9 days ago and 10 days ago he gave us the new WebGUI.

[Ice_Black]

For you guys http://astronutrition.com/futurebiotics-chill-pill-60-tabs.html

 

Seem to be real 

[RockDawg]

There are many very legitimate complaints that people have here.  It's also not fair to simply dismiss them or to ridicule the people voicing them.

[jowi]

I think if Tom decided to name the versions 5.05, 5.08, 5.15, 5.16 and introduce each one as a new VERSION in stead of the by many misunderstood term 'release candidate' no one would complain... plus, a lot of people think that a "stable" version means that it wont crash, eg. a non stable version is considered unstable and unsafe and should be avoided... while the truth is that "stable" in software development terms only means that the version will not have any more functionality added to it... it can still be crap

[johnny121b]

Actually, there is ... look here:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?board=48.0

Thanks, Joe.  I bookmarked that link; to remind myself that sub exists!

[Frank1940]

I think if Tom decided to name the versions 5.05, 5.08, 5.15, 5.16 and introduce each one as a new VERSION in stead of the by many misunderstood term 'release candidate' no one would complain... plus, a lot of people think that a "stable" version means that it wont crash, eg. a non stable version is considered unstable and unsafe and should be avoided... while the truth is that "stable" in software development terms only means that the version will not have any more functionality added to it... it can still be crap

 

I have been there with video editing software.  I can recall that a certain video software company acknowledged that the last .X release did have faults in it that caused it to crash very regularly.  They actually 'promised' to release another point version to fix the problem.  Instead, they released the next version and had the gall to charge an upgrade fee.  I personally voted (with my pocketbook) to support this ripoff... 

[drawz]

Actually, there is ... look here:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?board=48.0

Thanks, Joe.  I bookmarked that link; to remind myself that sub exists!

That forum is better than nothing (where we were a few months ago), but Tom's minimal and intermittent participation makes it less useful than it could be. When he was active for a short period of time, several bugs were noted, isolated, and fixed in short order.

[jaybee]

It's like a broken record in here and on these forums generally, about the status of final being "just a name". I don't have the time nor energy to state why you are so wrong, but it's so frustrating to hear you repeat yourselves like we are in the wrong and don't understand that software has bugs. It's actually offensive that you deem us so naive, when the irony is that it's actually yourselves that are not understanding so many things about why 5 final is so important.

[jowi]

Please, enlighten us then with your mighty wishdom once and for all and make us understand.

[jaybee]

I do not agree with this at all, and here is why:

1. you did not pay for a specific version when you bought your license.

  you paid for the use of the product in specific configuration that is not available for free.

I paid my licence for a pro version of the current production release which at the time was 4.7. Yes, it caters for future releases too...so? 4.7 is still to this day the current production release.

 

2. Final release does not mean bug-free.  even retail products (retail means final version/setup) have bugs or features not working as per initial expectations, that went past ALL QA tests in companies 100 time the lime-tech is. (Microsoft Office 2005-2007  ring the bell?)

 

Yes of course software has bugs. Software also has people responsible to fix these bugs. Do I need to keep giving history lessons? To summarise, 4.7 has major bugs and you can suffer data loss. These are major. These needed to be fixed. Tom said he would. 2 years later, not fixed. That's not acceptable. I'm not sure what you are even trying to point out here? It's acceptable for software to have bugs? Some, yes. Put for a product that as you yourself claim to be "just a NAS" essentially, and for it to fail at even this, this is quite major and certainly not acceptable. 4.7 was promised to be fixed. To this day it has not been. This is not fair on people that have purchased this.

 

you do/did have an option to get a free product and run it indefinitely for testing and to help you make a decisions or a several decisions as  in

a.  is the product right for you ?

b. does the product have ALL the features you want/need?

c. dose it have bugs critical enough to stop/prevent you from using it.

etc. 

the list can go on and on...

 

I already stated that the bugs were not made very public and I only found out about them monthes after purchasing a pro licence. What is your point? Yes you can test products. So? Are you saying that because I did not spot or experience the bug that can cause data loss, then I should just go on using the product? I don't think so.

 

I have been using unRaid with free licenses for 2 years.

as it happen at the time I CHOOSE to go not with what was considered a stable final version 4.7  but with stable Beta version of 5.0Beta13 (superstitious anyone)

my logic was I give a test drive see how it works and than decide if I want to use it for real.

I also planed to use some plug-ins that was not supported in 4.7.

I have been using this setup for 2! years with NO ISSUES. at all.

I have 1.5TB of movies and other files on it.

in 2 years not one crash, not one hiccup.

even had 2 power failure in the house, was able to shut it down fast and gracefully from console  and power up back no problems.

 

I don't care, and neither do a lot of people care how long person X has been running version Y for Z years with "no issues".

 

 

I am not sure what is your definition of stable product, but for me is it works reliably and performs it function(s) well it's stable.

the only thing I have not tried yet, and hopping will not have to do soon is drive failure scenario. bit I do need it

 

My definition of a stable product would not be 4.7, which has bugs which can cause data loss. I don't know about you, but I deem that not a feature I would want to see in a storage solution.

 

this is first and foremost a NAS. all it have to do is sit there and server you your data on demand, making sure that your data is there, available and protected.

 

all other bells and whistles  are just that, fluff and extras. not the primary target for this system.

 

Yes. No current production release of unraid does this in a safe manner without major bugs.

 

also do not forget that once you have access to all updates and future versions  of the product indefinitely as the licensing schema stand now.

so if you bought your license @ version 3 you can get version 5 and use it no problem.

how many other product give you this now days?

 

So what? Should I be happy that I have a flawed product just because I will get beta and RC releases of future versions for ever, but no commitment to a final and (hopefully) stable and polished version? Yes, I'm very happy to sit here waiting...and waiting....and waiting...

 

 

I personally do not care what name is.

if it works I will use it.

 

It depends how you define "it works". I probably would too, but I do not wish to trust my data to RC's that come willy nilly with drivers missing, kernel changes every time, feature creep and random changes. I also do not have the time to keep testing them all only for another to come out a day later.

 

[RockDawg]

I think if Tom decided to name the versions 5.05, 5.08, 5.15, 5.16 and introduce each one as a new VERSION in stead of the by many misunderstood term 'release candidate' no one would complain...

 

That is not the release system unRAID uses.  Your point is moot.  I think if Tom released updates and/or communicated a little more consistently people wouldn't complain so much either.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

plus, a lot of people think that a "stable" version means that it wont crash, eg. a non stable version is considered unstable and unsafe and should be avoided... while the truth is that "stable" in software development terms only means that the version will not have any more functionality added to it... it can still be crap

 

The definition of stable is not really the point here either.  Whether Tom releases Final with a single change or not is irrelevant.  The point is that Tom has been saying 5.0 Final is coming for years.  Tom started that ball rolling, not forum posters.  People are frustrated because Tom keeps telling us all it's coming, but it doesn't happen.  The only expectations I see most posters having are those that Tom planted in us all.  Again, I submit the forum as a whole has been more than patient considering how long this has been going on. 

 

Go back to late May.  We're told a new RC will be out in a couple days and barring major problems, Final will be here the following week.  We're introduced to Tom #2 and told that he will be helping to communicate plans and progress to the forum.  Furthermore, Tom says that Tom #2 has beat it into him that people want to see software go Final and that he just needs to get it done.  Move forward today (Two and a half months later) and how much of that has materialized?  Just the RC.

 

Even if you're the type to be content and wait patiently no matter what, how can others be blamed for not sharing that patience.  To me, it's about so much more than a version label on the software.  It's about Tom finally doing what he keeps saying he will.   

 

You want people to shut up?  That will do it!  Not to mention that will also garner trust and goodwill that will foster patience and understanding in the future.

 

[dalben]

To me it feels more like a commercial decision to hold back, not a technical one.

 

Tom has brought someone on board, Tom2, to help with the marketing/sales.  The NAS market has changed since unraid launched.  Now if you want to compete it needs to look slick, offer a host of addons, it's basically a home server these days.  That's the market Tom now finds himself playing in.

 

We all need unraid to remain commercially viable enough for Tom to continue to develop it. That's got to be the community and lime tech's number 1 goal.  If his research or read of the market says he needs to release a x.0 release with a Big Bang, sexy new look and plugin manager to gain more traction and sales, then so be it. Given the choice between using an RC for another 6 months but knowing unraid will be around for a few more years, or getting 5.0 Final today with the chance of t being the last ever major release of unraid, I'm happy to wait.

 

Most of us have paid our money to lime tech already.  Unraid needs to attract new money to continue.