unRAID Server Release 5.0-rc16c Available


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I think the natives are restless because Tom has not posted on this release thread for a while.  Since Tom has been silent, we don't know what he is doing to the code at this point.  Maybe most of the critical bugs have been taken out, and now he is finalizing the new web interface and plugin system.  Maybe there is another bug he is squashing and he is working hard to reproduce it.

 

The point is we don't know and that's why the natives are restless.  What I do know is that he is probably waiting to see what else comes up before moving on.  This is not a oh my parity check ran successful and it was 850MB/s well it worked for me!  Lets release it.  There may be other problems Tom is looking into before he releases 5.0.

 

Even if he is not doing ANYTHING.  You have a working system with RC16-C.  so IF nothing else changes, a "5.0" release will mean nothing as it will be the same as RC16-C. 

 

--Sideband Samurai

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For what it is worth as an unRAID system build we ship all our builds with the most current RC that works best for us.  That is currently 5.0rc16c.

 

Hmmm.  Release Candidate software as production software. As GreenLeaf themselves are using RC16C in production and have to support it.  Either a dangerous president, or everyone running RC16C has release 5.0 already in their hands.

 

Oh yea, and here is a post from Tom himself on July 10th.

 

There are no longer any "release stopper" issues left.  As soon as I finish the documentation I will release 5.0 "stable".  If I can throw in a few 'cosmetic' type fixes before then I will but primary focus now is finishing docs to aide new users and those moving from 4.7.

 

So there you have it.  This would tell me that RC16-C is the 5.0 release.

 

-- Sideband Samurai

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As a customer that made a purchase some time ago this is what I have come to expect.  The people whose first purchase was one of the servers advertised as shipping with 5 final must consider Lime Technology has having 0 cred by this stage.....

 

These "paying customer" comments get brought up every now and then and I find it interesting that people feel the need to flame/whinge/complain like you haven't got an awesome product for the amount of money you spent. Free or $70-$120 for a LIFETIME license is pennies for what unRAID delivers on a daily basis.

 

At the end of the day is renaming rc16c to final really going to change anything? No. The product stays the same. I understand that RC as a label has an impact on impression from a commercial point of view (people who re-sell/manage unRAID servers for customers) and feature creep is definitely frustrating but for the majority of users it isn't going to make any difference to the end result when 5.0 goes "live."

 

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[/quote This is not flaming at all, I fully respect and use the product that Tom has developed. However many of us know Unraid could be much bigger commercially with a little(lot) more release discipline. Your comments that RC vs final doesn't really matter are way off the mark and both Tom's should know this. I have project managed both small and large software developments for a living and release dates are absolutely critical to stakeholders and sponsors alike. In this case paying Unraid customers are both and therefore the delivery commitment timeframe is to us.

 

Commercial success is not just about producing a feature rich product nor is just about product quality. Existing customers are key product advocates in recommending and promoting UnRaid. To be an advocate you must have CONFIDENCE in both product delivery and support. Refusing to take software out of Beta undermines all of this.

 

Commercial lesson over..

 

 

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Final this, final that... round and round this forum goes endlessly. How about instead of making the same posts over and over, you just reread the old ones from the past and call it a day instead of spamming the same message every 6 months. Instead of complaining about not having a "final" label (which means nothing if you're forcing him to just drop it on there), how about be more constructive with your time and think of new improvements for the future or hell test for current bugs that haven't been found yet that could botch the entire FINAL product?

What bugs?? This is just feature creep and yes it is completely appropriate that we discuss it.

 

 

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There are at least two bugs found after rc16c, "Modified Time not being set properly." and "cannot do non-correcting parity check after array stop/start.", posted on issues section, and in some specific situations these can be seen as moderately important issues, then rc16c is not exactly 5.0 final.

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We have been bug free since July 10th it is now August 16th. We have scope creep why not just admit it. But lets make a date commitment to get this under control. This is what every commercial software development project has to manage.

 

 

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Some of you guys might think that tagging the latest release with the word "Final" is just a name change but it's actually much more than that and here's why....

 

There will be plenty people waiting for the "Final" label regardless of wether you agree with their logic or not.  Once Tom calls it final then a whole lot of us "silent natives" are going to begin migrating our machines to it.  Then this will be the point when we are really going to see what (previously unknown) bugs are going to shake out of it...

 

Having all those new machines, configurations, use cases etc. bang on the code would be of great benefit to the whole community... Just a thought...

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There will be plenty people waiting for the "Final" label regardless of wether you agree with their logic or not.  Once Tom calls it final then a whole lot of us "silent natives" are going to begin migrating our machines to it.  Then this will be the point when we are really going to see what (previously unknown) bugs are going to shake out of it...

 

 

Exactly.

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It's not just about "final" to say it's "final." Obviously, we want a product that is reliable and works. Tom has stated that rc16c has no major bugs and is essentially final, but it has been quite a while. Here is why I personally want final:

  • Plugin authors have almost stopped making updates since we are "close" to final, choosing instead to wait for actual final
  • In the RC phase, we're not even supposed to running plugins
  • Debugging plugins and other problems is hard because people are not always on the latest version
  • I'm tired of checking this forum every day hoping for 5.0
  • I want to GIVE MY MONEY TO TOM for a Plus license, but I won't do it until we are final or I am confident that final is coming soon (hint, the way things are going, that won't be until it is out).
  • When Tom actually releases 5.0, he can start to focus on features for 5.1+, such as a proper implementation of the plugin manager and an updated webGUI.
  • The enhanced webGUI may help drive sales, but not having a product means you are missing sales left and right. I am confident that Tom has lost more sales due to the delays and lack of official support for 3TB drives than he has because of the GUI. It's like not even showing up to the game.
  • The longer we wait and the more frustrated the users of this forum get, the more he loses customers to the competition. I'm very close to just buying a Synology box. Prospective users that visit this forum are very likely to turn and run

 

The lack of communication from Tom leaves us wondering - is there a new bug that needs to be fixed? Am I at risk for data loss on RC16c and I just don't know it? Or do we just have feature creep for features that are nonessential?

 

Good communication would go a long way to making us feel better about running the latest RC and that we are headed in the right direction.

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Good communication would go a long way to making us feel better about running the latest RC and that we are headed in the right direction.

 

Wasn't Tom #2 supposed to help out with that?  Haven't seen/heard much of him since shortly after his announcement.

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EVERY program is in a beta regardless of name!!

 

No they are not. You obviously do not understand the term beta or Release Candidate. With your logic, every release would just be a production release that was untested.

There are a few people on here that like to go on about how "it's just a name". You are completely wrong on so many levels.

 

Final this, final that... round and round this forum goes endlessly. How about instead of making the same posts over and over, you just reread the old ones from the past and call it a day instead of spamming the same message every 6 months. Instead of complaining about not having a "final" label (which means nothing if you're forcing him to just drop it on there), how about be more constructive with your time and think of new improvements for the future or hell test for current bugs that haven't been found yet that could botch the entire FINAL product?

 

How about we don't do that so that we can prevent any further feature creep. The irony is that you state this happens every 6 months. That's an absolute joke time period. I would expect people to complain about when the release is coming every 6 days, but you are not happy with them doing it every 6 months?! That says a lot about what we are dealing with here in terms of timelines which is a real shame.

 

 

 

 

 

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It's not just about "final" to say it's "final." Obviously, we want a product that is reliable and works. Tom has stated that rc16c has no major bugs and is essentially final, but it has been quite a while. Here is why I personally want final:

  • Plugin authors have almost stopped making updates since we are "close" to final, choosing instead to wait for actual final
  • In the RC phase, we're not even supposed to running plugins
  • Debugging plugins and other problems is hard because people are not always on the latest version
  • I'm tired of checking this forum every day hoping for 5.0
  • I want to GIVE MY MONEY TO TOM for a Plus license, but I won't do it until we are final or I am confident that final is coming soon (hint, the way things are going, that won't be until it is out).
  • When Tom actually releases 5.0, he can start to focus on features for 5.1+, such as a proper implementation of the plugin manager and an updated webGUI.
  • The enhanced webGUI may help drive sales, but not having a product means you are missing sales left and right. I am confident that Tom has lost more sales due to the delays and lack of official support for 3TB drives than he has because of the GUI. It's like not even showing up to the game.
  • The longer we wait and the more frustrated the users of this forum get, the more he loses customers to the competition. I'm very close to just buying a Synology box. Prospective users that visit this forum are very likely to turn and run

 

The lack of communication from Tom leaves us wondering - is there a new bug that needs to be fixed? Am I at risk for data loss on RC16c and I just don't know it? Or do we just have feature creep for features that are nonessential?

 

Good communication would go a long way to making us feel better about running the latest RC and that we are headed in the right direction.

 

 

Good post. The problem is it goes deeper than this for me. You say you want to give your money to him for 5 when it is stable and given "final" status. The problem is, a lot of users (like myself) have already paid for a final version pro licence and are not even getting the product we paid for. 4.7 is not a final and stable product, and has known bugs. Tom promised to fix this and he never did as he wanted to "fix it" by basically just carrying on with version 5 to supercede version 4.7. This has still not happened over 2 years later. I bought the product on the basis that it worked. It does not. This was not made public to people that bought it. I discovered the bugs months later in a forum post on here, despite that the post had existed for some time.

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playing devils advocate here,

 

unraid appears to be the coding efforts of one person. this one person has limited resources and time.. so I'm sure there are bugs to be found.

so do you blame yourself for buying into a product with this situation? what about the free license/trials?

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My biggest concern is that there are 2 new "projects", plugin manager and webui ongoing, since its a one man team we could wait for 2 more years until they are done, and then its time to start on 6.0 instead. Thus no release will be made at all. I do think we need to help Tom focus on getting 5.0 out of the door, then 5.x can be with what ever new features he finds fit, but never getting a final will just drive customers away and plugin authors too.

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playing devils advocate here,

 

unraid appears to be the coding efforts of one person. this one person has limited resources and time..

I don't really care if it's one person or a thousand persons.  When people pay you money, you hire as many people as needed to meet the demand.  And the problems with communication are unexcusable.  It takes five minutes of that one person's time to make a post saying hi I'm still alive and working on so and so.

 

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Good communication would go a long way to making us feel better about running the latest RC and that we are headed in the right direction.

 

Wasn't Tom #2 supposed to help out with that?  Haven't seen/heard much of him since shortly after his announcement.

 

This right here is the biggest problem. Every time the release schedule comes up, the heart of the problem is lack of communication. We could shut down this endless cycle with some forthright status updates. This is not only a problem on this site, MANY web vendors have the exact same issue.

 

So, where is Tom #2 to throw us a bone??

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Good communication would go a long way to making us feel better about running the latest RC and that we are headed in the right direction.

 

Wasn't Tom #2 supposed to help out with that?  Haven't seen/heard much of him since shortly after his announcement.

 

This right here is the biggest problem. Every time the release schedule comes up, the heart of the problem is lack of communication. We could shut down this endless cycle with some forthright status updates. This is not only a problem on this site, MANY web vendors have the exact same issue.

 

So, where is Tom #2 to throw us a bone??

He is probably out making calls and marketing the product and isn't around the office to remind Tom#1 he needs to post more often.  They need a third employee that can be the administrator of the forums and is on and posting daily.
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It's not just about "final" to say it's "final." Obviously, we want a product that is reliable and works. Tom has stated that rc16c has no major bugs and is essentially final, but it has been quite a while. Here is why I personally want final:

  • Plugin authors have almost stopped making updates since we are "close" to final, choosing instead to wait for actual final
  • In the RC phase, we're not even supposed to running plugins
  • Debugging plugins and other problems is hard because people are not always on the latest version
  • I'm tired of checking this forum every day hoping for 5.0
  • I want to GIVE MY MONEY TO TOM for a Plus license, but I won't do it until we are final or I am confident that final is coming soon (hint, the way things are going, that won't be until it is out).
  • When Tom actually releases 5.0, he can start to focus on features for 5.1+, such as a proper implementation of the plugin manager and an updated webGUI.
  • The enhanced webGUI may help drive sales, but not having a product means you are missing sales left and right. I am confident that Tom has lost more sales due to the delays and lack of official support for 3TB drives than he has because of the GUI. It's like not even showing up to the game.
  • The longer we wait and the more frustrated the users of this forum get, the more he loses customers to the competition. I'm very close to just buying a Synology box. Prospective users that visit this forum are very likely to turn and run

 

The lack of communication from Tom leaves us wondering - is there a new bug that needs to be fixed? Am I at risk for data loss on RC16c and I just don't know it? Or do we just have feature creep for features that are nonessential?

 

Good communication would go a long way to making us feel better about running the latest RC and that we are headed in the right direction.

 

 

Good post. The problem is it goes deeper than this for me. You say you want to give your money to him for 5 when it is stable and given "final" status. The problem is, a lot of users (like myself) have already paid for a final version pro licence and are not even getting the product we paid for. 4.7 is not a final and stable product, and has known bugs. Tom promised to fix this and he never did as he wanted to "fix it" by basically just carrying on with version 5 to supercede version 4.7. This has still not happened over 2 years later. I bought the product on the basis that it worked. It does not. This was not made public to people that bought it. I discovered the bugs months later in a forum post on here, despite that the post had existed for some time.

 

I do not agree with this at all, and here is why:

1. you did not pay for a specific version when you bought your license.

  you paid for the use of the product in specific configuration that is not available for free.

 

2. Final release does not mean bug-free.  even retail products (retail means final version/setup) have bugs or features not working as per initial expectations, that went past ALL QA tests in companies 100 time the lime-tech is. (Microsoft Office 2005-2007  ring the bell?)

 

you do/did have an option to get a free product and run it indefinitely for testing and to help you make a decisions or a several decisions as  in

a.  is the product right for you ?

b. does the product have ALL the features you want/need?

c. dose it have bugs critical enough to stop/prevent you from using it.

etc. 

the list can go on and on...

 

I have been using unRaid with free licenses for 2 years.

as it happen at the time I CHOOSE to go not with what was considered a stable final version 4.7  but with stable Beta version of 5.0Beta13 (superstitious anyone)

my logic was I give a test drive see how it works and than decide if I want to use it for real.

I also planed to use some plug-ins that was not supported in 4.7.

I have been using this setup for 2! years with NO ISSUES. at all.

I have 1.5TB of movies and other files on it.

in 2 years not one crash, not one hiccup.

even had 2 power failure in the house, was able to shut it down fast and gracefully from console  and power up back no problems.

 

I am not sure what is your definition of stable product, but for me is it works reliably and performs it function(s) well it's stable.

the only thing I have not tried yet, and hopping will not have to do soon is drive failure scenario. bit I do need it

 

this is first and foremost a NAS. all it have to do is sit there and server you your data on demand, making sure that your data is there, available and protected.

 

all other bells and whistles  are just that, fluff and extras. not the primary target for this system.

 

also do not forget that once you have access to all updates and future versions  of the product indefinitely as the licensing schema stand now.

so if you bought your license @ version 3 you can get version 5 and use it no problem.

how many other product give you this now days?

 

one thing I do agree with is that making the interface pretty should not be a priority at this time (it's kind of late in the game for that.) if the RC is stable release it as is.

than do a SP add the new interface and plug-in manager.

 

this is not a retail outlet. you don't have suppliers to deal with, make sure that the packaging is pretty or anything like that.

 

also what this site is really in need for is a good version segregation for everything.

all the product for all the versions should be together with the unRaid version they are designed/tested with.

 

example if you build plug in for version 4.x it should be clearly marked as such.

if you updated it to be used in version 5.x you need to make sure that it still works in 4.x

and if not clearly mark it for 5.x only.

 

that is all.

I personally do not care what name is.

if it works I will use it.

if it works well and I need the functionality of a paid license I will pay it.

in fact I am debating right now if I should eventually get 1 pro license or 2 plus.

my projected setup is using unraid as a VM.

so I can have 2 8 disk VMs for media and program backups on separate arrays

 

and what more I can do this now. with out any issue.

 

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How about we don't do that so that we can prevent any further feature creep. The irony is that you state this happens every 6 months. That's an absolute joke time period. I would expect people to complain about when the release is coming every 6 days, but you are not happy with them doing it every 6 months?! That says a lot about what we are dealing with here in terms of timelines which is a real shame.

 

My point was that this happens every 6 months when people get restless. It's time for people to wake up and realize that this is the way it is. We need to stop flooding the forum with useless demands for a final release. Tom will release final when it's ready to be released as a final.

 

Some have misunderstood me... I am 100% against throwing a final label on something that Tom is not confident is close to 100% because yes a status of FINAL means more than just a label. He's trying to protect the hordes of users that are itching to throw a final on their machine in case there's something actually wrong with it, which as we've found, there are still a few minor bugs floating around and new ones pop up every once in a while that were unseen.

 

However, I do feel like Tom shoots himself in the foot once or twice a year when he announces a date and then misses it without a follow up communication, that's on him. My main issue is with the individuals who are demanding a final release even if it's just this current RC. If that's your mentality, then just use the dang current RC and call it a day. Insisting that the final be put out now (aka relabeling the current RC) can potentially be disasterous.

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Patience guys. Tom has confirmed that he is actively working on unRAID.

I cannot confirm on which area.

He jokingly said that he's working so hard he can barely remember his wife's name.

Tom has not disappeared, he's focusing on what needs to be done to move forward with his plans.

I don't have the full scoop. I'm sure he'll let us know when he's ready.

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