Extending unRAID array through eSATA/SAS, different options

[henris]

I'm preparing to build my second unRAID system into the popular Lian Li PC-Q25B case in SFF style.

 

This is the component list:

Case Lian LI PC-Q25B Mini-ITX

PSU Corsair CX430M V2 CX-sarjan 430 W ATX

MB ASRock FM2A85X-ITX FM2 AMD A85X

Processor AMD A4-5300 Trinity 3.4GHz (FM2)

Memory G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1600 Mhz 4 GB (2 x 2 GB)

 

With this I will be able to get to the max. limit of 7 drives with a Plus license (mb has 8 SATA-3 ports). But I would like to be able to extend the system in the future. I've been doing quite a bit of reading but haven't really found a definite info on what would the best way to do it.

 

One alternative which came to my mind was to build otherwise identical extension enclosure but with only PSU and additional 7 drives installed. Then I would somehow connect the new extension enclosure to the original, master system. Eventually I would like to be able to attach two of these to get to the maximum of 21 drives. I know that there are external enclosure solutions specifically designed for this, like the following from Orico. Any info on those would also be appreciated:

http://www.orico.com.cn/en/ProductInfo.aspx?typeid=54&id=1561

http://www.orico.com.cn/en/ProductInfo.aspx?typeid=66&id=997

 

Few questions regarding the self-built approach:

1. What would be the optimum (price and performance) way to connect the new extension enclosure to the master system (eSATA, SAS, miniSAS, etc.)? There is one PCIe 2.0 x16 slot available. What cards and cables I should get both for the extension enclosure and the master system?

 

2. How would I get the extension system function power-wise? Since there is no motherboard, how would I get the front power switch to correctly command the PSU?

 

3. Is there an option to utilise the PSU from the master system? I'm not meaning running SATA/molex-power cables through the back of the boxes but more like if there is some standard way to provide both data and power through some interfacing cabling similar to power-over-ethernet. I would obviously would have to upgrade the PSU to something like 650-750 with the 21 drives. Anyone experience with eSATAp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATAp?

 

Any help is well appreciated!

[henris]

Digging through older posts finally provided some glue about a possible working combination. Here are the threads:

"Add more disks to the array but outside the case"

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=15965.5

Two bolted together tower case idea

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=14620.0

 

To get to sufficient bandwidth I would use a single 4-port sas channel for each external enclosure. On the main system I would use either a SAS-card with two external SF-8088 mini-SAS connectors like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAS3801E-LSI-SC08GE-SAS-HBA-Host-Bus-Adapter-PCI-e-Controller-/231029411516?pt=US_Server_Disk_Controllers_RAID_Cards&hash=item35ca6d0ebc

OR

I would use any of well known SAS-cards (eg. Supermicro AOC-SAS2LP-MV8) with two internal SF-8087 ports and a SF-8087 to SF-8088 adapter like this:

http://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas_cables_adapters/AD8788-2.asp

 

For the extension case side I found this which is designed for JBOD scenarios:

http://www.xcase.co.uk/product-p/expander-db.htm

 

It solves the powerswitch problem (no motherboard on the extension enclosure) but I'm yet to find a feasible expander card. Optimum would be expansion from one external SF-8088 to two internal SF-8087 to support my 7 drives. The expander cards I've sound so far have been 24/36 port versions and way too pricey for this.

 

If the price of the extension enclosure together with all the necessary cards and cables would be less or equal to the main system it would still make sense since you get all the storage through same system with unified management. But I'm not yet sure if I can get to that price level...

 

Any hints about cheaper SAS-cards with 2 external ports or hint about the 1xSF-8088 -> 2xSF-8087 are welcomed.

[garycase]

The CX430 is a VERY tight fit in that case, and leaves little room for airflow.  An SFX unit is a much better choice for the power supply.    This works very well:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256063

... or its modular "big brother":  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256084

[henris]

Thanx for chiming in, I've read a lot of your previous posts which have been very informative!

 

SFX-PSUs are for sure interesting. I have a special situation and have a chance to test different combinations. I will definitely include Silverstone ST45SF-G 450W SFX12V in my testing.

 

Few things to consider:

- Silverstone is almost twice the price compared to Corsair here in Finland (105eur vs 55eur). Besides the size they are almost identical (modular, Bronze, single rail etc.)

- Silverstone has 80mm fan with minimum 18dBA rating. Corsair on the other hand has a 120mm fan but minimum 22dBA rating. I'm looking for really silent build and will test replacing the case fan and cpu cooler with Noctua fans. It will be interesting to see which PSU is actually more silent.

[vl1969]

is there a reason you are suing a mini-ITX case?

 

I mean, if you know that you are going to extend  the build to more than 7 HDD

why not just get a case that would suit your needs now and in the future

and get a good PSU capable of running max of your projected drives.

than all you need to do is add the expander card and drives and be done with it.

[henris]

I expect the 18TB capacity to last at least two years from now. Unit will be located for the moment in a livingroom environment so small size and sufficient looks will definitely be favorable in WAF-scale. I've researched 9-12 bay tower cases like the ones from Antec but they definetely would loose on the looks.

 

Based on the experience of my first unRAID build I want as many of the drive bays to be backplane/hotswap ones however 5-in-3 cages are quite expensive here in Finland. Actually the whole Lian-Li PC-Q25B case is only 15eur more expensive than a 5-in-3 cage (similar to Norco SS-500). I'm basically trying to calculate the difference between a 1x main system + 2x extension enclosure and the 20 bay full tower alternative. But I'm still missing a few components on the extension enclosure side.

 

I'm also familiarising myself with the different options for efficient SATA/SAS connectivity. I guess I might be swimming against the main flow hence there isn't too many affordable products available.

[vl1969]

if the hotswap is not realy an issue

and if this is available at your location

check out this this is 4in3 cages

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001NPEBEM/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

the do have a hotswap option but you need to order the baclplaines

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001NPEBG0/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

only issue I found with this is that they are for a specific silverstone case so the fan can not mount properly in any other case.

I have managed to fit it in but I had to forgo the fan connector on the cage and run the wire directly to MB with an extancion.

 

here in US the cage is like $26 and the adaptor is $12