Thoughts on Lian-Li PC-Q25B Builds


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Thank you Gary, that's exactly what I needed. I wanted graphics so I went with the Xeon E3-1245V5, which is middle of the road I guess. The parts so far are here, and I'm hoping I've got everything right >>>

 

New Unraid NAS

 

I ordered the memory from Kingston and they say it will be available 7/1, (which I'll believe when I see it). You had linked to these before >>>

 

Newegg.com/Product=Kingston ValueRAM 32GB

 

Qtrmeg,

 

Did you build this unit?  If, so are you happy with it?  I am looking at building a replacement server with the same parts, but with the PC-M25 case.

 

Thanks, srengr.

 

I built it a couple weeks ago and used the M25 case, that link is updated with the correct parts I used. I like it very much but there are a couple things you might want to change. I used a Bronze non-modular power supply that could be improved on. I actually didn't want a modular unit because I can get better wire management & airflow, but I would absolutely use a SFF PS regardless of what brand/model you decide on. The PS is right on top of the motherboard in both of these cases and you really want as much space between as you can get.

 

I also had a hard time deciding on either the Asrock MB or the Supermicro X11SSM-F. I gave up IPMI for onboard sound & better display options. Ironically onboard sound & graphics is pretty much not functional with Skylark but who knows what will happen in the future.

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Being in the tropics with no air on where the river is, my drives idled low 40s and hit 60 on parity checks.  The Q25 was just too small.

 

I migrated to a Fractal Node 804 and what a difference.  Low 30 idles, low forty parity.  And the room to work is nice.

 

It's about the same height as a Q25 but wider.  A cube.  If you have the extra width people should consider it as a wider alternative.

 

I have had zero issues with the Q25 case running too hot. If you use an ATX power supply and stuff the little remaining space with wires & cables I can see why you would have a problem, but it's been advised not to use an ATX PS since page #1 of this thread.

 

I can't remember anyone talking about fan efficiency with regard to hot climates but most people want case fans to be efficient & quiet. You probably want yours to blow your hair back.

 

As for the Q25 being small, yes it is is VERY SMALL! It is 20.4 liters, which is slightly over the 20 liter limit that most people agree is the limit for small form factor. You can't just buy random parts and whine to me when it doesn't work out for you, especially when you are the first person to not like a Q25 build.

 

Was that too harsh? Because the case you recommended is twice the size of the Q25 at over 40 liters.

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Agree completely with Qtrmeg => the Q25 does an excellent job of keeping the drives cool ... there is VERY good airflow across the 5 hot-swap cages; and there's enough additional airflow through the bottom plate to keep any drives mounted on the bottom plate (which also provides good convection cooling) at very reasonable temps.

 

As long as you're using an SFX power supply there should be NO problem with the cooling.

 

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Being in the tropics with no air on where the river is, my drives idled low 40s and hit 60 on parity checks.  The Q25 was just too small.

 

I migrated to a Fractal Node 804 and what a difference.  Low 30 idles, low forty parity.  And the room to work is nice.

 

It's about the same height as a Q25 but wider.  A cube.  If you have the extra width people should consider it as a wider alternative.

 

I have had zero issues with the Q25 case running too hot. If you use an ATX power supply and stuff the little remaining space with wires & cables I can see why you would have a problem, but it's been advised not to use an ATX PS since page #1 of this thread.

 

I can't remember anyone talking about fan efficiency with regard to hot climates but most people want case fans to be efficient & quiet. You probably want yours to blow your hair back.

 

As for the Q25 being small, yes it is is VERY SMALL! It is 20.4 liters, which is slightly over the 20 liter limit that most people agree is the limit for small form factor. You can't just buy random parts and whine to me when it doesn't work out for you, especially when you are the first person to not like a Q25 build.

 

Was that too harsh? Because the case you recommended is twice the size of the Q25 at over 40 liters.

 

Chill out son.  It was an observation I shared and not a whine. The Q25 kept me going for 3 years but once it fully populated with spinners I had issues.  But that's in the tropics where the server sits in around 30c indoors.

 

But hey, let me see if I can find an ignore feature on this board and do me a favour and add me to it

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Thank you Gary, that's exactly what I needed. I wanted graphics so I went with the Xeon E3-1245V5, which is middle of the road I guess. The parts so far are here, and I'm hoping I've got everything right >>>

 

New Unraid NAS

 

I ordered the memory from Kingston and they say it will be available 7/1, (which I'll believe when I see it). You had linked to these before >>>

 

Newegg.com/Product=Kingston ValueRAM 32GB

 

Qtrmeg,

 

Did you build this unit?  If, so are you happy with it?  I am looking at building a replacement server with the same parts, but with the PC-M25 case.

 

Thanks, srengr.

 

I built it a couple weeks ago and used the M25 case, that link is updated with the correct parts I used. I like it very much but there are a couple things you might want to change. I used a Bronze non-modular power supply that could be improved on. I actually didn't want a modular unit because I can get better wire management & airflow, but I would absolutely use a SFF PS regardless of what brand/model you decide on. The PS is right on top of the motherboard in both of these cases and you really want as much space between as you can get.

 

I also had a hard time deciding on either the Asrock MB or the Supermicro X11SSM-F. I gave up IPMI for onboard sound & better display options. Ironically onboard sound & graphics is pretty much not functional with Skylark but who knows what will happen in the future.

 

Qtrmeg,

 

Thanks for the info and recommendations.  I had the E3-1245 v5 on my list for the same on board video/audio options as you voiced.  I did not know there was an issue with the Skylake in this area, thanks for the heads up.  Rethinking my choices...

 

srengr

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Hoping for some help with a new Q25B build:

 

Upgrading by current unraid box in a Q08B which is using the SUPERMICRO MBD-X7SPA-HF-O Mini ITX with Atom D510 processor.

 

Use case is for storage plus probably ~5 dockers, most intense being plex (max 2-3 streams).  No VMs. 

 

Already have the drives from my current array, need help selecting cost-effective but ample motherboard/processor/memory and an SSD cache drive for the dockers.  All the examples of recent builds I've found seem like overkill for my purposes and I'm looking to not spend more than necessary to cover my bases.

 

Any thoughts would be much appreciated, thanks!

 

A few thoughts ...

 

=> There's really no reason to move from the Q08 to a Q25B.  Both easily hold 7 3.5" drives ... with the Q08 there are 6 3.5" slots plus you can put one in the 5.25" bay;  with the Q25B there are 5 hot-swap bays and you can put 2 on bottom plate.  It's possible, using spacers, to add a couple more on the bottom of the Q25, but unless you plan to do that, there's no real reason to switch cases unless it's worth it to you for the easier drive-swap capability.  I DO like the nice "pop-off" side panel on the Q25B a lot more than the tiny screws you have to remove on the Q08, but they're both very nice cases.    I've used the Q08 for several desktop PC builds.

 

=>  Your current D510 build is an exellent unit for NAS-only usage; but I agree you need more "horsepower" for Dockers and Plex.    If price isn't the sole consideration, I'd use a server class motherboard and a CPU that supports ECC [Current gen i3 or Xeon E3].    This is a good choice:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813599009

[Although Newegg doesn't show it, it DOES support Skylake i3/5/7 CPUs if you don't want to use a Xeon -- but I'd at least use ECC RAM and a CPU with ECC support - either an i3 or a Xeon E3]  Note that if you use a Xeon you need to get one that has built-in graphics (all of the Skylake i3's do; but not all Xeons do).

 

Note that this upgrade will make a HUGE increase in your CPU "horsepower" => your Atom D510 scores 654 on PassMark;  a low-end Core i3-6100 scores  5330, and the E3 Xeons can double that.    You'll not only have PLENTY of power for Dockers and a couple Plex streams, but if you should later decide to run a VM or two you can easily do so.    You could save a few $$ by using a Pentium G4400, which still has ECC support and scores a respectable 3676 on PassMark, but for ~ $50 difference I'd go with the i3-6100 just for "insurance", primarily in case you want to run an extra Plex stream, but also for a bit more "horsepower" if you ever use a VM.  Both support both vt-x and vt-d, so they'll work fine with VM's, should you ever decide to add one.

 

I do agree that the i3 is "overkill" for your stated needs; and the G4400 is really plenty.  Only you can decide if bumping up to an i3 feels like you'd be spending "... more than necessary to cover my bases ..." or is simply good insurance against possible increasing demands on the system in the future.

 

One other thought:  You apparently aren't running dual parity, but if you should decide to do so, the CPU demands of the 2nd parity calculation are significantly higher than with single parity.  Any modern CPU (including the G4400) won't have an issue with that; but I suspect your D510 would struggle a bit (it would work fine; you'd just have slower parity checks and drive rebuilds).    But IF you have no plans to move to dual parity, one other alternative would be to simply leave your system as-is for your NAS use, and build a small 2nd server for your apps.  This wouldn't be any cheaper -- in fact it'd probably cost more, since you'd not only need a new motherboard, CPU, memory, but also a new case and PSU -- but depending on where you want to locate the systems might let you use an even smaller case.  Perhaps something like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112424

 

... OR, if your 2nd system doesn't need to be an UnRAID box you could even use a NUC, which is a REALLY nifty little system [i've configured a couple of these in the past few months, and they're VERY nice systems -- in a 4" x 4" x 1.5" box !! => e.g. this little guy scores 3504 on PassMark:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856102146&cm_re=Intel_NUC-_-56-102-146-_-Product ]

 

Bottom line:  Your best choice is probably to simply upgrade your current motherboard/CPU/memory to a current generation Intel setup ... I'd spring for the server-class board so you can use ECC RAM and get either the Pentium G4400 or the i3-6100.    That will let you setup the Dockers you want; easily support 2 or 3 Plex streams (especially with the i3); and will even have enough "horsepower" to support a VM if you should ever decide to go that route.    For what you've outlined, 8GB would be plenty of RAM, but you may want to go with 16GB for a bit more "headroom" for the future.    Simply get a pair of either these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820242154

or these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820242165

 

garycase,

 

Given the stated intentions around support of Skylake CPUs, I am leery of them.  For a new build, what non-Skylake MB/CPU would you recommend-- that supports ECC and works with a Q25 or M25 case? 

 

This would be for a system that stores a large video library, streams to a couple of Kodi client machines (NUC-like), would host a couple of VMs (Windows), and has future proof 'headroom'.  Replacing a couple of v4.7 full-tower systems that have been in faithful service since 2010 with equivalent SFFs.

 

Thanks, srengr

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If you don't want to use a Skylake processor, just go with the previous generation.

 

This is a good choice for the motherboard:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157466

 

... and this CPU will give you a PassMark of 9997, which is plenty of "horsepower" for future growth:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117315

[Note this does not have onboard video, but the motherboard has IPMI and a video output, so you don't really need additional video unless you need to pass an adapter through to a VM ... in that case use an E3-1246:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117318 ]

 

... and 16GB of RAM:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148770

 

Those are for a mini-ITX based setup (Q25) => note that if you use the M25 case you could also use a micro-ATX motherboard, which would give you more options for expansion, since these board support more than a single expansion slot.

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

Sorry to necro an old thread, but this is directly related to the Q25 case.

 

This is not about the box in my sig, but it is similar.


Since upgrading to 6.4.x, drives keep dropping offline. Diags attached, but I'm pretty sure it is because it has an add-on SATA card with the Marvell chipset:

  [1b4b:9235] 01:00.0 SATA controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88SE9235 PCIe 2.0 x2 4-port SATA 6 Gb/s Controller (rev 11)

I'm thinking about replacing the card with an LSI 9201-16e, that would allow future external expansion, and I'll just bring an external cable back inside to connect the drives on the bottom of the case:
  https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B013G4EX9K/ 


The problem is, I can only find a SAS to straight SATA breakout cable (I can't find any with angled SATA connectors)

 

I'm a few hours away from the system, but I seem to remember using angled connectors to get to the drives on the bottom rack. Can someone confirm whether straight cables will be able to connect to the 3.5" drives on the bottom of the case?  If not, is there some of angle adapter that would let me make the connection from an SAS breakout cable?

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

dataam01-diagnostics-20180218-1145.zip

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Sorry to necro an old thread, but this is directly related to the Q25 case.

 

This is not about the box in my sig, but it is similar.

 

Since upgrading to 6.4.x, drives keep dropping offline. Diags attached, but I'm pretty sure it is because it has an add-on SATA card with the Marvell chipset:

  [1b4b:9235] 01:00.0 SATA controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88SE9235 PCIe 2.0 x2 4-port SATA 6 Gb/s Controller (rev 11)

I'm thinking about replacing the card with an LSI 9201-16e, that would allow future external expansion, and I'll just bring an external cable back inside to connect the drives on the bottom of the case:

  https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B013G4EX9K/ 

 

The problem is, I can only find a SAS to straight SATA breakout cable (I can't find any with angled SATA connectors)

 

I'm a few hours away from the system, but I seem to remember using angled connectors to get to the drives on the bottom rack. Can someone confirm whether straight cables will be able to connect to the 3.5" drives on the bottom of the case?  If not, is there some of angle adapter that would let me make the connection from an SAS breakout cable?

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

dataam01-diagnostics-20180218-1145.zip

 

You could use something like this.

 

CableDeconn Dual Mini SAS SFF-8088 To SAS36P SFF-8087 Adapter In PCI bracket https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PRXOQFA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_J5RIAbNPFH68M

 

Connect with an SFF-8088 to SFF-8088. Then use this on the inside

 

CableDeconn 18' Mini SAS 36P SFF-8087 To 4 SATA 7Pin 90 Degrees Target Hard Disk Data Cable 0.5M https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XBE4DGO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_.7RIAbRD16ZVY

 

 

Also I have never been happier to ditch my Marvell controllers for an LSI 9207-8i. No more sata errors and faster parity checks too.

 

Also there are some internal/external combo lsi cards.

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14 hours ago, dmacias said:

You could use something like this.

 

CableDeconn Dual Mini SAS SFF-8088 To SAS36P SFF-8087 Adapter In PCI bracket https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PRXOQFA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_J5RIAbNPFH68M

 

Connect with an SFF-8088 to SFF-8088. Then use this on the inside

 

CableDeconn 18' Mini SAS 36P SFF-8087 To 4 SATA 7Pin 90 Degrees Target Hard Disk Data Cable 0.5M https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XBE4DGO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_.7RIAbRD16ZVY

 

 

Also I have never been happier to ditch my Marvell controllers for an LSI 9207-8i. No more sata errors and faster parity checks too.

 

Also there are some internal/external combo lsi cards.

 

Thanks! I really like that int/ext adapter, and I'm amazed you found angled connectors, my searches were coming up blank

 

In the end, I decided to simplify things and move the drives from the bottom tray out to an external case:
  https://www.pc-pitstop.com/sata_enclosures/scsat84xt.asp 

 

In theory, I could eventually buy a second one of those and fill up the whole 9201-16e card. As you can see, the storage needs for this system have exceeded what it was initially spec'd for :)

 

Now, if anyone has any suggestions on how to add a 10G nic w/o losing the disk controller, I'm all ears :) The mobo is an Asrock E3C224D2I with one PCIe slot.

 

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5 hours ago, ljm42 said:

Now, if anyone has any suggestions on how to add a 10G nic w/o losing the disk controller, I'm all ears :) The mobo is an Asrock E3C224D2I with one PCIe slot.

If the mobo supports bifurcation, you can get a pcie splitter.
Its not super straight forward, but with the right hardware it can work.

Edited by tjb_altf4
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