Ford Prefect Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I am still giving this more thoughts...debating about virtualization is nice but is this the right way for making unRAID more poular? I think unRAID needs another deployment/distribution method...more like google or apple does it. For this the components architecture needs an overhaul. Yes, I think the existing parts md-module and emhttp need to be re-worked. 1. md-kernel module ...this is the real technical CORE, keep it...make it available to everyone..it is open-source already....everyone can incorporate it into a distro or installation of his/her own. 2. integration app/module - this is new...it does everything emhttp does today, but without a GUI....it needs to provide an open API...maybe based on REST...*this* is the real product. Make it available with the package mechanisms of all major distros for users to purchase 3. UI - this is interacting with the API of no.2 ...can be a Web-UI, a mobile app, a server agent...whatever you wish....this is nothing more or better/other than a plugin...because of the APi, others can roll their own. Maybe because of no. 2, the first UI will be a plugin for that distro/package where the user purchased unRAID for. Quote Link to comment
dheg Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 oh boy, it's this thread exciting! Quote Link to comment
dheg Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 How about this as a compromise... Being the poor college student that Ironic is, he puts together an Slackware 14.1 64 bit with unRAID Xen and KVM ISO (since the unRAID wiki is complicated and incomplete). During the install (to a flash drive or Hard Drive) you select if you want a KDE Linux Desktop (looks and works much like Windows), XBMC or just a terminal screen. He will also provide a repo where you can do... slackpkg install mysql couchpotato plexmediasever etc. If you want to install various packages. Since the Slackware repo sucks he can add the popular ones or users requests so none of you have to compile stuff. Would any of you guys be willing to donate money to Ironic if he does that and maintains a repo with software which it updates with new versions as they come out? So this doesn't get lost in the noise, and since only Ford and Weebo have confirmed their support (sorry if I missed someone else guys ): I'd would gladly contribute in any way I can, being that funds/time/testing or else. And since at the end of the day, this is all about compromise and money talks louder than anything else, should something like http://www.kickstarter.com/ be considered? This is of course something for Tom to manage. It would certainly give us more exposure, and would allow us to use our 'digital-personal-brand' to promote unRAID (is Tom #2 still around?). Quote Link to comment
dheg Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 in this community effort for a unRAID OS with KVM, shouldn't we talk also about: an email/notification system a nicer polished webGUI (ie boxcar or simplefeatures) This would certainly round the product, right? And this brings another question: how are we tracking all the good ideas in this thread, could GitHub be used, maybe not for actual development, but at least for tracking purposes.? Quote Link to comment
dheg Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 And final post (for now), promised ! Why keep Slackware and not move the whole thing to CentOS (which is leading the poll at this moment)? I'm still talking about an unRAID OS, but by reading this thread my understanding (and please forgive me as I'm no expert), it that Slackware is kind of dead. Shouldn't we steer or efforts for a 64bit OS for a more active distro? Quote Link to comment
Ice_Black Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 If you have Xen or KVM running with a way to startup VM's, what's the point in having XBMC "native"? Why not just run it in a VM, or how about running XBMCbuntu in a VM? As for managing the VM itself - can't this be done using the shell to start? Are there any web-based management tools for Xen and/or KVM. There is.. SolusVM Virtual Server Control Panel Solus Virtual Manager (SolusVM) is a Web GUI based VPS management system with full OpenVZ, Linux KVM, Xen Paravirtualization and Xen HVM support. That mean we still can write our own Control Panel Quote Link to comment
Njon Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 And if I have an atom? Could I use the system without any supervisor support? I don't want any virtual machine, but is it possible to install it anyway? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment
Ford Prefect Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 And if I have an atom? Could I use the system without any supervisor support? I don't want any virtual machine, but is it possible to install it anyway? ....as the Atom is a 64bit core you can run it. AFAIK some maybe all? have vt-x support, so you even *could* do it with supervisor support. Quote Link to comment
jumperalex Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 And final post (for now), promised ! Why keep Slackware and not move the whole thing to CentOS (which is leading the poll at this moment)? I'm still talking about an unRAID OS, but by reading this thread my understanding (and please forgive me as I'm no expert), it that Slackware is kind of dead. Shouldn't we steer or efforts for a 64bit OS for a more active distro? With zero hands on experience, but doing some research on Arch and CentOS I want to change my vote from Other to CentOS. I can't change my actual poll answer, but I'm just putting it out there. Quote Link to comment
johnodon Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It would be a good time to have a hard stop to 32 Bit, those Plugins and Slackware and have unRAID 6.0 be a fresh / new start for 64 Bit and new 64 Bit Plugins. I'm guessing that this is a direction Tom would not go in as there is still a subset of x86-only users. Tom would be VERY reluctant to disregard them if they paid for a license. John Quote Link to comment
jumperalex Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 If you have Xen or KVM running with a way to startup VM's, what's the point in having XBMC "native"? Why not just run it in a VM, or how about running XBMCbuntu in a VM? Assuming my understanding is all correct: you are right running XBMC in its own VM would be preferable for people who want to keep their host Tidy. However for people who's hardware cannot do video pass through, running XBMC on the host would be the solution. Quote Link to comment
jumperalex Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It would be a good time to have a hard stop to 32 Bit, those Plugins and Slackware and have unRAID 6.0 be a fresh / new start for 64 Bit and new 64 Bit Plugins. I'm guessing that this is a direction Tom would not go in as there is still a subset of x86-only users. Tom would be VERY reluctant to disregard them if they paid for a license. John The right and reasonable way to go about this would be for 5.x 32-bit support to continue in its current state with bug fixes but no new features. Third-party 32-bit plugin development (which is not a function of Limetech) would likely slow to a trickle when 64-bit came out. Plugin authors with generous souls might provide ongoing support for bug fixes or simple base package upgrades, while others might abandon them completely. But that situation is exactly what part of this discussion is trying to avoid going forward. At some point devs do need to devote development effort to new architectures that might not benefit the old one. The suggestion isn't to abandon 5.x 32-bit support, but to begin 6.0 64-bit from a clean slate unencumbered by the baggage accumulated and the compromises made over the years to not break compatibility. Nothing done in support of 6.0 will impact 5.x other than 5.x will go into long term support. As for that subset of users with hardware that can't even support appliance level 64-bit unraid ... well those are people, I would guess, who really really REALLY like stable unchanging setups. So none of this interests or impacts them anyway regardless if 6.0 starts fresh or not. Quote Link to comment
jumperalex Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I am still giving this more thoughts...debating about virtualization is nice but is this the right way for making unRAID more poular? I think unRAID needs another deployment/distribution method...more like google or apple does it. For this the components architecture needs an overhaul. Yes, I think the existing parts md-module and emhttp need to be re-worked. 1. md-kernel module ...this is the real technical CORE, keep it...make it available to everyone..it is open-source already....everyone can incorporate it into a distro or installation of his/her own. 2. integration app/module - this is new...it does everything emhttp does today, but without a GUI....it needs to provide an open API...maybe based on REST...*this* is the real product. Make it available with the package mechanisms of all major distros for users to purchase 3. UI - this is interacting with the API of no.2 ...can be a Web-UI, a mobile app, a server agent...whatever you wish....this is nothing more or better/other than a plugin...because of the APi, others can roll their own. Maybe because of no. 2, the first UI will be a plugin for that distro/package where the user purchased unRAID for. +1 this ^^^ With the "obvious" addition of course that there would still need to be a Limetech provided, approved, and required-for-troubleshooting-support, GUI. Or what that the implication of your last sentence and I missed the nuance? Quote Link to comment
WeeboTech Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 And final post (for now), promised ! Why keep Slackware and not move the whole thing to CentOS (which is leading the poll at this moment)? I'm still talking about an unRAID OS, but by reading this thread my understanding (and please forgive me as I'm no expert), it that Slackware is kind of dead. Shouldn't we steer or efforts for a 64bit OS for a more active distro? With zero hands on experience, but doing some research on Arch and CentOS I want to change my vote from Other to CentOS. I can't change my actual poll answer, but I'm just putting it out there. The poll can be modified to allow users to change their votes. If the OP wants he, or we the moderators, can make an adjustment. Quote Link to comment
johnodon Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It would be a good time to have a hard stop to 32 Bit, those Plugins and Slackware and have unRAID 6.0 be a fresh / new start for 64 Bit and new 64 Bit Plugins. I'm guessing that this is a direction Tom would not go in as there is still a subset of x86-only users. Tom would be VERY reluctant to disregard them if they paid for a license. John The right and reasonable way to go about this would be for 5.x 32-bit support to continue in its current state with bug fixes but no new features. I think Tom's argument would be "People did not pay for a product that will stop development on the actual product they paid for". Personally, I have an x64 capable system so I could care less. John Quote Link to comment
Ice_Black Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It would be a good time to have a hard stop to 32 Bit, those Plugins and Slackware and have unRAID 6.0 be a fresh / new start for 64 Bit and new 64 Bit Plugins. I'm guessing that this is a direction Tom would not go in as there is still a subset of x86-only users. Tom would be VERY reluctant to disregard them if they paid for a license. John The right and reasonable way to go about this would be for 5.x 32-bit support to continue in its current state with bug fixes but no new features. I think Tom's argument would be "People did not pay for a product that will stop development on the actual product they paid for". Personally, I have an x64 capable system so I could care less. John People have paid for Windows XP and its no longer updated.... Quote Link to comment
johnodon Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It would be a good time to have a hard stop to 32 Bit, those Plugins and Slackware and have unRAID 6.0 be a fresh / new start for 64 Bit and new 64 Bit Plugins. I'm guessing that this is a direction Tom would not go in as there is still a subset of x86-only users. Tom would be VERY reluctant to disregard them if they paid for a license. John The right and reasonable way to go about this would be for 5.x 32-bit support to continue in its current state with bug fixes but no new features. I think Tom's argument would be "People did not pay for a product that will stop development on the actual product they paid for". Personally, I have an x64 capable system so I could care less. John People have paid for Windows XP and its no longer updated.... I figured that would be the counter argument. I really don't want to take this offtopic...but...the migration from WinXP to Vista/WIN7 did not require a HW upgrade for a lot of people. Moving from and x86 architecture to x64 leaves these users only 2 option... 1. But new HW 2. Use a different product John Quote Link to comment
Finka Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Would any of you guys be willing to donate money to Ironic if he does that and maintains a repo So, we finally come to the bottom of it. I guess, that is why it was clearly said in the begining of this thread that there will be no how-to guide on this? You're thying to access if there's money to be made if one cooks up his own distro with emhttp included in it? Want us to make a commitment of some sort, preorder maybe? And, this whole thread turns into a big shouting match "Slackware sux!" when one and the same poster keeps repeating it in numerous posts thruought this thread (scoring more points if he somehow works in the phrase "Fortune 500 Companies" in it). Personally I think Tom made a great decision going with Slackware! Keep it nice and simple. If someone wants a full blown distro, they can always run it in a VM. Quote Link to comment
dheg Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Finka, while I respect your opinion I don't share it. I'm willing to pay more if that helps to move things forward. It could be licensing, donation-ware, you name it. For the same reason I've donated to CP, SB or Wikipedia, among other. I'm sure there are some people like you, and some like me, no judgment attached, and I don't see a valid reason because you and I can't co-exist. And to be clear, I have no affiliation/relationship with grumpy, badger, or ford Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment
Ashe Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I think the point has already been made that if someone wants to rip off unRAID, with or without tom and profit from it then it isn't a difficult process for some talented people on here, but that isn't what is being discussed. If people are willing to donate long hours to assisting what is a stand alone business or helping a community then there can't be an issue with that I have read this thread from the first post and the thread that led to it. Developing the system to 64 bit and a distro delivery doesn't have to mean the end of the way unRAID is now, and while the existing users have to be considered, so do the users that want more out of the product. UnRAID was a fantastic product when I discovered it two years ago but I have realised I can make far more use of it with the equipment I have and I would like that process simplified as is being discussed. If half the topics being discussed here come to reality then unRAID will be a phenomenal piece of software. If not and it continues the way it is, then it will get left behind. Quote Link to comment
johnodon Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Finka, while I respect your opinion I don't share it. I'm willing to pay more if that helps to move things forward. It could be licensing, donation-ware, you name it. For the same reason I've donated to CP, SB or Wikipedia, among other. I'm sure there are some people like you, and some like me, no judgment attached, and I don't see a valid reason because you and I can't co-exist. And to be clear, I have no affiliation/relationship with grumpy, badger, or ford Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk Not to mention the HOURS that grumpy has spent with me offline in teamviewer sessions to try and get some things going. He never asked for a dime. Quote Link to comment
Finka Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Finka, while I respect your opinion I don't share it. I'm willing to pay more if that helps to move things forward. It could be licensing, donation-ware, you name it. For the same reason I've donated to CP, SB or Wikipedia, among other. Oh, I've donated too. That's not the point. It's just amusing how they're dancing around it. Quote Link to comment
johnodon Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Finka, while I respect your opinion I don't share it. I'm willing to pay more if that helps to move things forward. It could be licensing, donation-ware, you name it. For the same reason I've donated to CP, SB or Wikipedia, among other. Oh, I've donated too. That's not the point. It's just amusing how they're dancing around it. Most of this will be moved to the bilge but that's OK... I did not see any dancing at all. grumpy merely said that if some would like to throw some $$$ at IronicBadger it would be appreciated(being a poor college student). I don't think it can get more direct than that. In the end, I am willing to bet that they would release their work even if they did not receive a single penny. Bottom line...they love this stuff. John Quote Link to comment
Finka Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Most of this will be moved to the bilge but that's OK... Just because you disagree with someone's opinion is not a good reason to move their posts to "bilge". Quite a few people have quit this forum over such bs in the past. You don't benefit much if you leave just the groupies. Quote Link to comment
johnodon Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 It will be moved due to the fact that it is offtopic. Anyway, I am not a mod. Quote Link to comment
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