64 Bit unRAID running natively on Arch Linux with full hypervisor support



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Agreed, but there may be dependancy issues.

emhttp currently creates the samba and nfs export files.

Restarts the daemons in question.

 

In it's current methodology, emhttp is almost it's own system service manager.

time, samba, nfs, afp, usershares.  So there's allot to consider there.

 

It creates the shares using the Samba shares with config files that are saved unRAID USB Flash Drive.

 

Tom would only need to change the start / stop / restart command.

 

Instead of...

 

/etc/rc.d/rc.rc.samba restart

 

It would be...

 

systemctl restart samba.service

 

Agreed, I do see that. But then some of the dependency mapping may need to change in a base distro.

i.e. samba needs to be shutdown before emhttp.  Samba should not be started until emhttp is started and active since emhttp creates the samba config files.

 

other ideas being... emhttp may require some other coding to perhaps allow xmlrpc or some other remote procedure calls to 'create' the config files without starting the whole array, so that systemd can be used to start the service.

 

I'm talking out of ignorance here, so please bear with me.  My point is some of the benefits of systemd may not be realizable right away with filesystem/network filesystem/usershare access.

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Agreed, I do see that. But then some of the dependency mapping may need to change in a base distro.

i.e. samba needs to be shutdown before emhttp.  Samba should not be started until emhttp is started and active since emhttp creates the samba config files.

 

A crude emhttp systemd

 


[unit]
Description = Starts instance of emhttp using xinit
Before = getty.target <--- Start emhttp before login prompt and after everything else.

[service]
Type = simple
ExecStart = /usr/local/sbin/emhttp
Restart = on-abort 

[install]
WantedBy = multi-user.target

 

It works.

 

Again, because systemd keeps track / knows if services have started or not... Like I said, it's SMART.

 

Samba isn't going to start till after the network is up and running. Should the network not start, samba won't attempt to start.

 

other ideas being... emhttp may require some other coding to perhaps allow xmlrpc or some other remote procedure calls to 'create' the config files without starting the whole array, so that systemd can be used to start the service.

 

the unRAID rc.samba (start / stop / restart) has nothing to do with how Samba shares are created and populated in unRAID.

 

emhttp makes changes in the /etc/samba/ directory itself and adds the shares using the smb-names.conf smb-shares.conf smb.conf files.

 

That works in every Linux Distro I can think of and I have successfully tested unRAID on 4 Linux Distros to date. I didn't have to do anything but edit the original smb.conf to point to the other two files that emhttp creates / uses.

 

I'm talking out of ignorance here, so please bear with me.  My point is some of the benefits of systemd may not be realizable right away with filesystem/network filesystem/usershare access.

 

Like I said earlier... It's not that Sysinitv doesn't work. It's "uninformed of active dependencies" (stupid) and doesn't provide a lot of information or feedback to the user, plugins, emhttp, etc. Basically, it's a "hope for the best" approach.

 

The main advantage of systemd is the information / feedback to the user during boot. They will know if the network is up / working, if hostname was set, if the NTP service started, if the unRAID USB Flash Drive was mounted, if NFS started, if emhttp started successfully, etc.

 

Another added benefit it keeps track / starts services in the correct order based on their various dependencies (file system isn't going to try to mount until after fsck has run or NFS won't start until after the network is up, etc.).

 

Another benefit is for plugins and how scripts and the various services are stopped / started / restarted / verified if they are running, etc.

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If we change the word stupid to 'uninformed of active dependencies' it sounds better and makes sense.

 

Since we are all about being PC now... would these work when responding to certain individuals?

 

Intellectually impaired?

 

A knowledge-based nonpossessor?

 

Socially misaligned?

 

Mentally challenged?

 

Learning impaired?

 

Differently-brained?

 

Cranial Malnourished?

 

Conversationally deficient?

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the unRAID rc.samba (start / stop / restart) has nothing to do with how Samba shares are created and populated in unRAID.

 

emhttp makes changes in the /etc/samba/ directory itself and adds the shares using the smb-names.conf smb-shares.conf smb.conf files.

 

Samba/NFS/Usershares should not be started until the md driver is loaded and running.

The network file services should not be started if the user does not have the array auto start check box enabled.

 

I think systemd is a great, but I also believe it's use is not as simple as being stated when all of the dependencies are considered.

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If we change the word stupid to 'uninformed of active dependencies' it sounds better and makes sense.

 

Since we are all about being PC now... would these work when responding to certain individuals?

 

Intellectually impaired?

 

A knowledge-based nonpossessor?

 

Socially misaligned?

 

Mentally challenged?

 

Learning impaired?

 

Differently-brained?

 

Cranial Malnourished?

 

Conversationally deficient?

 

Funny, but my comment wasn't geared to individuals in that manner.

For a newbie, they would be wondering why is sysvinit stupid and by saying 'uninformed of active dependencies" it becomes clearer.

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So, here is a question.

 

It looks like CentOS is running away in the poll.  If all of this comes to fruition, can I do the following:

 

- Install CentOS now on my baremetal

- Install KVM/Xen on the CentOS host

- Get unRAID running in a KVM/Xen VM

- Later...install unRAID on the CentOS host (via a package)

- Nuke the unRAID VM

 

Would be nice if I could hit the ground running and have an easy migration path down the road.

 

John

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So, here is a question.

 

It looks like CentOS is running away in the poll.  If all of this comes to fruition, can I do the following:

 

- Install CentOS now on my baremetal

- Install KVM/Xen on the CentOS host

- Get unRAID running in a KVM/Xen VM

- Later...install unRAID on the CentOS host (via a package)

- Nuke the unRAID VM

 

Would be nice if I could hit the ground running and have an easy migration path down the road.

 

John

 

That, John, is the utopian vision of the future we are discussing yes. Just want Tom onboard. Which currently, for his own reasons, he isn't quite fully so yet.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

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Samba/NFS/Usershares should not be started until the md driver is loaded and running.

The network file services should not be started if the user does not have the array auto start check box enabled.

 

Bingo.

 

Without modifying Systemd and using that crude one I made above. emhttp starts right before login after everything else has had a chance to start.

 

The same way Tom has Sysinitv to do it now.

 

I didn't have to change one systemd service to get unRAID to work on 4 Systemd Distros I have used.

 

In fact, after loading 100s of Linux Packages, I have only had to change 1 systemd service the entire time. That was XBMC so it starts after mysql (since my PC boots up so fast).

 

I think systemd is a great, but I also believe it's use is not as simple as being stated when all of the dependencies are considered.

 

Having used systemd for quite some time, that isn't true.

 

Go load XBMC, owncloud, couchpotato, sabnzb, Wordpress, etc. on Ubuntu and get back to me after you cut and paste and create all the sysinitv commands, tell it how / which user to log in as, fire each one of them up at the right time on boot, etc.

 

Then load those on a Systemd Linux Distro and do the following on any of them:

 

systemctl enable xbmc owncloud couchpotato sabnzb wordpress, etc.

 

It simply works. Why?

 

Because it's a universal standard and the developers / package managers of XBMC, Wordpress, etc. know exactly when they should start (after the the filesystem, after the network, after this, after that, etc.) and can plan for common other services too.

 

Now in my case, I wanted my XBMC to start after mysql. I had to change one setting and when looking at the systemd it makes common sense as to what I needed to change. If I wanted to do that in sysinitv, LOL! 15 step method that may or may not work on each reboot.

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If we change the word stupid to 'uninformed of active dependencies' it sounds better and makes sense.

 

Since we are all about being PC now... would these work when responding to certain individuals?

 

Intellectually impaired?

 

A knowledge-based nonpossessor?

 

Socially misaligned?

 

Mentally challenged?

 

Learning impaired?

 

Differently-brained?

 

Cranial Malnourished?

 

Conversationally deficient?

How about none of the above?

 

To everyone:

 

Please just "talk" with people as if they were in the room with you and outweigh you by 100lbs, you know, with respect and deference :)

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Talking about systemd vs sysvinit is waaaay off-topic here.  This is one of the problems of trying to make unRaid it's own "distro" of sorts - pretty soon we'll start debating KDE vs GNOME and these kinds of debates will never end.

 

I think its exactly the right place to discuss it. Where else would we need to? Etc etc.

 

Not disagreeing for the sake of it you understand, just wonder what you think the alternative is to having that discussion here. It is directly relevant.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

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Talking about systemd vs sysvinit is waaaay off-topic here.  This is one of the problems of trying to make unRaid it's own "distro" of sorts - pretty soon we'll start debating KDE vs GNOME and these kinds of debates will never end.

 

I think its exactly the right place to discuss it. Where else would we need to? Etc etc.

 

Not disagreeing for the sake of it you understand, just wonder what you think the alternative is to having that discussion here. It is directly relevant.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Leave this a Xen/KVM thread and move the other talk into another (just like what was done with the talk about donations).

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Talking about systemd vs sysvinit is waaaay off-topic here.  This is one of the problems of trying to make unRaid it's own "distro" of sorts - pretty soon we'll start debating KDE vs GNOME and these kinds of debates will never end.

 

I think its exactly the right place to discuss it. Where else would we need to? Etc etc.

 

Not disagreeing for the sake of it you understand, just wonder what you think the alternative is to having that discussion here. It is directly relevant.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Because it's just an implementation detail of the distro.  If the distro uses it, fine.  If not, fine.  Doesn't really matter and it's not an interesting problem imho.

http://www.linuxadvocates.com/2013/04/slackware-is-systemd-inevitable.html

 

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I am still  giving this more thoughts...debating about virtualization is nice but is this the right way for making unRAID more poular?

 

I think unRAID needs another deployment/distribution method...more like google or apple does it.

For this the components architecture needs an overhaul.

Yes, I think the existing parts md-module and emhttp need to be re-worked.

 

1. md-kernel module ...this is the real technical CORE, keep it...make it available to everyone..it is open-source already....everyone can incorporate it into a distro or installation of his/her own.

2. integration app/module - this is new...it does everything emhttp does today, but without a GUI....it needs to provide an open API...maybe based on REST...*this* is the real product.

Make it available with the package mechanisms of all major distros for users to purchase

3. UI - this is interacting with the API of no.2 ...can be a Web-UI, a mobile app, a server agent...whatever you wish....this is nothing more or better/other than a plugin...because of the APi, others can roll their own.

Maybe because of no. 2, the first UI will be a plugin for that distro/package where the user purchased unRAID for.

 

+1 this ^^^  With the "obvious" addition of course that there would still need to be a Limetech provided, approved, and required-for-troubleshooting-support, GUI.  Or what that the implication of your last sentence and I missed the nuance?

 

Yes, that's what I meant..of course it has to be shipped with a GUI app.

Sorry for that, I am not a native english speaker and sometimes I feel my inner Rincewind takes over  (I got my english from reading Discworld novels) ;D ...and thank you for your support.

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I think the point has already been made that if someone wants to rip off unRAID, with or without tom and profit from it then it isn't a difficult process for some talented people on here, but that isn't what is being discussed. If people are willing to donate long hours to assisting what is a stand alone business or helping a community then there can't be an issue with that

 

I have read this thread from the first post and the thread that led to it. Developing the system to 64 bit and a distro delivery doesn't have to mean the end of the way unRAID is now, and while the existing users have to be considered, so do the users that want more out of the product. UnRAID was a fantastic product when I discovered it two years ago but I have realised I can make far more use of it with the equipment I have and I would like that process simplified as is being discussed.

 

If half the topics being discussed here come to reality then unRAID will be a phenomenal piece of software. If not and it continues the way it is, then it will get left behind.

 

Thank you.

+1  from my side.

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Because it's just an implementation detail of the distro.  If the distro uses it, fine.  If not, fine.  Doesn't really matter and it's not an interesting problem imho.

 

So let's cut through all the BS and get straight down to it.

 

1. What is your timeframe for releasing unRAID 64bit?

 

2. Are you releasing that in Slackware?

 

3. If not, which Linux Distro are you using?

 

4. Are you opposed to a user(s) posting a 64 Bit version of unRAID in an ISO on CentOS / Arch / Etc. Linux Distro that users can install?

 

5. If so, are you opposed to a user(s) providing the packages and instructions for how to do it themselves?

 

6. If no to above, are you opposed to a user(s) providing the packages and instructions required to do it Slackware?

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Talking about systemd vs sysvinit is waaaay off-topic here.  This is one of the problems of trying to make unRaid it's own "distro" of sorts - pretty soon we'll start debating KDE vs GNOME and these kinds of debates will never end.

...

it's just an implementation detail of the distro.  If the distro uses it, fine.  If not, fine.  Doesn't really matter and it's not an interesting problem

Exactly!

 

---

BTW, I'm still waiting to see Tom clearly state -- one way or the other -- if he endorses other people including and distributing emhttp with other distros.

 

 

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Speaking of Slackware vs CentOS...

 

I would be more than happy to send Tom a CentOS 6.5 bzimage and bzroot that looks almost exactly like the Slackware one and just as small.

 

Really the only difference Tom would notice is CentOS using systemd and not the god awful Sysvinit.

 

You know I was considering suggesting just that, and maybe even a "quickie" ISO of what Ironic is suggesting, but didn't feel comfortable suggesting it.  But I think that would be huge in giving Tom some idea of how it might work out and even give him something to bang on without going through the time to bake it himself.

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There is..  SolusVM Virtual Server Control Panel

 

Solus Virtual Manager (SolusVM) is a Web GUI based VPS management system with full OpenVZ, Linux KVM, Xen Paravirtualization and Xen HVM support.

 

That mean we still can write our own Control Panel

 

But this is a commercial product, isn't it?

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There is..  SolusVM Virtual Server Control Panel

 

Solus Virtual Manager (SolusVM) is a Web GUI based VPS management system with full OpenVZ, Linux KVM, Xen Paravirtualization and Xen HVM support.

 

That mean we still can write our own Control Panel

 

But this is a commercial product, isn't it?

 

...looks like it.

Also some require an extra host to run a server for ths app, like convirt (such a host can be virtualized though, but still not my favourite)

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THIS...

 

MbaxtBR.png?1

 

Get's translated to this (if NOT using libvirt):

 

qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -M q35 -m 1024 -cpu host \
-smp 6,sockets=1,cores=6,threads=1 \
-bios /usr/share/qemu/bios.bin -vga none \
-device ioh3420,bus=pcie.0,addr=1c.0,multifunction=on,port=1,chassis=1,id=root.1 \
-device vfio-pci,host=07:00.0,bus=root.1,addr=00.0,multifunction=on,x-vga=on \
-device vfio-pci,host=07:00.1,bus=root.1,addr=00.1

(Note: Example above shows passingthrough an nVidia Video Card (and the audio) to a VM.)

 

Or this (if using libvirt):

 

virt-install --connect qemu:///system -n vm10 -r 512 --vcpus=2 --disk path=/var/lib/libvirt/images/vm10.img,size=12 -c /dev/cdrom --vnc --noautoconsole --os-type linux --accelerate --network=bridge:br0 --hvm 

 

libvirt has a "database" so once you install / configure the VM...

 

virsh start unRAID

 

Without libvirt and using straight QEMU commands (first example above), it has to be done each time.

 

Both work fine and both make sense to me. It would to you too if spend 15 minutes and understood the structure / syntax.

 

Don't you think people would be off the races posting here how they installed / configured Ubuntu / Debian / Arch / FreeBSD / illumos / etc. and provide the command line? I know I would.

 

I wouldn't let this be the roadblock that stops this.

 

If a "power user" wants it bad enough, he will figure it out, have plenty of help here, on libvirts site, in other forums, etc. It's EVERYWHERE else on the web (libvirt is a Red Hat creation and been around a long while. It's VERY VERY popular and tons of info / resources / examples on the web).

 

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I am still  giving this more thoughts...debating about virtualization is nice but is this the right way for making unRAID more poular?

 

I think unRAID needs another deployment/distribution method...more like google or apple does it.

For this the components architecture needs an overhaul.

Yes, I think the existing parts md-module and emhttp need to be re-worked.

 

1. md-kernel module ...this is the real technical CORE, keep it...make it available to everyone..it is open-source already....everyone can incorporate it into a distro or installation of his/her own.

2. integration app/module - this is new...it does everything emhttp does today, but without a GUI....it needs to provide an open API...maybe based on REST...*this* is the real product.

Make it available with the package mechanisms of all major distros for users to purchase

3. UI - this is interacting with the API of no.2 ...can be a Web-UI, a mobile app, a server agent...whatever you wish....this is nothing more or better/other than a plugin...because of the APi, others can roll their own.

Maybe because of no. 2, the first UI will be a plugin for that distro/package where the user purchased unRAID for.

 

+1 this ^^^  With the "obvious" addition of course that there would still need to be a Limetech provided, approved, and required-for-troubleshooting-support, GUI.  Or what that the implication of your last sentence and I missed the nuance?

 

Yes, that's what I meant..of course it has to be shipped with a GUI app.

Sorry for that, I am not a native english speaker and sometimes I feel my inner Rincewind takes over  (I got my english from reading Discworld novels) ;D ...and thank you for your support.

 

The joke might be lost on you if you were not a fan of the movie Better Off Dead (1985), but at least you didn't learn to talk Howard Cosell

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