unRAID fork(), concepts, ideas and discussion, Running unRAID on another distro.

[tr0910]

Lionelhutz, cool it.  You are not helping yourself.  Let Tom1 or Tom2 clarify the strategy.

[trurl]

Current development of unRaid OS will continue:

- webGui improvements

- implementation of features long on the todo list such as alerts, btrfs cache pool, plugin manager, etc. etc.

 

Next, using components from 64-bit unRaid OS, for example, emhttp, as a starting point, there will be

a "fork" project with these goals:

- let key unRaid components work smoothly in other distros (eg, emhttp)

- creation of a rpm (or other package type) of these key components

 

unRaid-fork will permit you to install onto say CentOS or ubuntu, etc.  Someone could also generate,

for example, a CentOS-unRaid install disk.

 

Several concepts change with the unRaid-fork:

- you have a system disk to manage (actually you are just managing the base distro as intended)

- some things might no longer be directly controlled by emhttp, for example, the networking protocols,

in particular Active Directory and AFP.

- the idea is that emhttp becomes in some ways like mdadm in that it lets you configure assigned storage

devices and manage unRaid-style shares.

- there will probably be several more conceptual changes

 

It could very well end up this version of unRaid becomes entirely open source, but this is not

the decision at present.

The limetech quote above does not seem to be on the forum. Was it part of the deleted thread?

 

I'm surprised the forum lets people delete other people's posts.

[lionelhutz]

Current development of unRaid OS will continue:

- webGui improvements

- implementation of features long on the todo list such as alerts, btrfs cache pool, plugin manager, etc. etc.

 

Next, using components from 64-bit unRaid OS, for example, emhttp, as a starting point, there will be

a "fork" project with these goals:

- let key unRaid components work smoothly in other distros (eg, emhttp)

- creation of a rpm (or other package type) of these key components

 

unRaid-fork will permit you to install onto say CentOS or ubuntu, etc.  Someone could also generate,

for example, a CentOS-unRaid install disk.

 

Several concepts change with the unRaid-fork:

- you have a system disk to manage (actually you are just managing the base distro as intended)

- some things might no longer be directly controlled by emhttp, for example, the networking protocols,

in particular Active Directory and AFP.

- the idea is that emhttp becomes in some ways like mdadm in that it lets you configure assigned storage

devices and manage unRaid-style shares.

- there will probably be several more conceptual changes

 

It could very well end up this version of unRaid becomes entirely open source, but this is not

the decision at present.

The limetech quote above does not seem to be on the forum. Was it part of the deleted thread?

 

I'm surprised the forum let's people delete other people's posts.

 

Nope, private email being thrown in my face to prove I'm wrong. It was a message sent privately by Tom so it should never have been made public.

 

It also reads very much like Tom wants to at least oversee his version of a fork. Still nothing in writing turning any unRAID project over to someone else.

[grumpybutfun]

Nope, private email being thrown in my face to prove I'm wrong. It was a message sent privately by Tom so it should never have been made public.

 

1. You were / are wrong.

 

2. You have been accusing me for days of things that simply aren't true and still continue even after being told by people many people including mods not too.

 

3. Tom doesn't care that I posted above or what I posted below later in this post.

 

4. Tom says that he is going to continue development of an unRAID version.

 

5. Tom is going to have separate unRAID version he calls a fork HIMSELF for what I am now calling until released "unRAID AntiChrist Edition" that the rest of us want.

 

6. He is possible going to make "unRAID AntiChrist Edition" open sourced that can be installed in any Linux Distro.

 

You dispute the above, what Tom himself says, me, logic, reason and even mods telling you to stop the nonsense.

 

Below are a couple of questions and some feedback on conversations Tom and I are having. Since you seem to know more than Tom, me, Ford, Ironic, others combined why don't you respond with feedback, answer his questions and exactly how he should do some of things we are discussing. Since you apparently know more about unRAID / KVM / Xen / Virtualization and more of an expert than me (who happens to know more than Tom)... Perhaps he will get your help (and not mine) on just how to do it in unRAID "AntiChrist Edition" and all the various software packages that need to be compiled / installed / configured / etc. correctly:

 

Why wouldn't the licensing work?

 

My concern has to do with the licensing.  I know that the method used in unRaid 5.x will not work as-is with a 64-bit distro.  So how did you get around that?

 

Right I didn't "know" this but I would be really surprised if it wasn't possible.  That has been the main roadblock to my motivation in moving forward with VMs.

 

Let me ask you this: how the hell do I license the s/w then?  Any suggestions?

 

Right that is how it works in later versions of XXXXX, but the command executed by emhttp is... XXXXX

 

So if someone is running emhttp in a distro with updated XXXXX all they have to do is write their own XXXX script and plunk it in XXXXXX.

 

Second, the method I have in mind to handle this will work fine in my 64-bit release, but will not work if you take, for example, emhttp and plop in say CentOS - I can get this to work but whatever distro release you want to use, I would have to make a corresponding emhttp binary.

 

I'm more interested in the possibility of running things in VM's vs. plugins.  I think in the end this is a far better approach for anything other than the simplest apps.  In this case the entire user base would be interested I think.

 

I appreciate the "kick in the ass" this has given me though, sometimes a person needs a kick in the ass.

 

Perhaps if you post the conversations that you and Tom are having, how you are assisting him with the development, how he is coming to you with questions, for input, guidance, assistance, etc.... Just maybe you will be able to convince people to not believe what their eyes are telling them.

[burtjr]

4 pages of off topic stuff. Unbelievable!

[lionelhutz]

LOL, I'll just let people read your posts and clearly see how you're breaching the private trust of Tom by posting his personal messages.

[jumperalex]

yeaaaah riiiight.

 

aaaaaanyway this is some interesting news that is more on topic:

 

[shadow=red,left][glow=red,2,300]Red Hat and the CentOS Project Join Forces to Speed Open Source Innovation[/glow][/shadow]

http://www.redhat.com/about/news/press-archive/2014/1/red-hat-and-centos-join-forces

 

Ya know because it is like ... about CentOS ... and because it is about two entities joining to make the world a better place.

 

That kind of stuff.

[grumpybutfun]

LOL, I'll just let people read your posts and clearly see how you're breaching the private trust of Tom by posting his personal messages.

 

Yeah it's clear to me based on conversations that I have with Tom that I provide no value, serve no purpose and he doesn't trust me.

 

You are mind reader and know for a fact that Tom didn't give me permission to post those, right? After all the imaginary conversations you are not having with him... I'm sure you will dispute this too.

 

It's why I will be banned in the next 5 - 10 minutes, right?

 

It's why I made him aware of 2 ways to get around emhttp (not including my own) and the licensing and why he asked me on ideas how fix that, right?

 

It's why he and I are having conversations about how emhttp checks for licensing and how to "force" people to use it in other Distros, perhaps?

 

I guess he wonders why I have not posted all over the web how to get around emhttp and the unRAID licensing and put him out of business.

 

I guess he wonders why I have not dropped 2 packages (Linux Kernel with unRAID and his emhttp or mine) in Ubuntu, Arch, CentOS, openSUSE, Debian, XBMC, openELEC, etc. which would also make unRAID open sourced by "force" and also put him out of business.

 

Tomorrow if you continue to post in this thread...

 

I am starting a thread on XBMC so we can all have an actual conversation. Like here, I actually contribute and help innovate there too. I am treated with respect over there and I know / work with the many of the Developers, addon guys and Mods. I know for a fact, that what Limetech tolerates on their forum you would be banned in a New York second over there. All I have to do is either ask or let you show your ass.

 

I will post a link tomorrow if this continues and the rest of you can join me over there and we won't have to deal with the thread getting highjacked by trolls like lionelhutz.

[lionelhutz]

I get it. You don't under the simple concept of private messages being private. It's OK, no need to keep ranting about it

[Fx.]

if tom/mods didn't want the information out there as grumpy says it'd be wiped and he'd be gone

 

 

censorship on forums is bad (unless its illegal information)

 

i think people see where you're coming from lionel but i think you just need to chill

 

 

edit: and to be honest, unless specified surely emails with information that doesn't fall into corporate espionage isn't subject to any sort of NDA...

[lionelhutz]

I wonder who told me that it was okay to share that info after taking your shit for the last month?

 

The imaginary Tom you believe you are talking too and know what he thinks / feels or the real Tom who gave me permission?

 

Hmmmmm... I wonder.

 

Yet you didn't post one PM from January, let alone this proof message, lol.

 

And you're taking my shit? Try reading your posts. lol

[Fx.]

(please quote, makes thread far less confusing)

[lionelhutz]

(please quote, makes thread far less confusing)

 

Yes, sorry, it seems your post slipped in there.

[j5428]

Lionelhutz, cool it.  You are not helping yourself.  Let Tom1 or Tom2 clarify the strategy.

 

+1

 

Is it possible to stop this guy from posting in this thread.  He just can't let it go....

 

Just want to say thanks to all of the people that are working on this it sounds very interesting.  I am interested in switching from ESXI and appreciate your work.

 

 

[grumpybutfun]

And you're taking my shit? Try reading your posts. lol

 

I have better things to do than sit here and take his shit. If Tom and the mods won't put a stop to it... I will.

 

Tom needs to implement the Reputation User System in SMF. We could have "voted" that assclown off the island a few days ago and policed this thread ourselves.

 

If anyone would like to further the discussion of "unRAID AntiChrist Edition"... feel free to PM me.

 

As far as "unRAID AntiChrist 64 Bit Edition" goes...

 

If Tom is too busy to take 5 minutes and respond to this very heated discussion / thread by the end of next week... I will go ahead post a link with an ISO of the Distro that you all choose (with unRAID "baked" in) and all the documentation / guides / screenshots / walkthroughs on how to install / configure / use it. It will have all the things we / I have talked about in this thread enabled, ready to go and torture tested.

 

1. Instead of using Linux Kernel 3.9.11... I am bumping "unRAID AntiChrist Edition" to Linux Kernel 3.12 Series so that you have the option to passthrough your nVidia Video Cards to a VM if you want.

 

2. If Tom / Limetech policy is to continue to allow people like the 2 or 3 assclowns that have harassed and attacked me and other users in this thread who freely offer our time, energy and expertise to make unRAID better... I will set up another forum, wiki, portal, etc. using IP Board (Visit the Plex Forum to get an idea of what it will look like / the features it will have) by the end of next week. It will be a forum that the users can also police and give others reputation points and stop events like what has happened over the last few days from occurring.

 

If somebody would be so kind to start a new poll with the various Linux Server Distros... Whatever wins is what I create the ISO for.

 

Till Then...

[Fx.]

me waiting for angry responses:

[bnevets27]

And you're taking my shit? Try reading your posts. lol

 

I see now why you have a 3,000+ post count. Doing a little more reading and a little less talking might do you some good. I don't know why your the only one that has trouble keeping a cool head. After repeated requests and a closed thread why can't you just leave it alone. You have let the entire world know your against the work of grummy and ironic. We heard you, we get it and we may agree or disagree. Why do you have to pollute thread after thread of people trying to have a constructive discussion. I have no idea why you haven't been banned.

 

*runs to bomb shelter from the impending on-slot from lionelhutz*

[JustinChase]

new poll started...

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=31196.0

[grumpybutfun]

*runs to bomb shelter from the impending on-slot from lionelhutz*

 

He is just a symptom of the overall disease.

 

We all have jobs, families, Wives / GFs, kids, lives, hobbies, responsibilities, commitments, etc. but somehow we seem to find time to take 5 minutes to read / post / respond to people who have questions, issues, failures, developing plugins, writing guides, helping users decide on the right equipment, etc. that are not even our paying customers.

 

Business 101 - Give the customers what they want for a reasonable price. Here we have a large amount of paying customers and future customers that want to see the things we have discussed come to light and they are even willing to PAY FOR IT (AGAIN).

 

If Tom doesn't want to get his act together, if he can take 5 minutes out his day to respond to his paying customers, police his own forum (and deal with the 2 or 3 assclowns in this thread), communicate, support his own product, innovate or hire people to do all that for him on top of LONG HISTORY of ignoring us for weeks / months at a time... He is asking / begging / Taunting others to create a competing product that he doesn't have a chance in hell of competing with if the past / present is any indication of how he is going to continue to run this business.

 

I'm an asshole but to A LOT of people I must be tolerable or they are very desperate to have the things we have discussed here because my email and PMs on other forums have been initiated with requests from unRAID / FreeBSD / NAS4Free customers / several developers / etc. that want me to fork unRAID. They have offered money, their time, hardware, willing to develop, document, maintain / write wikis, host a website, forum, etc. and even had 2 different lawyers who use XBMC and unRAID offer to do all the paperwork to set up a LLC or LLP for free.

 

I suspect that Ironic, Ford and others have also had a similar experiences as me. Hell, just the mention of Ironic offering to develop / expand upon unRAID with some of the things discussed in this thread ("still vaporware")... He has already received several large donations by users who really want to see it come to light.

 

This isn't 2005 anymore and with all the innovations with Hardware, Software, Linux, NAS, torrents, usenets, Tivo, etc. and the costs of hardware for Servers / XBMC / Plex / Roku / Hard Drives / Etc. players / machines... He can't hold back innovation and force us to play in his sandbox unless he devotes time / energy / effort / support to make sure we never want to leave.

 

Well that time has long since come and gone and yet here he is... Still doing the same crap he has done since 2005 or won't hire / farm stuff out to able and willing people who will do it for FREE.

 

Having 2+ year development cycles for a "Slackware" / Kernel upgrade, make us wait 3+ years (and counting) for a 64-Bit version, disappearing for weeks / months on end, having hardly any presence on the forum, outdated wikis, guides, documentation, etc.

 

Seriously... We have had Simple Features, Boxcar and now Dynamix (which all three did in a matter of weeks on their own spare time and earned no compensation). Tom still doesn't have a fully functional working new WebGUI after 2+ of development on 5.0 and he has paying customers. We all have been jumping through a bunch of hoops / buying specific hardware so we can run unRAID in a VM to run apps in VMs because either a plugin doesn't exist, isn't maintained or doesn't work reliably. Now we have one guy who is basically writing a Package Manager (boiler) because the damn plugin system is a total mess for the users who can't afford to virtualize unRAID. Within the last few weeks we have people discussing / looking to go down the Docker route as yet another alternative.

 

All of these are bandaids, bardwire and duct tape to work around Tom so we can do simple things that other competing products have / had for a long, long time been able to do.

 

How many WebGUIs do you see users developing for FreeNAS / NAS4Free / etc? How many bandaids, bardwire and duct tape solutions do you see FreeNAS / NAS4Free / etc having rolled out by the user base to work around the developers?

 

2013-12-22: BSD Release: FreeNAS 9.2.0

2013-08-28: BSD Release: FreeNAS 9.1.1

2013-08-03: BSD Release: FreeNAS 9.1.0

2013-03-20: BSD Release: FreeNAS 8.3.1

2012-10-27: BSD Release: FreeNAS 8.3.0

 

Go take a look for yourself with all the announcements, releases, updates, betas, patches / tweaks / bug fixes / upgrades / etc.

 

Distrowatch - More FreeNAS news

 

That is a FREE product... Why can't one you pay for do half of that or at least communicate and acknowledge you even exist / matter?

 

Why is it that Ironic, Ford, myself and countless others offered to do a fork for months all for FREE where Tom gets all the financial rewards (without a single cost / investment from Tom). What did we ask for? A little sub forum on his forum where we can document, provide guides, assist users, etc.

 

What have we gotten? Crickets chirping from Tom and being personally attacked, mocked, badgered by 2 or 3 users who defy the forum policies, the mods and the overall sentiment of the Limetech users on the forums.

[NAS]

The tone of these threads is soul destroying. I literally don't want to read them any more.

 

If someone flames at you ignore it, answering back just ruins your points and everyone loses in the end.

 

A bit of calm, a bit of patience should prevail here. unRAID moves slowly it always has.

[Dougy]

It seems clear that lionelhutz can't take a hint.  perhaps a temp forum ban and a third attempt at this thread would be a good idea?

[lionelhutz]

If Tom is too busy to take 5 minutes and respond to this very heated discussion / thread by the end of next week... I will go ahead post a link with an ISO of the Distro that you all choose (with unRAID "baked" in) and all the documentation / guides / screenshots / walkthroughs on how to install / configure / use it. It will have all the things we / I have talked about in this thread enabled, ready to go and torture tested.

 

 

So, your plan to "prove me wrong" is to demand a response in your favour by threatening to release a distribution which includes unRAID without permission to redistribute unRAID from LimeTech?

 

[grumpybutfun]

So, your plan to "prove me wrong" is to demand a response in your favour by threatening to release a distribution which includes unRAID without permission to redistribute unRAID from LimeTech?

 

Nope.

 

I am releasing a totally opensourced version with my own emhttp that people are free to use, add on too, make it better, etc.

[NAS]

And that helps unRAID how?

[grumpybutfun]

And that helps unRAID how?

 

Instead of one person... It will have a community of talented open sourced people who are going to work on it.

 

If Tom wants, he is free to take those and add them to unRAID.