[REQ] A Newbie Guide to Virtualization, unRAID 64, and unRAID Distro

[bkastner]

In order to get HDMI out to each TV you need either to run a long HDMI cable, or you can do HDMI over Ethernet, however if you already have Ethernet out to the TV you will likely get a better experience with a local endpoint device. I've had HDMI over Ethernet setup previously, but had issues with flickering and it just wasn't seamless.

 

I have had great success with HDMI over Ethernet. My Server boots up, starts 2 XBMC VMs automatically. I can play 1080p with HD Audio no problems. Also tested it with Windows 7/8 running all kinds of benchmarks / games without an issue.

 

Did you do this utilizing visualization? Assuming you did, were you passing through an AMD / nVidia (Quattro Serier) video card?

 

Did you enable the Video Hardware Acceleration on the card or were you using VMWare (If ESXi) or Cirrus Video Drivers (If Xen / XenServer) (which is will do / use by default)?

 

Simple way to tell what driver you are using in XBMC... goto System, System Info, Video Hardware. Also, after starting a Video... Hit "o" on your keyboard / info on your remote and you should see vappi for Intel, VDPAU for nVidia and XVBA or VDPAU for AMD. If you don't see that, you aren't using the Hardware Video Acceleration on your Video Card and will notice that your CPU utilization is very high (it's also on that same screen).

 

Most people don't know when passing through a Video Card in ESXi / Xen / XenServer by default it won't use the Hardware Video Acceleration on the Video Card. Therefore the CPU has to do all the processing and depending on the CPU, that usually is around 70 - 80% of the CPU Utilization.

 

If you enable / configure / install your XBMC (and XBMC VMs) to use Hardware Video Acceleration on the Video Card... CPU Utilization drops down to 10% and on newer CPUs it should be 5% or lower.

 

When I tried it it was a few years ago. I had bought a new house and had it wired with CAT6, but for the run to the main floor and master bedroom they ran HDMI over Ethernet as all the equipment is in a rack in the basement and the run to the master bedroom was over 120 feet. I had everything (cable box, Blu-ray player, media center computer) plugged into a receiver in the basement and used the HDMI solution to the main room TV (I never bothered with the master bedroom). I had various issues, including flickering, color distortion, etc, and since it was only a 40 foot run I just bought a long HDMI cable and replaced the solution. Everything has been flawless since.

 

It was an expensive HDMI over Ethernet solution (~$1,800) and could run to 4 TVs, but I just shelved it and have it sitting under my office desk at the moment (I am open to selling it to anyone interested for a reasonable price). This would have been 3 years ago, so things may have changed, or I may have had an issue specific to me.

 

I really didn't do much testing, and virtualization was not involved at the time. It was a single bare metal PC running Windows 7 with Windows Media Center at the time.

 

[jbartlett]

One thing to keep in mind is that to have HTPC in a VM with a passthrough graphics card, you'll need a motherboard that supports IOMMU as well as vt-d.

 

Finding IOMMU supported desktop class boards is a pain in the ass. I'm currently trying to see if the ASUS X79 DELUXE LGA 2011 Intel X79 board supports it.

 

Unfortunately, the only way I know of now to see if it works is to get the board and try it. It's an expensive process though as the MSI Big Bang MB I tried failed to support PCI passthrough. Not to mention that it went BANG a coupe days ago and let out the blue smoke.

[mattkhan]

Do you mean "iommu as well as vt-x"? as vt-d is the intel brand name for iommu.

 

This page is a good summary - http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/VTd_HowTo - an Asus x79 board is mentioned with a  specific BIOS and controller.

 

[grumpybutfun]

Do you mean "iommu as well as vt-x"? as vt-d is the intel brand name for iommu.

 

This page is a good summary - http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/VTd_HowTo - an Asus x79 board is mentioned with a  specific BIOS and controller.

 

MSI and Asus is better of late but those are of the manufacturers that you have to do some major checking and rechecking on the VT-D / AMD-V and IOMMU.

 

ASRock and Gigabyte in the past have done a much better job with their hardware and BIOs working for PCI Passthrough.

 

If you go look in the Arch / openSUSE / XenServer threads on the first page, I provide links to various places that tell you what works or not.

[bkastner]

I have had great success with HDMI over Ethernet. My Server boots up, starts 2 XBMC VMs automatically. I can play 1080p with HD Audio no problems. Also tested it with Windows 7/8 running all kinds of benchmarks / games without an issue.

 

How are you doing the HDMI pass-through. Do you have a video card with 2 HDMI ports, or two video cards, or something else?

[bkastner]

Do you mean "iommu as well as vt-x"? as vt-d is the intel brand name for iommu.

 

This page is a good summary - http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/VTd_HowTo - an Asus x79 board is mentioned with a  specific BIOS and controller.

 

MSI and Asus is better of late but those are of the manufacturers that you have to do some major checking and rechecking on the VT-D / AMD-V and IOMMU.

 

ASRock and Gigabyte in the past have done a much better job with their hardware and BIOs working for PCI Passthrough.

 

If you go look in the Arch / openSUSE / XenServer threads on the first page, I provide links to various places that tell you what works or not.

 

I usually rely on ASUS for all my motherboards, but for this build I went with a Xeon E3-1230 v3 and a SuperMicro X10SLH-F as it gave me all the features I wanted, including IPMI. The only downside is you seem to need ECC ram, which was a bit expensive. I figure this is the only server I am going to build this way though, and expect it to last me quite a while, so made the extra investment.

 

It would be nice if VT-d was more commonly supported.

 

Also, you likely want to check to make sure your CPU supports everything you want. I had bought a i5-4670 at Christmas on sale, but then realized it didn't support hyper-threading, so I returned it and went for the Xeon instead. Again, I don't know if hyper-threading is 100% required, but if I am doing a server build to last for a couple of years (I hope) I want to make sure I have all the bells and whistles I may want down the road.

 

[grumpybutfun]

How are you doing the HDMI pass-through. Do you have a video card with 2 HDMI ports, or two video cards, or something else?

 

Pass through each Video Card. In my case, two. Plus my server has another Video card for it which I also use as a XBMC. So a total of 3 XBMCs.

 

All using Hardware Video Acceleration on the Video Card and even with a parity check, all my other apps / "plugins" going still is 15% (or lower) CPU Utilization.

 

Johnodon, Ironic and several others also have a similar set up like mine and if you google you will see this is very common with ESXi, Xen and XenServer. The fact that one of your VMs is unRAID doesn't matter.

[johnodon]

I have had great success with HDMI over Ethernet. My Server boots up, starts 2 XBMC VMs automatically. I can play 1080p with HD Audio no problems. Also tested it with Windows 7/8 running all kinds of benchmarks / games without an issue.

 

How are you doing the HDMI pass-through. Do you have a video card with 2 HDMI ports, or two video cards, or something else?

 

I'm passing through 2 Radeon HD6450's to separate XBMCbuntu VMs.  They run flawlessly.

[grumpybutfun]

Like I said earlier...

 

Enabling Hardware Video Acceleration on the Video Card is the important thing. Otherwise your CPU is going to get hammered trying to decode the video(s).

 

Xen, ESXi and XenServer... this will not be enabled by default. You have to set up each VM to accordingly.

[johnodon]

 

[wsume99]

If you go the VM route how do you connect a remote control when the server is so far from the TV?

[grumpybutfun]

If you go the VM route how do you connect a remote control when the server is so far from the TV?

 

I use my phone / iPad for two of them.

 

The living room I have a separate CAT-5 run with a USB Hub that I passthrough for a remote / keyboard. I could do that for the others but the GF and I both just use our phones / iPads since the Apps are so slick. Automatically pauses when I get a phone call and unpauses when I am done. Text Messages pop up on the XBMCs too.

[prostuff1]

I loath remotes on phones/touch devices.  They can be convenient and I use one for XBMC every once in a while but I much much much prefer my logitech harmony remote.

[jbartlett]

Do you mean "iommu as well as vt-x"? as vt-d is the intel brand name for iommu.

 

Nope. Based on my understanding, a motherboard that supports vt-d doesn't mean it supports IOMMU. The MSI Big Bang MB supported vt-d as well as the CPU and I couldn't even get KVM under opensuse to start without warnings until vt-d was enabled on the BIOS. However, I was unable to do a PCI passthrough.

 

ETA: Unfortunately, the board mentioned is the Sabertooth which is not the same board.

[grumpybutfun]

I loath remotes on phones/touch devices.  They can be convenient and I use one for XBMC every once in a while but I much much much prefer my logitech harmony remote.

 

I use a Logitech remote in my living room using CAT-5 to USB convertor with a IR remote hooked into it.

 

If you want to use a remote, you can. If you don't, use your phone / iPAD / etc. Just letting the guy know that it works.

 

Even if you use a remote, you can still have your phone connect to your XBMC. It will show who is calling, pause XBMC, unpause when you hang up and show text messages on your XBMC when you get them automatically if you want.

 

Sorry iFollowers... Apple doesn't have an app for that. However, Android does.

[AndroidCat]

What HDMI 2 Ethernet converters do you use? Is that 100% reliable solution?

Thanks.

[johnodon]

If you go the VM route how do you connect a remote control when the server is so far from the TV?

 

I use an IR Repeater/Blaster.

[grumpybutfun]

What HDMI 2 Ethernet converters do you use? Is that 100% reliable solution?

Thanks.

 

Johnodon, Ironic (he has the ones he uses listed in his Arch thread), me and several others on here.

 

There are THOUSANDS of people who also do this in the various Virutalization / XBMC / etc. Forums on the web. Google to see for yourself.

[hernandito]

Like I said.... the Holy Grail...! OK you have to be smarter than Einstein....  I am willing to learn....  Not because it will do things better than with my 2 Zotac Atoom Ion htpcs, but because you CAN!!!  8)

[johnodon]

Actually, I just use long HDMI runs (50ft is the longest).  Picture is crystal clear.

[johnodon]

Like I said.... the Holy Grail...! OK you have to be smarter than Einstein....  I am willing to learn....  Not because it will do things better than with my 2 Zotac Atoom Ion htpcs, but because you CAN!!!  8)

 

I was in the same boat...1 ION and 1 fusion.  Both have been retired. 

 

Next is a HyperSpin VM.

[mattkhan]

Do you mean "iommu as well as vt-x"? as vt-d is the intel brand name for iommu.

 

Nope. Based on my understanding, a motherboard that supports vt-d doesn't mean it supports IOMMU. The MSI Big Bang MB supported vt-d as well as the CPU and I couldn't even get KVM under opensuse to start without warnings until vt-d was enabled on the BIOS. However, I was unable to do a PCI passthrough.

 

ETA: Unfortunately, the board mentioned is the Sabertooth which is not the same board.

Vt-d is intel's  implementation of an iommu but it does also need the right bios support. It seems mobos often fall down on the DMAR tables (DMA remapping) for one thing.

 

i.e. CPU + chipset support (vt-x, vt-d) is necessary but not sufficient for a working system.

[hernandito]

 

Vt-d is intel's  implementation of an iommu but it does also need the right bios support. It seems mobos often fall down on the DMAR tables (DMA remapping) for one thing.

 

i.e. CPU + chipset support (vt-x, vt-d) is necessary but not sufficient for a working system.

 

Hardware has been a real head scratcher for me.... based on all the discussions and all the links, I have been trying to research this. If this becomes the $25,000,000 business venture for Tom, Grumpy, Ironic, etc.; the business has to have a hardware research division where they publish currently available hardware bundles at the various prices.... the Hackintosh people publish this (that is another fun project for any geek tinkerer).

 

The head of the documentation guide division HAS to report to Grumpy!!! and Lionelhutz will be the Chief Brand Officer.... I volunteer to be in charge of the money; I have always wanted a fancy sports car.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bkastner]

I have had great success with HDMI over Ethernet. My Server boots up, starts 2 XBMC VMs automatically. I can play 1080p with HD Audio no problems. Also tested it with Windows 7/8 running all kinds of benchmarks / games without an issue.

 

How are you doing the HDMI pass-through. Do you have a video card with 2 HDMI ports, or two video cards, or something else?

 

I'm passing through 2 Radeon HD6450's to separate XBMCbuntu VMs.  They run flawlessly.

 

I've been thinking about this and have a couple of questions for those of you using centralized end points.

 

1) Have any of you seen/tried video cards with dual HDMI out? Since I am thinking that HDMI is the only option for audio/video I don't want to tie up multiple PCI-E slots with video cards if I don't have to, but I don't know if ESX/Xen etc would recognize 2 HDMI ports on a single port as discrete and send separate video signals

2) How many cables do you need to run to each end point? And are they discrete as well? I am thinking if you need to do HDMI over Ethernet, and USB over Ethernet you need 2 cables, plus if you want just straight Ethernet (i.e. you have an XBOX attached to the same TV) then you potentially need a 3rd cable. Is there any way to put a hub on both sides for each requirement, or do you need to run 3 direct cables (HDMI to HDMI, USB to USB, etc).

 

As mentioned in an earlier post I have my house cabled, but most rooms only have a single CAT6 cable and I am trying to figure out if this is doable or not.

[ironicbadger]

This may add to the confusion but wouldn't it be correct to say that by moving unraid to a mainstream up-to-date distro then you'd eliminate the need for members of the unraid community to virtualize in order to install additional functionality?

 

So then all that remains is what would be other reasons for virtualizing? I'm sure that is a huge list but I think the OP is asking for the most common. For example

pfSence VM to replace my router

 

One reason you might still want to VM is to run Windows, with GPU passthrough for native gaming. Or to have multiple XBMC instances in one machine, facilitated with GPU passthrough per XBMC instance and a cheap $30 GPU (such as the HD6450 which works great). Then as some other posters have written you could virtualize pfSense or anything other OS you flipping well want.

 

You are right that with unRAID being baked directly into a mainstream OS that the case for virtualisation seems less pointful, but infact you are mistaken . Sure the majority of people just want one box to do everything and to do that easily which a full distro enables (ie no plugins).

 

Installing sabnzbd in Arch is as easy as

 

yaourt -S sabnzbd

 

XBMC (with autostart)

pacman -S xbmc
systemctl enable xbmc

 

I mean, it's p*ss easy - even for a n00b with guides like grumpy and I write we aim to make it all as simple as possible.