[POLL] Do you want nano added to unRAID?



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The topic that never dies :)

 

No one cares if nano is added or not its a tiny package.

 

The question is why do we need a command line text editor at all in stable.... the answer is we shouldn't  so I voted as an addon.

 

The people that want to mess about with betas, dev and edge case clever stuff are quite capable of the 2 lines it needs to install it themselves :)

 

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Nas whilst I agree with your line of thinking there still are times when even the most non techy person may have to open a text file at the command line and vi I'd just plain nasty

 

So we all know nano will be added ...Its a great tool when its needed.

 

My concern is that we MUST not rely on it. unRAID needing configured via the cli is a completely different product to unRAID we have now. In almost all cases we can have a gui and not doing so is just the start of a lazy downward slope.

 

I know we are doing some pretty high end stuff now but even so we still need to aim to not require cli access just to work unraid.

 

Webotech said somewhere that some sort of php text editor could be used and that combined with some sort of trivial versioning system i.e my.cfg and my.cfg.001 would be far better for those time we have no option.

 

But I stick by my guns, add nano but it should be for geeks and not normal users only.

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I know we are doing some pretty high end stuff now but even so we still need to aim to not require cli access just to work unraid.

 

100% agree with you!, if unraid is to cater for both geeks and n00b's then it has to have for n00b's the "click--install-configure-done" mentality for additional applications, whilst also having the ability for the geek to get down and dirty with the cli and do what is required (read xen/kvm hypervisor/docker)

 

its a difficult line to tread, i think if i were tom i would firstly get all "required" bits of a nas working out of the box in the WEBUI, for me this is:-

 

1. email notification (configurable in webui)

2. smart reporting in webui

3. pre-clear included in webui

4. ups support in webui

 

all of the above currently require you to drop to the cli and/or install 3rd party software, in my opinion none of the above should require this, until these are included in the stock unraid product your always going to get non techy people having to use telnet/ssh clients (who need a decent text editor)

 

hopefully the geeks can do the hard work, and the n00bs just end up getting what they want, click and run apps, time will tell!

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My concern is that we MUST not rely on it. unRAID needing configured via the cli is a completely different product to unRAID we have now. In almost all cases we can have a gui and not doing so is just the start of a lazy downward slope.

 

I know we are doing some pretty high end stuff now but even so we still need to aim to not require cli access just to work unraid.

 

But I stick by my guns, add nano but it should be for geeks and not normal users only.

 

Using your same logic...

 

We should remove / prevent users from using preclear, unmenu, fsck, compiling TV Capture Cards, etc. until a WebGUI exists for them.

 

Fsck has been around since day 1, Preclear and unmenu have been around since 2008. By 2021 we probably will have some WebGUIs / plugins that work for those. Hell.... Tom should set a password and prevent anyone from dropping to Kernel to edit / customize their system they purchased to their liking.

 

Doing all of that will make everyone happy, positive feedback about unRAID here and other places will increase by 10 fold and I'm sure Sales will increase year over year by a factor of 37.4% (at a minimum).

 

It isn't 2006, with the advances in Hardware, Software (Sickbeard, sabNZBd, etc.), Virtualization... New / Existing customers want to utilize the other 95% of their Servers capability and be more than just a NAS.

 

I keep asking and you continue to ignore... When are YOU going to start developing these WebGUIs that you demand / insist upon? Have YOU started on the WebGUI text editor? Have YOU started on the Xen / VM one?

 

Since we / Tom do not compensate Plugin Developers for a tremendous amount of work they do to develop / maintain plugins... Is it any wonder that they disappeared and new Plugins are not developed? Simply Features and Boxcar developers both burned out... How much longer till the Dynamix developer burns out too? At one point Speeding Ant (Simply Features Developer) once had preclear status show up in the WebGUI and the preclear guy FREAKED OUT and demanded he take it out immediately (which Speeding Ant did).

 

Instead of losing your mind over nano (534kb) and thinking it is the end of the world... Go bust the preclear guy balls until he develops a WebGUI or create your own and deal with his wrath.

 

Knowing the above...

 

It's best Tom give us easy tools like nano, preclear, unmenu, compiling kernels for TV Turner Cards, etc. so we can keep unRAID relevent / competitive with other competing products and adding / keeping nano (534kb) in unRAID 6.0 is a good way to do that.

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Evidence of previous breaks in the design isnt justification for future ones.

 

I say again i don't care about nano. I do care about the upswell in assuming people are comfortable using it and our seeming blazaness to alienating a % of the userbase because of it.

 

We are not going to agree on this.

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Evidence of previous breaks in the design isnt justification for future ones.

 

I say again i don't care about nano. I do care about the upswell in assuming people are comfortable using it and our seeming blazaness to alienating a % of the userbase because of it.

 

We are not going to agree on this.

 

My preference is the same as yours... WebGUIs / Plugins that work 100% of the time and do not crash the server.

 

Reality... Neither exist today and there isn't anyone interested or volunteering to write / develop the WebGUIs and Plugins we will need.

 

I'm willing to chip in some money to see if we can get this done. Are you? If so, how much are willing to donate?

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Evidence of previous breaks in the design isnt justification for future ones.

 

I say again i don't care about nano. I do care about the upswell in assuming people are comfortable using it and our seeming blazaness to alienating a % of the userbase because of it.

 

We are not going to agree on this.

 

There aren't any examples of previous breaks in the design. Everything mentioned was a user addition, not a LimeTech addition to unRAID.

 

And I agree with what you posted. If unRAID is to be a NAS appliance OS with add-on capability then it needs to support point and click type add-ons. Otherise, it's still the same OS  that justs adds the ability for advanced users that can build and run VM's. Many people who have no problem using the comand line just never uderstand how there are other people who would not use it.

 

One funny thing I find is the rhetoric about how the plug-in designers have all got tired and left and that VM's fix every problem. However, the same happens with everythimg freely supported. People advance or support something for a while and then they move on. People will create a VM and then move-on leaving it for someone else to pick-up and update. People who write VM guides will move on leaving the guide hanging when a future OS update breaks it. Then, someone else will have to pick it up and update it. Others always seem to step-up, same as others have stepped-up and fixed the older plug-ins. VM's can make it easier to run an add-on program, but only if it's easy for the average user to run and manage the VM. The average user is the one who wants to use unRAID as an appliance and many have little more then point and click or drag and drop upgrade/addition capabilities. If unRAID wants to really use VM's to give the average user extra capabilities then there needs to be full VM capabilites with no command line work needed and the capability needs to be created and supported through LimeTech, not as a user plugin.

 

As for the poll itself - I think it's useless...

 

And as for posting crap comments about Joe L. - I fully expect him to be around long after anyone posting crap about him dissappears and even if he dissappeared tomorrow it would take many years before anyone else ever provides as much unRAID support as he has during his time here. The made-up stories are rather funny. The issue was that the pre-clear script was modified without asking and instead of asking and going forward working together the GUI project was dropped.

 

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If unRAID wants to really use VM's to give the average user extra capabilities then there needs to be full VM capabilites with no command line work needed and the capability needs to be created and supported through LimeTech, not as a user plugin.

 

I agree. Hopefully in time either Tom or a user develops a Plugin or WebGUI that is point and click.

 

As for the poll itself - I think it's useless...

 

You are right. Tom has said he adding it in the next release.

 

And as for posting crap comments about Joe L. - I fully expect him to be around long after anyone posting crap about him dissappears and even if he dissappeared tomorrow it would take many years before anyone else ever provides as much unRAID support as he has during his time here. The made-up stories are rather funny. The issue was that the pre-clear script was modified without asking and instead of asking and going forward working together the GUI project was dropped.

 

1. Nobody said crap comments about Joe.

 

2. Joe did get pissed, he demanded the guy remove it from his GUI all of those are true / facts.

 

3. Neither Speeding Ant or Joe was bad just a difference of opinion.

 

4. Preclear is open source. If Speeding Ant or I want to take to preclear, use it as in another product, modify it, add it to a GUI for unRAID or FreeNAS...  Anyone can do it and there is NOTHING wrong with it.

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I didn't post anything about licensing, but the code has neither an open source license nor any copyrighted note in it. The problem involved co-ordination as much as the use of the code. The code was forked and still calling the same name with only a rev bump. That screwed the original author over since his same named code and revision order was now messed up and he would also be looked to for supporting that forked code since he is the creator and supporter of the code with that name.

 

Assuming it is open source, there are still good reasons why someone forking a piece of open source software creates a new name and new development location with a new revision code. None of that was done in this preclear case.

 

 

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I didn't post anything about licensing, but the code has neither an open source license nor any copyrighted note in it. The problem involved co-ordination as much as the use of the code. The code was forked and still calling the same name with only a rev bump. That screwed the original author over since his same named code and revision order was now messed up and he would also be looked to for supporting that forked code since he is the creator and supporter of the code with that name.

 

Assuming it is open source, there are still good reasons why someone forking a piece of open source software creates a new name and new development location with a new revision code. None of that was done in this preclear case.

 

Believe it or not, we actually agree on something. Informative and good post.

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I'm confused as to why "as a plugin" is an option? Nano a native package. Anyone can install it and place it in /boot/extra.

 

I agree.

 

Nano as a plugin is crazy considering the size of it, what it is and pretty much any documentation / blogs / guides a Linux noob will see on the Web will use nano over VIM.

 

Personally... I am not writing a guide or posting a VM Appliance until the next beta (which will have nano in it). Like it or not, for users to do a lot of the Xen / VM Appliance stuff it requires editing some cfg files.

 

If that isn't isn't hard enough... Imagine writing a guide and having to explain to a novice how to use VIM on top of that...

 

Hit "a", then add what you want, hit "esc" and move there to delete, hit "d", then "del" until it's gone, then hit "esc", then ":", then "w" and then "q", etc.

 

Screw that noise!

 

The dorks that get off on VIM can continue to use it and impress their dork friends on how "cool" they are. The rest of us will use nano.

 

Bigger picture: I'd much rather see a progression towards modularity than an appeal to have packages added to the core.

 

What were you thinking? Any ideas / suggestions on how to do this?

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