Does anyone have a clear picture of Windows 7+ licensing with respect to visualization.

 

I know I can buy a non OEM license and everything is OK, but i need a few copies and the cost is out of my budget.

 

I also know i can buy a never used OEM legitimate disk from one of many resellers and install it. My belief is that this is technically against the EULA but everyone looks the other way as the spirit of it is good enough.

 

But the kicker is in the past I have seen visualization updates, the virtual hardware itself, causing the OEM to fail and require re-activation. I want these machines to run from now ideally to EOL for Windows so that not ideal.

 

Thoughts in general about the whole area? I expect over the years this will be a popular question?

How many do you need?

Volume licensing may be an option.

Also is this a production or commercial use?

For testing you can get an MSDN subscription that has product licenses.

 

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I have seen visualization updates, the virtual hardware itself, causing the OEM to fail and require re-activation.

 

I presume you mean "virtualization updates".    At least with VMware products, I've not seen any issue when updating VMware Workstation versions PROVIDING you don't update the virtualized hardware of the virtual machine (which is NOT necessary).  You can safely update VMware Tools, but don't change the baseline virtual hardware, and there won't be any activation issues -- I've confirmed this with XP, Vista, '7, and '8.

 

And you can MOVE the virtual machines between physical systems with no problem as well.  If you COPY them, then VMware will change the underlying SID so it appears to be a different system, and will likely require re-activation.    So be sure to answer the question correctly when you first start the VM on your new hardware [i.e. "Did you Move or Copy this machine?"]

 

Yes i mean the virtulaisation hardware itself which is usually, but not always, an optional upgrade.

 

Using vmware as an example I have seen updating vmware itself cause windows licensing to need reactivating (specifically not updating the vmware hardware version). I have also seen it happen when you move VMs from one phsycal machine to another. It is much more obvious when you have no direct internet access as every attempt fails.

 

My concern is that as we potentially move away from vmware more unknowns get introduced into the equation and that is what I am trying to quantify.

 

MSDN is a possibilty but I dont really want to be limited by a more restrictive license what I can do on the machines i.e. home/work.

 

 

I dont want to get too complicated with this either so the topic is useful for more than my specific example. If someone wants to run windows virtually on unRAID and they buy an OEM disc (which is 95% of whats on sale unless you really pay attention) or they convert physical to virtual, where do they stand?

 

I think it is a grey area and likely they could be calling M$ up later to make windows work again... and perhaps one day they will say no?

While I've moved a LOT of VM's between different physical machines, I've NEVER had a re-activation issue as long as I answered "I Moved It" to the question VMware asks when you first run the VM.  And that's across some pretty disparate hardware -- all the way from P-IV's to Core i7's, and with XP, Vista (all versions), '7 (all versions), and '8 Pro.

 

But I agree it's a grey area, and different folks could indeed get different responses from Microsoft if they have to call in for activation.  I'm also not sure if Xen retains all the same hardware characteristics across platforms as VMware does ... so moving a system from one physical machine to another could potentially induce the re-activation requirement for all activation-sensitive OS's in any VM's.

 

Not sure there's really a good answer except to note that you DO need a valid license to install an OS in a VM ... and when you "need a few copies" that simply means you need a few licenses.    If you have some older no-longer-in-use licenses, they will PROBABLY activate okay, but the only way to know for sure is try it.

 

While I've moved a LOT of VM's between different physical machines, I've NEVER had a re-activation issue as long as I answered "I Moved It" to the question VMware asks when you first run the VM.  And that's across some pretty disparate hardware -- all the way from P-IV's to Core i7's, and with XP, Vista (all versions), '7 (all versions), and '8 Pro.

 

Unfortunately my experience is almost the same as your but not an exact match. To be fair though I have been almost fully virtualised for years now and work with banks of hundreds of visualized windows servers regularly so its probably as function of volume and different environments and use cases.

 

I'm also not sure if Xen retains all the same hardware characteristics across platforms as VMware does ... so moving a system from one physical machine to another could potentially induce the re-activation requirement for all activation-sensitive OS's in any VM's.

 

Nail on head. We need to get  a handle on this or unRAID updates could cause windows users real issues. It is not our job to fix the issue but it should be to present the risks.

 

Not sure there's really a good answer except to note that you DO need a valid license to install an OS in a VM ... and when you "need a few copies" that simply means you need a few licenses.   

Yes I should hope that goes without saying. Irony is that people that dont pay have no issues with this lol

I have used Acronis True Image in the VM to make an Image on one ESXi server.  Then on another ESXi box I restored the image and the disk signature in True Image.  I didn't have to reactivate Windows 7 x64 when I did the disk signature restore even though it was on a completely separate ESXi box.  The VMs were setup with identical configurations (memory, chipset, network and # of cores) but the PCIe devices passed through were different.  The MBs on the ESXi servers were identical (Tyan S5512GM2NR) as were the CPUs E3-1230 V1.  I have had to reactivate when transferring but I didn't use the disk signature restore so I'm giving that the credit.

After much reading it is pretty much this simple.

 

If you want to run windows in unRAID/Xen you need either:

 

A full non OEM variant license

Never update unRAID ever again if using OEM

Run the risk that activation will fail randomly and without notice some time in the future with no legal means to reactivate other than paying for a full license via the phone.

 

Interesting back reading:

 

http://www.licenturion.com/xp/fully-licensed-wpa.txt

https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22653&start=75

 

The method windows uses to detect if you need to activate due to hardware changes is even more complex now it seems hence the above recommendation.

 

Useless

I moved and oem license from one laptop to another (one died and i had an acronis image restored to different hardware.)

I had to use phone activation a couple times for some reason (which is all automated) and its been fine for almost a year now.

So OEM should be fine (no idea if allowed my MS)

 

 

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Never update unRAID ever again if using OEM

Run the risk that activation will fail randomly and without notice some time in the future with no legal means to reactivate other than paying for a full license via the phone.

 

having rung Microsoft dozens of times to reactivate after motherboard replacements / P2V / V2V  etc (10 years into computer tech) I've never been told no once, on the off-chance you actually get transferred to someone just explaining the situation "i formatted" "replaced motherboard" they always activate, basically windows 7 allows you 3 activation until phone which is automated 90% of the time

 

 

edit: sometimes they do get you to read the product ID off your licence although that was more for the windows xp sp1 keys that didnt work after sp3

 

 

editedit: and yeah technically you need one retail key per virtualised instance (or one data-center licence per VM Host) but imho you're fine with OEM (as they never could come to a conclusion exactly what allows it to be an OEM install, one stick of ram or a keyboard or what last i heard)

If you're given the option to not register your key, don't until you've installed the Xen drivers and any other drivers needed. Windows 8 doesn't give you the option to wait (that I've seen) and I had to re-authenticate after I installed the Xen drivers.

 

I have Windows Home Server 2011 arriving tomorrow, will be installing that in Xen.

If you're given the option to not register your key, don't until you've installed the Xen drivers and any other drivers needed. Windows 8 doesn't give you the option to wait (that I've seen) and I had to authenticate after I installed the Xen drivers.

 

I have Windows Home Server 2011 arriving tomorrow, will be installing that in Xen.

I have WHS2011 installed in unRAID Xen VM currently.  Have about 14 days left to activate it.  So at least with that you get an option.