All valid, but you are neglecting the market out there.

 

Who is unRAID competing against ?  QNAP ?  Synology ?

 

If your focus is tech savvy users then yes, VMs are porbably the way to go.  But if your market is the ever growing SOHO user then you need to compete in a field where one-click plugins and packages rule the roost.

 

Maybe Docker is a halfway house that will cater for both, but my concern is that Tom is focusing on keeping his current techy user base content, those whose money he already has, rather than targetting the segment that will generate far more revenue.

 

The more revenue for Tom, the more chance unRAID remains Tom's #1 priority.

 

 

How about VM's Beeing "1Click" installs ? like plugins and packages ?

 

As long it's a one click then it's perfect.  But can preconfigured VMs really be "one-click" solutions with all the varieties of HW out there ?  That's why I thought Docker might be a better alternative.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-VM and given the time and to play with I'll head down that path, but I'm worried Tom is making the wrong people happy first

All valid, but you are neglecting the market out there.

 

Who is unRAID competing against ?  QNAP ?  Synology ?

 

If your focus is tech savvy users then yes, VMs are porbably the way to go.  But if your market is the ever growing SOHO user then you need to compete in a field where one-click plugins and packages rule the roost.

 

Maybe Docker is a halfway house that will cater for both, but my concern is that Tom is focusing on keeping his current techy user base content, those whose money he already has, rather than targetting the segment that will generate far more revenue.

 

The more revenue for Tom, the more chance unRAID remains Tom's #1 priority.

 

 

How about VM's Beeing "1Click" installs ? like plugins and packages ?

 

As long it's a one click then it's perfect.  But can preconfigured VMs really be "one-click" solutions with all the varieties of HW out there ?  That's why I thought Docker might be a better alternative.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-VM and given the time and to play with I'll head down that path, but I'm worried Tom is making the wrong people happy first

 

 

well most stuff can be situational, i.e. how much mem to give a certain vm. but most appliances can be 1 clicks given equal effort. (Plugins requires custom dependencies that can break each other, constant maintance etc) in other words i can create a "appliance VM(e.g LAMP)" in approx. 1h, how fast can we make that same plugin ? (which might break next unraid version).

 

Bottom line. VM's or appliances is Easier to facilitate than a custom style plugins. both vms and plugins depends on a community effort. (More of us knows how to write Appliances) But Both should be supported going on forward (IMHO)

All valid, but you are neglecting the market out there.

 

Who is unRAID competing against ?  QNAP ?  Synology ?

 

If your focus is tech savvy users then yes, VMs are porbably the way to go.  But if your market is the ever growing SOHO user then you need to compete in a field where one-click plugins and packages rule the roost.

 

Maybe Docker is a halfway house that will cater for both, but my concern is that Tom is focusing on keeping his current techy user base content, those whose money he already has, rather than targetting the segment that will generate far more revenue.

 

The more revenue for Tom, the more chance unRAID remains Tom's #1 priority.

 

 

How about VM's Beeing "1Click" installs ? like plugins and packages ?

 

As long it's a one click then it's perfect.  But can preconfigured VMs really be "one-click" solutions with all the varieties of HW out there ?  That's why I thought Docker might be a better alternative.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-VM and given the time and to play with I'll head down that path, but I'm worried Tom is making the wrong people happy first

 

 

well most stuff can be situational, i.e. how much mem to give a certain vm. but most appliances can be 1 clicks given equal effort. (Plugins requires custom dependencies that can break each other, constant maintance etc) in other words i can create a "appliance VM(e.g LAMP)" in approx. 1h, how fast can we make that same plugin ? (which might break next unraid version).

 

Bottom line. VM's or appliances is Easier to facilitate than a custom style plugins. both vms and plugins depends on a community effort. (More of us knows how to write Appliances) But Both should be supported going on forward (IMHO)

 

Not to mention less proprietary! My dissertation at Uni is actually on Linux as a standardised development platform for students ie - if they sign up for a particular class all they have to do to get the required software is run a script (or click a gui button or whatever that just runs said script). One click installs aren't far behind getting something like this up and running (my dissertation is based on Antergos which itself is based on Arch, obviously as it's my fav).

 

I'm imagining continuing to work with Tom going forward to make my already popular ArchVM image even smaller and available as a button inside the unRAID GUI or something. Once you've got Arch installed (which is really just extracting a premade img anyway) from there you would be given the IP of the Arch install. You tap that into a browser and you're presented with a pretty webpage that looks like an App Store which uses my unraid repository to host the packages required so that users never have to compile anything themselves. That uglyness (for the mainstream at least) is left to me and others that volunteer their time.

 

By abstracting plugins from the host we increase stability and compatibility. Just look at Plex. There is no official unRAID Plex package but it goes hand in hand with a media server. People use computers to accomplish tasks. If we can demonstrate that unRAID can run Plex whether it's in a VM or a container (like Docker) then that column is ticked for most people - techy or not. So, from a users perspective they wouldn't care that it's downloading an ArchVM, unpacking it and then presenting them with a webpage. There is no perceptible difference to running Plex in a VM to running it 'bare metal' in terms of performance. Hell, I just bought a new CPU - a Celeron G1820T no less - and it can cope with 2 full blu ray transcodes simultaneously in a VM. My i5 can do lots more than that before it chokes up.

 

The other thing to remember is that Synology and QNAP are enormous companies that have huge marketing budgets. I've never seen unRAID advertised ANYWHERE. QNAP sponsor crappy shows like geekbeat as they have the target market for such devices. IMHO, for unRAID to be taken seriously it's these sorts of marketing gimmicks that need to happen.

 

That said v6 is still in BETA and is not feature complete. I cannot see Tom not including a VM management GUI to take this more mainstream (something like phpVirtualbox). He's making the right noises with the hires he's made and I think focusing on the VM aspect is absolutely the right way to go.

 

Dalben, I didn't see you present an alternative? UnRAID v5 is a one click style plugin system, and for many reasons this is not perfect. Dependencies for each plugin interfere with one another because Slackware wasn't designed with package management. The easiest way to fix this is not to move unRAID to a different OS necessarily (although that would be one option), it is to implement VMs. I reckon, until you've tried it - you're not fully qualified to make a judgement call.

 

Wow, I rambled on a lot just then. Phew!

Dalben, I didn't see you present an alternative?

Could have sworn I mentioned Docker more than once.  I must be mistaken.

 

I reckon, until you've tried it - you're not fully qualified to make a judgement call.

Seriously ? Please let me know what else I shouldn't make a call about. 

 

Now, if you take a step off that high horse of yours and look at what I wrote, my comments were on the ease of the average non-techy user to add value to his unRAID.  When ionix asked if a 1 click VM would suffice, I agreed wholeheartedly.

 

Too many times I've seen technically brilliant solutions fall by the wayside simply because it's not what the masses wanted.  It's even worse thses days as there are far more choices than there ever was before. 

 

My aim here is simple.  I want unRAID to be as profitable as possible for Tom so that he keeps developing it.  Whether my one-click install is a VM, Pluug-in, Docker or a sprinkle of fairy dust really doesn't matter.  It's making sure the solution is what people want.

Dalben, I didn't see you present an alternative?

Could have sworn I mentioned Docker more than once.  I must be mistaken.

 

I reckon, until you've tried it - you're not fully qualified to make a judgement call.

Seriously ? Please let me know what else I shouldn't make a call about. 

 

Now, if you take a step off that high horse of yours and look at what I wrote, my comments were on the ease of the average non-techy user to add value to his unRAID.  When ionix asked if a 1 click VM would suffice, I agreed wholeheartedly.

 

Too many times I've seen technically brilliant solutions fall by the wayside simply because it's not what the masses wanted.  It's even worse thses days as there are far more choices than there ever was before. 

 

My aim here is simple.  I want unRAID to be as profitable as possible for Tom so that he keeps developing it.  Whether my one-click install is a VM, Pluug-in, Docker or a sprinkle of fairy dust really doesn't matter.  It's making sure the solution is what people want.

 

I think maybe you misinterpreted my tone of voice. I meant no umbridge to be taken with my words, simply to discuss the topic. Apologies if it came across that way!

 

And yes, you are correct. The best technical solution rarely wins with the masses.

 

I'm imagining continuing to work with Tom going forward to make my already popular ArchVM image even smaller and available as a button inside the unRAID GUI or something. Once you've got Arch installed (which is really just extracting a premade img anyway) from there you would be given the IP of the Arch install. You tap that into a browser and you're presented with a pretty webpage that looks like an App Store which uses my unraid repository to host the packages required so that users never have to compile anything themselves. That uglyness (for the mainstream at least) is left to me and others that volunteer their time.

 

That's a pretty awesome vision!  I really hope you and Tom can get there. 

 

I'm imagining continuing to work with Tom going forward to make my already popular ArchVM image even smaller and available as a button inside the unRAID GUI or something. Once you've got Arch installed (which is really just extracting a premade img anyway) from there you would be given the IP of the Arch install. You tap that into a browser and you're presented with a pretty webpage that looks like an App Store which uses my unraid repository to host the packages required so that users never have to compile anything themselves. That uglyness (for the mainstream at least) is left to me and others that volunteer their time.

 

That's a pretty awesome vision!  I really hope you and Tom can get there.

 

yes best of luck to you

Based on my experience with dealing with "Users", anything to make it simple is good. One click is ideal but alternately maybe a quiz of sorts which asks them how much memory they want to assign, how many CPU's, with full explanations as to the pros & cons of assigning too much or too little.

 

Empower the user while minimizing the chances of them shooting themselves in the foot. They're still going to shoot their feet off but there will be fewer people in the ER missing feet.

Based on my experience with dealing with "Users", anything to make it simple is good. One click is ideal but alternately maybe a quiz of sorts which asks them how much memory they want to assign, how many CPU's, with full explanations as to the pros & cons of assigning too much or too little.

 

Empower the user while minimizing the chances of them shooting themselves in the foot. They're still going to shoot their feet off but there will be fewer people in the ER missing feet.

 

I'm also working with Lonix to do exactly this and develop really tight integration with his BUUX script. It's early days yet but once done, will be slick as hell.

I'm also working with Lonix to do exactly this and develop really tight integration with his BUUX script. It's early days yet but once done, will be slick as hell.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the fruits of this labor.  I hope I'll have my VM's all up and running and to have learned a lot by the time it happens though.  I enjoy learning, even if I want to punch stuff along the way

Final internal testing on beta 6b occurring today!  Stay tuned!

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

One-click VM installs would be really nice for OS's without licensing issues; but won't work for Windows VM's unless the VM is unactivated and you include instructions for changing the key.  A simple "few-click" wizard to create a new VM with a specified amount of RAM, # of CPU's, etc. would be nice for those who are new to virtualization -- to the point where all they have to do is "boot" the install CD/DVD/ISO-image and let the OS install run normally.

 

Final internal testing on beta 6b occurring today!  Stay tuned!

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

Cool   I guess i'll upgrade soon to this new beta !

We are targeting a release of an updated beta and kernel for next week...

 

We also ran into a critical bug issue with the 3.14.4 Linux kernel and Xen network driver.  Crashes the VIF and there is no workaround at this time.  The updated Linux kernel + Xen 4.4 release will be next week, but instead of 3.14.4, it will be 3.12.20.

 

Final internal testing on beta 6b occurring today!  Stay tuned!

 

Any luck, or progress reports?

 

I'm about to create a new VM to hopefully resolve some permissions issues I'm having, and am sort of waiting for the new XEN to be sure that I'm using the 'latest and greatest' available.

 

if it's still going to be a few days, I'll move forward now, but if you feel like it's a matter of hours, I'll continue waiting.

 

either way, thanks again for keeping us in the loop.  I know that your updates to schedules and plans are always tentative, and subject to change/getting pushed back, but I (we) still appreciate any insight you're willing to offer!

We are targeting a release of an updated beta and kernel for next week...

 

We also ran into a critical bug issue with the 3.14.4 Linux kernel and Xen network driver.  Crashes the VIF and there is no workaround at this time.  The updated Linux kernel + Xen 4.4 release will be next week, but instead of 3.14.4, it will be 3.12.20.

 

Final internal testing on beta 6b occurring today!  Stay tuned!

 

Any luck, or progress reports?

 

I'm about to create a new VM to hopefully resolve some permissions issues I'm having, and am sort of waiting for the new XEN to be sure that I'm using the 'latest and greatest' available.

 

if it's still going to be a few days, I'll move forward now, but if you feel like it's a matter of hours, I'll continue waiting.

 

either way, thanks again for keeping us in the loop.  I know that your updates to schedules and plans are always tentative, and subject to change/getting pushed back, but I (we) still appreciate any insight you're willing to offer!

 

I can't say if its hours, but by end of day tomorrow, I'm about 90% confident.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

sounds very reasonable.  Thank you again for the update!

We are targeting a release of an updated beta and kernel for next week...

 

We also ran into a critical bug issue with the 3.14.4 Linux kernel and Xen network driver.  Crashes the VIF and there is no workaround at this time.  The updated Linux kernel + Xen 4.4 release will be next week, but instead of 3.14.4, it will be 3.12.20.

 

Final internal testing on beta 6b occurring today!  Stay tuned!

 

Any luck, or progress reports?

 

I'm about to create a new VM to hopefully resolve some permissions issues I'm having, and am sort of waiting for the new XEN to be sure that I'm using the 'latest and greatest' available.

 

if it's still going to be a few days, I'll move forward now, but if you feel like it's a matter of hours, I'll continue waiting.

 

either way, thanks again for keeping us in the loop.  I know that your updates to schedules and plans are always tentative, and subject to change/getting pushed back, but I (we) still appreciate any insight you're willing to offer!

 

I can't say if its hours, but by end of day tomorrow, I'm about 90% confident.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

any updates?

Sorry guys. Was out sick on Friday. Will be back in on Monday and get the release out.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

Sorry guys. Was out sick on Friday. Will be back in on Monday and get the release out.

 

Will this version allow the array to be stopped (from emhttp) when a VM has shares open?

Sorry guys. Was out sick on Friday. Will be back in on Monday and get the release out.

 

Will this version allow the array to be stopped (from emhttp) when a VM has shares open?

 

Doubt it given how unraid (and filesystems in general) work.

Sorry guys. Was out sick on Friday. Will be back in on Monday and get the release out.

 

Will this version allow the array to be stopped (from emhttp) when a VM has shares open?

 

Doubt it given how unraid (and filesystems in general) work.

 

In my experience, the array won't allow me to shut it down until I spin down the VMS I have.  We haven't changed this in the next beta.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

So what happend to beta6 ?

 

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So what happend to beta6 ?

 

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Bacon.

Bacon.

Whaaaat!?

No coffee?

 

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Bacon.

Whaaaat!?

No coffee?

 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

Not if i have to choose.