Hardware compatibility troubles


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Hello.

I am encountering endless issues with selecting a compatible SATA controller. Motherboard installed is a Biostar Hi-Fi A85W FM2 AMD 85X and the onboard SATA ports work just fine. However each and every SATA card I've attempted has been returned in frustration.

 

I've tried:

- HighPoint RocketRAID 2680SGL

- Syba SI-PEX40071

- SuperMicro AOC-SAS2LP-MV8

 

I should’ve taken better notes along the way, but here’re the basics of it. The HighPoint isn’t on the list at http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hardware_Compatibility#PCI_SATA_Controllers and so when it seemingly did not recognize any installed disks, I chalked it up to complete incompatibility and moved along to the Syba, which is listed as “Works straight out of the box” on the aforelinked compatibility list. Well, it didn’t. Work straight out of the box, that is. As far’s I could tell it did nothing but add a new screen during the boot process.

 

I’ve most recently attempted the SuperMicro card. On the compatibility list it says “should work out of the box but there were some issues” so I read through the linked thread (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=29052.0) where it was suggested to flash the card’s firmware. First I tried the card as it arrived, to see if it did just so happen to work out of the box. It didn’t. No sweat, as the firmware flashing procedure is very quick and straightforward. So I flashed the card with the new firmware following the procedure on that thread with which others had reported success.

 

But no dice. I am still seeing the card’s screen during boot up, and it is still reporting “No Physical Disk!” I’ve attempted moving it to a different PCI slot, using a different SAS cable, different hard disks, different backplane in the case. Nothing seems to work. I’ve got a 24-bay server case, but cannot seem to utilize any more disks than the onboard SATA ports will address.

 

Does anyone have any suggestion? I have 16 more drives to connect. PCIe is preferred, and SATA II or III are both acceptable. Or, better yet, any tips on how to get the SuperMicro card to recognize the physical disks attached to it!

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If you're seeing "No Physical Disk!" being reported by the SuperMicro card, then your issue has nothing to due with incompatibilities with unRaid (and I can swear that the card in question is compatible).

 

You issue is either cabling or power or backplane.

 

I assume that you are using appropriate SAS cabling for the type of backplane which your case requires.

 

But, since the SYBA card uses 8 SATA cables, it looks to me like its a power issue or a backplane issue.

 

What hardware are you exactly trying to use?  MB, P/S, Case, Cabling?

 

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If you're seeing "No Physical Disk!" being reported by the SuperMicro card, then your issue has nothing to due with incompatibilities with unRaid (and I can swear that the card in question is compatible).

 

That's good logic, Squid. Thanks for laying it down so I could follow it. :) Also I appreciate your assurance that this SuperMicro card does work.

 

You issue is either cabling or power or backplane.

 

I assume that you are using appropriate SAS cabling for the type of backplane which your case requires.

 

But, since the SYBA card uses 8 SATA cables, it looks to me like its a power issue or a backplane issue.

 

What hardware are you exactly trying to use?  MB, P/S, Case, Cabling?

 

 

Motherboard: Biostar Hi-Fi A85W FM2 AMD 85X

Power Supply: Corsair CX750M

Case: Norco RPC-4224

Cabling: Norco C-SFF8087-D

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I don't have a Norco case, but from what I understand you should only be using one of the molex power connectors on each backplane - the 2nd is for a redundant power supply.

 

P/S looks ok.

 

Do the drives which you've got hooked up to the m/b sata ports work ok?

 

I would try and diagnose whether the backplane is defective or not.  try moving a single drive from bay to bay in the case while that backplane is connected to the sata ports.  Try and use a crappy drive if you've got one around.  (24 power cycles)

 

I've heard horror stories about some of norco's quality control

 

 

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Other than picking up one breakout cable just to test the SAS2LP by connecting it directly to a drive for testing to isolate the problem to the case/cabling, I have no other suggestions.

 

One other thing,  when you do get it working, you need to cycle a drive through every slot to make sure its good.  I did it with my SS-500s and found one dead slot on a brand new cage.

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Switchman makes a good point. I have the same Norco case and 2 of the AOC-SAS2LP cards (works great for UnRAID). It also looks like the correct cable (I have 4 of them, 2 from each SAS2LP cards to the backplanes on the Norco case). I also have a similar psu but it's the AX instead of CX - though both are single rail and shouldn't pose an issue.

 

I can tell you that when I first got my Norco-4224 I had two backplanes that were faulty. I took 4 drives (just dummy drives as they were handy) and tested each 4 ports on a backplane and checked that all 24 were good. As mentioned, two of the backplanes had issues, and Norco replaced them for me.

 

If you only have a single 8087 to 8087 cable then that would be suspect if you can't get any drives recognized on any of the backplanes.

 

Since you have a multitude of drives you want to add, I would test each backplane, one at a time, with 4 drives. Just power up and see what you see. I would also do this test with power to only the one backplane you are testing (I suggest you take out the fan wall just behind the drives. I scraped my knuckles pretty good trying to get things plugged into/out of the tight spaces).

 

Also, if it's easy enough to get I would get a forward breakout cable. That way you can skip the backplanes entirely (if you are not getting any response) and just hook up drives to the AOC-SAS2LP.

 

Your hardware should definitely work, so it's a matter of figuring out which piece is failing you at the moment.

 

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Y'all are on to something here. :)

 

Thanks for the mention of a forward-breakout cable. I discovered that I have one on-hand, and so was able to verify that the card does detect disks. Then I started on testing each backplane and its four slots. I found the same results with my Norco 8087-8087 cable as the Monoprice brand cable.

 

Looks like I've got some bad backplanes. Most of them, actually. Only one has all four slots functioning.

 

Row0: OOOO

Row1: OOOX

Row2: OXOX

Row3: OOOX

Row4: OOOX

Row5: XOOO

 

One of these non-working backplanes is a replacement of a physically (could tell by looking at it) -damaged piece, which also gave Xs across the row. Here's hoping they're up for sending five more replacements. Maybe they'll test them first this time? I have one other Norco-bound unRAID server (it's in a RPC-4220) and have had no issues whatsoever with any parts on that one.

 

In the meantime, is it advisable to connect disks to the slots which _are_ working? unRAID handles disk placement not by physical connection but by disk identification, so I assume that rearranging them as I replace backplanes with fully-functioning units shouldn't be a problem.

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Yes, you should be fine.

 

One other suggestion - depending on where you purchased the Norco-4224 from you may want to look into a replacement. I actually did an advanced RMA on mine, and tested the backplanes from both to make sure I had 6 good ones in the case I kept, and sent the iffy ones back as part of the RMA. I still have the 2 replacement backplanes from Norco in the shipped container. I now have them "just in case" down the road.

 

Even without an advanced RMA it looks like you got a severely faulty case. Norco QA is not what it used to be, and if you search through the forums for the 4224 you will see a mixed bag of results. Some get great cases, and some end up with utter crap.

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Even without an advanced RMA it looks like you got a severely faulty case. Norco QA is not what it used to be, and if you search through the forums for the 4224 you will see a mixed bag of results. Some get great cases, and some end up with utter crap.

 

From NORCO:

 

"Hello,

 

It is impossible there are so many defective backplanes in one case.

 

Do you use power splitter cable in your system? What's the model number of your controller card, power supply, hard drives?"

 

I'll look into your suggestion re: RMA through the merchant. However, that merchant was Newegg and it seems that Newegg, Norco, Rosewill, et al are all under the same umbrella. I'd imagine I'll be paying for the replacement backplanes out-of-pocket.

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Even without an advanced RMA it looks like you got a severely faulty case. Norco QA is not what it used to be, and if you search through the forums for the 4224 you will see a mixed bag of results. Some get great cases, and some end up with utter crap.

 

From NORCO:

 

"Hello,

 

It is impossible there are so many defective backplanes in one case.

 

Do you use power splitter cable in your system? What's the model number of your controller card, power supply, hard drives?"

 

I'll look into your suggestion re: RMA through the merchant. However, that merchant was Newegg and it seems that Newegg, Norco, Rosewill, et al are all under the same umbrella. I'd imagine I'll be paying for the replacement backplanes out-of-pocket.

 

Newegg should be willing to RMA it, if not you could potentially order a new one, and then return the original for a refund (again, I would try and have both for a day or two to mix and match backplanes). You may get stuck with restocking fees this way vs the RMA which would be free.

 

Norco does have a point about this being an exceptionally bad case. When you did your backplane testing were you only plugging power into one backplane at a time along with the SATA controller? If so, and you are running directly from the power supply then the splitter question should be easy to address as a non-issue.

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Newegg should be willing to RMA it, if not you could potentially order a new one, and then return the original for a refund (again, I would try and have both for a day or two to mix and match backplanes). You may get stuck with restocking fees this way vs the RMA which would be free.

 

Norco does have a point about this being an exceptionally bad case. When you did your backplane testing were you only plugging power into one backplane at a time along with the SATA controller? If so, and you are running directly from the power supply then the splitter question should be easy to address as a non-issue.

 

Newegg says the case is ineligible for a replacement RMA since it was purchased more than 30 days ago (been getting pieces for this build slowly, as I can afford them). So your second suggestion may be the way to go. A restocking fee (plus shipping the beast back to them, I'd imagine) will probably be cheaper than buying this many new backplanes. I think I recall them being in the $50-$55/apiece area.

 

Yes, when I tested the backplanes each backplane was powered independently for its respective test. So while testing the first backplane, it was the only component - aside from motherboard and SATA controller - with any power to it and the only component connected to the SATA controller. And then, the second backplane was, and so on. Directly from the power supply, with no splitters. Also, a question has been raised in regards to the backplanes' dual power connectors, and whether I was connecting power to both or just one. The backplanes included with my case don't support PSU redundancy, having only one power connector per backplane.

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That is unfortunate about the RMA. I am not sure how far out of the 30 days you are, but you could always try and escalate and fight, but the other option is to just hope for a second, better case. At least if you still don't get 6 good backplanes from the second case you can RMA it and get a third. :) Hopefully between 3 you should be laughing (though hopefully it won't come to that).

 

It sucks you got such a lemon. I had heard the Norco cases were luck of the draw, and I was disappointed in 2 bad backplanes, but yours is definitely worse.

 

Good luck and hope you get everything resolved.

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Newegg is pretty strict on the 30-day requirement.  In fact, they require that they RECEIVE a defective part within 30 days ... not just that you've shipped it (although they do make exceptions for that specific case with a bit of escalation).

 

I'd escalate your dialog with Norco, and include the details you've provided here -- independent power for each backplane under test and NO other backplanes powered at the same time;  cables that you've verified are good with direct connections to your drives; etc.    While they aren't likely to simply send you 5 new backplanes, I'd certainly think they'll exchange yours for better-tested ones (although you'll likely need to send yours in first).

 

I learned my lesson about Newegg's 30-day policy several years ago ... in fact, I no longer ask for replacements for defective items -- I return them and re-purchase them, since the 30-day window is NOT extended by a replacement shipment [e.g. if you get a defective item ... say a disk drive ... and return it for a replacement, and find out the replacement is also bad ... that drive has to be returned within the 30-day window as well => depending on the shipment times involved; and just how quickly you isolated the issue to that product, that can make it VERY tight to meet the 30 day requirement.    But if you simply return the defective item and re-purchase it, the 30-day windows for the 2nd product starts when you ordered it.]

 

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