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Popular Applications in unRAID 6

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I take it since you are now advertising user created plugins as official features of unraid, you are going to create a list of limetech vetted, approved, and supported add on's? Or are you going to bring all those plugins into the official distribution and maintain them internally?

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I take it since you are now advertising user created plugins as official features of unraid, you are going to create a list of limetech vetted, approved, and supported add on's? Or are you going to bring all those plugins into the official distribution and maintain them internally?

 

Well we never said that these applications were official features of unRAID in that post.  These are popular applications people use on unRAID through our Extensions, but we give credit to each user in that post for their work.

 

The lime tech list of supported functionality is the base OS itself.  If we add additional things to that, you'll see it on the roadmap...

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I am not sure the opening analogy of:

 

"Think of extensions in the same way you would a file extension in any popular program, for instance, Adobe Photoshop:  there are BMPs, JPEGs, PNGs, TIFFs, etc.  Each of those are just different ways to store and manage the content inside them."

 

adds any clarity. In fact I think it is perhaps confusing.

 

The problem is we dont consistently use the terms extension, apps, addon and plugins and with docker and KVM it gets even more confusing.

 

I like the idea of the post but I think it has highlighted some terms we needs to formalize and document (version specific).

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I am not sure the opening analogy of:

 

"Think of extensions in the same way you would a file extension in any popular program, for instance, Adobe Photoshop:  there are BMPs, JPEGs, PNGs, TIFFs, etc.  Each of those are just different ways to store and manage the content inside them."

 

adds any clarity. In fact I think it is perhaps confusing.

 

So I get why it seems confusing, but to be fair NAS, you're not the intended audience for the blog post.  The blog's intended audience is really new visitors that are just trying to grasp the concepts of unRAID 6.  In the previous blog post to this one, we touched on this concept of Extensions as well.

 

If you notice, the majority of this blog post isn't about the concept of unRAID Extensions, but really just highlighting some specific apps that users can run on unRAID.

 

The problem is we dont consistently use the terms extension, apps, addon and plugins and with docker and KVM it gets even more confusing.

 

I like the idea of the post but I think it has highlighted some terms we needs to formalize and document (version specific).

 

Extensions are described in the first blog post as follows:

 

  • Plugins enhance core functionality.
  • Docker Containers allow users to run powerful applications.
  • Virtual machines enable new use-cases for unRAID.

 

Our view is that Plugins should be limited to things that belong running on the core OS.  OwnCloud, Plex, and Crashplan are good examples of things that belong as containers, not Plugins.  OpenVPN, however, has a good reason to belong as a part of the core OS itself given it's function and purpose.  That said, there is a possibility that it COULD be a container in the future, but no need to fix something that isn't broken right now.

 

Now as for Virtual Machines, other than running a non-Linux OS or doing PCI device pass through, can you name an instance where a VM would be more fitting for an application than a Docker Container?  I'm not saying there aren't any, I'm saying that it will be a very small list.

 

The tempting debate to get into are the technical merits of Linux Containers vs. KVM / Xen hypervisors, but let's not get into the weeds on that.  Instead, focus on the most important things:  transparency and ease of use.  Docker containers are easier to get started for a user than a VM.  Containers are also transparent in that you can see what went into their builds prior to even downloading them.  VMs require the user to either inherently trust the source or examine the VM itself in great depth to ensure its "trustworthy" before first use.  There is no "Dockerfile" equivalent in VMs that provides that transparency to the user.

 

As for "add-ons", that concept is dying with unRAID 6.  Can someone make a script for unRAID 6?  Sure they can, we don't stop that, but we won't officially endorse anything that requires the user to drop to command line in order to use it.  Everything should be controllable through the webGui in unRAID 6.  A webGui control for an add-on is really then a Plugin.

 

Tom is working on more formal documentation for extensions and how to develop them.

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You seem to have a clear picture in your head I am just saying however on paper it just doesn't actually read that way. If you require people to read other blog posts to understand the terminology then you need to cite that and not assume people understand your definitions that are very specific to unRAID. Example, just look at how much was needed to be written here to explain more and thats to an audience that knows the product already.

 

Also devils advocate:

 

Plugins enhance core functionality.

 

From an end user consuming the functionality point of view so do containers and VMs. This is not a good stand alone definition.

 

Docker Containers allow users to run powerful applications.

 

Again from a end users point of view there is no difference in consuming an app as an addon, container or vm. The only difference is the installation procedure the net efect is the same.

 

Virtual machines enable new use-cases for unRAID.

 

Agree

 

Anyways I read it, it was confusing, I posted here about it. Take it or leave it I personally understand the differences :)

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So I get why it seems confusing, but to be fair NAS, you're not the intended audience for the blog post.  The blog's intended audience is really new visitors that are just trying to grasp the concepts of unRAID 6.  In the previous blog post to this one, we touched on this concept of Extensions as well.

 

If you notice, the majority of this blog post isn't about the concept of unRAID Extensions, but really just highlighting some specific apps that users can run on unRAID.

 

The problem is we dont consistently use the terms extension, apps, addon and plugins and with docker and KVM it gets even more confusing.

 

I like the idea of the post but I think it has highlighted some terms we needs to formalize and document (version specific).

 

Extensions are described in the first blog post as follows:

 

  • Plugins enhance core functionality.
  • Docker Containers allow users to run powerful applications.
  • Virtual machines enable new use-cases for unRAID.

 

Our view is that Plugins should be limited to things that belong running on the core OS.  OwnCloud, Plex, and Crashplan are good examples of things that belong as containers, not Plugins.  OpenVPN, however, has a good reason to belong as a part of the core OS itself given it's function and purpose.  That said, there is a possibility that it COULD be a container in the future, but no need to fix something that isn't broken right now.

 

Now as for Virtual Machines, other than running a non-Linux OS or doing PCI device pass through, can you name an instance where a VM would be more fitting for an application than a Docker Container?  I'm not saying there aren't any, I'm saying that it will be a very small list.

 

The tempting debate to get into are the technical merits of Linux Containers vs. KVM / Xen hypervisors, but let's not get into the weeds on that.  Instead, focus on the most important things:  transparency and ease of use.  Docker containers are easier to get started for a user than a VM.  Containers are also transparent in that you can see what went into their builds prior to even downloading them.  VMs require the user to either inherently trust the source or examine the VM itself in great depth to ensure its "trustworthy" before first use.  There is no "Dockerfile" equivalent in VMs that provides that transparency to the user.

 

As for "add-ons", that concept is dying with unRAID 6.  Can someone make a script for unRAID 6?  Sure they can, we don't stop that, but we won't officially endorse anything that requires the user to drop to command line in order to use it.  Everything should be controllable through the webGui in unRAID 6.  A webGui control for an add-on is really then a Plugin.

 

Tom is working on more formal documentation for extensions and how to develop them.

 

Really ?

 

Consider me a new user who visits all the sites trying to get a grasp on what Unraid is all about and how I can use it. Personally in many aspects Lime is missing the target for the typical user. I would estimate that the real target is a user who is looking for a dependable and secure storage unit and file server for media. Unraid hits the mark in some ways and misses by a mile in many others. The concept of parity is great for ensuring what you have on the server can be replaced easily in most cases.Where Unraid misses is where is the easy GUI backup ? All the different torrent varieties and other superfluous addons don't require a dedicated unraid server. And even when an added feature is supplied the casual user is buried in hundreds of old irrelevant versions, plugins etc to the point where odds are the wrong version will be installed. Ask a new user to do a simple task like removing a hard drive without breaking parity or plugging in an external USB drive. Cannot be done without having a background in Linux or programming.  The common Unraid user has to spend hours wading through forum posts and making tough decisions, using command line and hoping they have the right version.

Myself I have destroyed my system twice now trying get some basic programs running for backup and using external drives. Why can't Lime provide the nuts and bolts to be done easily with out the user having a IT background or coding experience ? I know I would buy another machine in a minute if I could back one to the other nightly. Why do I have to spend hours transferring files using a desktop and Windows Explorer ? The most basic of jobs.

Want to sell more Unraid  licenses and servers ?

Market to the core users and stick to it. I know it's a rant. But Unraid is so close to being the answer.

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So I get why it seems confusing, but to be fair NAS, you're not the intended audience for the blog post.  The blog's intended audience is really new visitors that are just trying to grasp the concepts of unRAID 6.  In the previous blog post to this one, we touched on this concept of Extensions as well.

 

If you notice, the majority of this blog post isn't about the concept of unRAID Extensions, but really just highlighting some specific apps that users can run on unRAID.

 

The problem is we dont consistently use the terms extension, apps, addon and plugins and with docker and KVM it gets even more confusing.

 

I like the idea of the post but I think it has highlighted some terms we needs to formalize and document (version specific).

 

Extensions are described in the first blog post as follows:

 

  • Plugins enhance core functionality.
  • Docker Containers allow users to run powerful applications.
  • Virtual machines enable new use-cases for unRAID.

 

Our view is that Plugins should be limited to things that belong running on the core OS.  OwnCloud, Plex, and Crashplan are good examples of things that belong as containers, not Plugins.  OpenVPN, however, has a good reason to belong as a part of the core OS itself given it's function and purpose.  That said, there is a possibility that it COULD be a container in the future, but no need to fix something that isn't broken right now.

 

Now as for Virtual Machines, other than running a non-Linux OS or doing PCI device pass through, can you name an instance where a VM would be more fitting for an application than a Docker Container?  I'm not saying there aren't any, I'm saying that it will be a very small list.

 

The tempting debate to get into are the technical merits of Linux Containers vs. KVM / Xen hypervisors, but let's not get into the weeds on that.  Instead, focus on the most important things:  transparency and ease of use.  Docker containers are easier to get started for a user than a VM.  Containers are also transparent in that you can see what went into their builds prior to even downloading them.  VMs require the user to either inherently trust the source or examine the VM itself in great depth to ensure its "trustworthy" before first use.  There is no "Dockerfile" equivalent in VMs that provides that transparency to the user.

 

As for "add-ons", that concept is dying with unRAID 6.  Can someone make a script for unRAID 6?  Sure they can, we don't stop that, but we won't officially endorse anything that requires the user to drop to command line in order to use it.  Everything should be controllable through the webGui in unRAID 6.  A webGui control for an add-on is really then a Plugin.

 

Tom is working on more formal documentation for extensions and how to develop them.

 

Really ?

 

Consider me a new user who visits all the sites trying to get a grasp on what Unraid is all about and how I can use it. Personally in many aspects Lime is missing the target for the typical user. I would estimate that the real target is a user who is looking for a dependable and secure storage unit and file server for media. Unraid hits the mark in some ways and misses by a mile in many others. The concept of parity is great for ensuring what you have on the server can be replaced easily in most cases.Where Unraid misses is where is the easy GUI backup ? All the different torrent varieties and other superfluous addons don't require a dedicated unraid server. And even when an added feature is supplied the casual user is buried in hundreds of old irrelevant versions, plugins etc to the point where odds are the wrong version will be installed. Ask a new user to do a simple task like removing a hard drive without breaking parity or plugging in an external USB drive. Cannot be done without having a background in Linux or programming.  The common Unraid user has to spend hours wading through forum posts and making tough decisions, using command line and hoping they have the right version.

Myself I have destroyed my system twice now trying get some basic programs running for backup and using external drives. Why can't Lime provide the nuts and bolts to be done easily with out the user having a IT background or coding experience ? I know I would buy another machine in a minute if I could back one to the other nightly. Why do I have to spend hours transferring files using a desktop and Windows Explorer ? The most basic of jobs.

Want to sell more Unraid  licenses and servers ?

Market to the core users and stick to it. I know it's a rant. But Unraid is so close to being the answer.

 

Stew,

 

Thanks for your feedback.  We really do appreciate it.  I'm a little lost on exactly what issues you have, so maybe you could help clarify.  At first it seems like you chastise us for not sticking to the basics, but then bring up plugin version problems.  That said, I see that you also have been using Docker and it's Containers in your other posts.  I also think to state that replacing a hard drive from a server requires Linux programming knowledge is a little unfair, no?

 

Now as far as using some programs and external drives for backup and blowing up your system twice...  What happened?!

 

I think the big thing you want is the ability to have one unRAID system replicate to another unRAID system as a native feature of the OS.  If this is something you'd like to see, I encourage you to post a feature request on the Roadmap forum as no one else has asked for that just yet.  Sounds like a good idea and something we'd consider!

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You seem to have a clear picture in your head I am just saying however on paper it just doesn't actually read that way. If you require people to read other blog posts to understand the terminology then you need to cite that and not assume people understand your definitions that are very specific to unRAID. Example, just look at how much was needed to be written here to explain more and thats to an audience that knows the product already.

 

Also devils advocate:

 

Plugins enhance core functionality.

 

From an end user consuming the functionality point of view so do containers and VMs. This is not a good stand alone definition.

 

Docker Containers allow users to run powerful applications.

 

Again from a end users point of view there is no difference in consuming an app as an addon, container or vm. The only difference is the installation procedure the net efect is the same.

 

Virtual machines enable new use-cases for unRAID.

 

Agree

 

Anyways I read it, it was confusing, I posted here about it. Take it or leave it I personally understand the differences :)

 

These blog posts are not meant to be the final statement on things.  The ultimate goal is to unify the various types of "extensions" into a unified "App" model.  However there are important and practical differences between Plugins, Containers, and Virtual Machines, which unfortunately the end user must have at least some cursory understanding for now.  Here are some reasons why:

 

- The various components and control "managers" are still in their infancy in unRaid.  That is, we are just now really starting to get a good handle on how to install and manage these extensions and how they fit into the overall unRaid architecture.  And there is still a great deal of work to be done in this area.

 

- Some types of "Apps" have actual hardware dependencies.  For example, if someone wants to run an "OpenElect" App, they have to have a processor/motherboard with the proper virtualization technology, as well as have a compatible GPU installed.  The whole area of "GPU passthrough" is still a rapidly evolving technology with linux and not everything is easy or smooth (yet).

 

- There are security concerns.  Do you know where your extension came from?  Do you trust it?  What makes you think you can trust it?  Docker has plans to set up a trust system - one of their founders started VeriSign (now you know how they plan to make $$).

 

What I'm trying to say is that we are learning as we go along.  The product will evolve and hopefully most of this terminology will be unnecessary.  At present our target market is still the "technically savvy" end user.  It's not quite ready to be packaged up and sold in a cardboard box at Best Buy or Fry's.  But trust me, we're trying!

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If you require people to read other blog posts to understand the terminology then you need to cite that and not assume people understand your definitions that are very specific to unRAID.

 

FYI, re-reading this tonight, this is definitely true.  I should add that to the blog post.  Thanks NAS.

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I'm running a mail server on my system - my own dovecot plugin, together with my mpop plugin to fetch mail from my isp.

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If you require people to read other blog posts to understand the terminology then you need to cite that and not assume people understand your definitions that are very specific to unRAID.

 

FYI, re-reading this tonight, this is definitely true.  I should add that to the blog post.  Thanks NAS.

 

No problems at all. There is bound to be turmoil considering how much is changing in unRAID.

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I think the most significant change you need in the blog is a clear DISCLAIMER at the start of the post.

 

i.e. where you say "One of the most powerful features of unRAID 6 comes in the form of application support through what we call unRAID Extensions", you should add a sentence that makes it very clear that these are NOT supported by LimeTech, but are user-contributed add-ons that many find useful enhancements to their systems.

 

 

 

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I think the big thing you want is the ability to have one unRAID system replicate to another unRAID system as a native feature of the OS.  If this is something you'd like to see, I encourage you to post a feature request on the Roadmap forum as no one else has asked for that just yet.  Sounds like a good idea and something we'd consider!

 

Actually it is already in feature request section. 

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

 

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I think the big thing you want is the ability to have one unRAID system replicate to another unRAID system as a native feature of the OS.  If this is something you'd like to see, I encourage you to post a feature request on the Roadmap forum as no one else has asked for that just yet.  Sounds like a good idea and something we'd consider!

 

 

 

Actually it is already in feature request section. 

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

Stew,

 

Thanks for your feedback.  We really do appreciate it.  I'm a little lost on exactly what issues you have, so maybe you could help clarify.  At first it seems like you chastise us for not sticking to the basics, but then bring up plugin version problems.  That said, I see that you also have been using Docker and it's Containers in your other posts.  I also think to state that replacing a hard drive from a server requires Linux programming knowledge is a little unfair, no?

 

Now as far as using some programs and external drives for backup and blowing up your system twice...  What happened?!

 

I think the big thing you want is the ability to have one unRAID system replicate to another unRAID system as a native feature of the OS.  If this is something you'd like to see, I encourage you to post a feature request on the Roadmap forum as no one else has asked for that just yet.  Sounds like a good idea and something we'd consider!

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I think the big thing you want is the ability to have one unRAID system replicate to another unRAID system as a native feature of the OS.  If this is something you'd like to see, I encourage you to post a feature request on the Roadmap forum as no one else has asked for that just yet.  Sounds like a good idea and something we'd consider!

 

Actually it is already in feature request section. 

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

Um, where.  I don't see it.

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I think the big thing you want is the ability to have one unRAID system replicate to another unRAID system as a native feature of the OS.  If this is something you'd like to see, I encourage you to post a feature request on the Roadmap forum as no one else has asked for that just yet.  Sounds like a good idea and something we'd consider!

 

Actually it is already in feature request section. 

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

Um, where.  I don't see it.

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=34773.0

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

 

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I think the big thing you want is the ability to have one unRAID system replicate to another unRAID system as a native feature of the OS.  If this is something you'd like to see, I encourage you to post a feature request on the Roadmap forum as no one else has asked for that just yet.  Sounds like a good idea and something we'd consider!

 

Actually it is already in feature request section. 

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

Um, where.  I don't see it.

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=34773.0

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

Can't believe I couldn't find that.  I even looked at that thread.  Must be going cross eyed.  I even replied to that thread before.  ::)

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I even replied to that thread before.  ::)

 

Some of us have an excuse for those kind of memory lapses (we're "senior citizens") ... but you don't !!  :) :)

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I agree on the comment on the last page about backups.  It should be absolutely dead-simple to attach a USB drive and copy an UnRAID folder on to it.  I don't need to sync multiple servers together or anything, I just want to make sure that a single folder gets backed up every night.  Right now that is not an easy task.

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