Gaming virtualization?

[talueng]

Is it possible and does it make sense at all to virtualize games?

 

I'm asking because I want to play games on my HTPC but would have to add a gaming dGPU, replace my PicoPSU with a 450 W PSU and possibly replace my i3 with an i5. At the same time I'm planing to build an unraid server and have to buy hardware for it which (at least if I want virtualization capabilities) seems to be powerful enough for playing games (except the dGPU) so I thought I can save some money by only having one powerful machine and let everything run on that machine.

[archedraft]

It is possible to play games on a virtual machine. I have a windows 8 VM setup with a Nvidia 8800 GT graphics card. I have been able to play older games (as should be expected with such an older card).

[razmajazz]

You could create a Windows VM on the unRAID server and pass through your video card. Install Steam on the VM and use Steam In-Home Streaming to play games on any computer in the house http://store.steampowered.com/streaming/. This is supposed to work even for non-Steam purchased games.

[Manticore]

You could create a Windows VM on the unRAID server and pass through your video card. Install Steam on the VM and use Steam In-Home Streaming to play games on any computer in the house http://store.steampowered.com/streaming/. This is supposed to work even for non-Steam purchased games.

 

Thats really cool. Im looking forward to messing around with it and seeing how good the graphics will look on my macbook air 

 

Id still prefer not to have to buy a windows license just to use steam. Hopefully all new AAA games coming out will be Steam OS friendly. Its good the see the new batman game is going to be on it though. A sign of good to things to come.

 

Where would/do people store their games they download from Steam or GOG or wherever?

The Witcher3 for example is probably going to be a 35 GB download, so I couldn't  keep more than 3/4 of games this size on my 250 GB ssd cache.

 

I was thinking of getting a 2/3 TB SSHD and keeping them there. It would also be good to back up my cache of course 

 

Any better suggestions?

 

[jonp]

You could create a Windows VM on the unRAID server and pass through your video card. Install Steam on the VM and use Steam In-Home Streaming to play games on any computer in the house http://store.steampowered.com/streaming/. This is supposed to work even for non-Steam purchased games.

 

Thats really cool. Im looking forward to messing around with it and seeing how good the graphics will look on my macbook air 

 

Id still prefer not to have to buy a windows license just to use steam. Hopefully all new AAA games coming out will be Steam OS friendly. Its good the see the new batman game is going to be on it though. A sign of good to things to come.

 

Where would/do people store their games they download from Steam or GOG or wherever?

The Witcher3 for example is probably going to be a 35 GB download, so I couldn't  keep more than 3/4 of games this size on my 250 GB ssd cache.

 

I was thinking of getting a 2/3 TB SSHD and keeping them there. It would also be good to back up my cache of course 

 

Any better suggestions?

Mwah hah ha ha!  I have something extra special in store for solving this dilemma!  Still a WIP, but I'll give you a hint through a riddle:

 

How would windows as a VM on unraid know any better if a game was living in the cache or the array?

[razmajazz]

Thats really cool. Im looking forward to messing around with it and seeing how good the graphics will look on my macbook air 

 

Or this November buy a $50 Steam Link and play on your TV... http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380

[jonp]

Thats really cool. Im looking forward to messing around with it and seeing how good the graphics will look on my macbook air 

 

Or this November buy a $50 Steam Link and play on your TV... http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380

Yeah, I'm really excited to try that out as well!

[Manticore]

Or this November buy a $50 Steam Link and play on your TV... http://store.steampowered.com/app/353380

 

Resolution: Supports 1080p at 60 FPS

 

Thats no good for me. Its 4k of nothing these days 

 

I really cant wait to see what you have waiting for us Jonp. Its always good.

 

If I decided to put in a second cache drive and use it for my games do you think there would be much difference between

using one of my trusty WD Green drives or a new SSHD. TBH I would prefer not to spend the money on a new drive

if the performance is going to be marginally better. ie slightly faster load times in games

 

How would windows as a VM on unraid know any better if a game was living in the cache or the array?

 

Its too early in the morning for riddles for me. I havent even had my coffee yet. Is it ok to have games on the array so?.

I thought that would be a big no no.

 

[meep]

I'm not a gamer by any stretch of the imagination but I have loaded up Steam on an ArchLinux VM under KVM.

 

The VM has two cores assigned (AMD FX8320 @ 3.5GHz, 8GB RAM assigned and a HD54xx GOPU passed through). I've set Steam up to store games to a folder on my unRAID array.

 

Playing Cities Skylines, I find it slow and laggy. I suspect it's mainly down to the GPU and am considering a significant upgrade to see if that improves things.

 

I alo note that since moving from Xen to KVM, video performance on the same hardware has deteriorated considerably - for example EMBY playback of 1080P files not judders and stutters under Win 8.1 / KVM whereas the exact same VM under Xen, it was silky smooth.

 

I'll try a different GPU and report back. Any recommendations for a quiet, mid-level GPU that would work well under Linux for Steam?

 

Peter

 

[jonp]

I'm not a gamer by any stretch of the imagination but I have loaded up Steam on an ArchLinux VM under KVM.

 

The VM has two cores assigned (AMD FX8320 @ 3.5GHz, 8GB RAM assigned and a HD54xx GOPU passed through). I've set Steam up to store games to a folder on my unRAID array.

 

Playing Cities Skylines, I find it slow and laggy. I suspect it's mainly down to the GPU and am considering a significant upgrade to see if that improves things.

 

I alo note that since moving from Xen to KVM, video performance on the same hardware has deteriorated considerably - for example EMBY playback of 1080P files not judders and stutters under Win 8.1 / KVM whereas the exact same VM under Xen, it was silky smooth.

 

I'll try a different GPU and report back. Any recommendations for a quiet, mid-level GPU that would work well under Linux for Steam?

 

Peter

Nvidia cards seem to perform better at this point. GTX 750 is a nice mid level card and it's not a giant noisemaker like the 780 or 980.  I am a little surprised that you are seeing a GPU performance drop in switching from Xen to KVM, especially for just playing video content in a Windows VM.  I have an AMD HD 5450 and several others that seem fine for me unless the content is mpeg4 on OpenELEC. Still looking into that issue, but for Windows guests, that's very surprising.

[meep]

 

Nvidia cards seem to perform better at this point. GTX 750 is a nice mid level card and it's not a giant noisemaker like the 780 or 980.  I am a little surprised that you are seeing a GPU performance drop in switching from Xen to KVM, especially for just playing video content in a Windows VM.  I have an AMD HD 5450 and several others that seem fine for me unless the content is mpeg4 on OpenELEC. Still looking into that issue, but for Windows guests, that's very surprising.

 

Thanks Jon

 

I need to do some more testing - it's just I'm seeing issues in EMBY which I didn't observe in the same VM in Xen. I've subsequently updated video drivers etc. I note VERY high CPU usage when running video - up to 100% sometimes.

 

I installed KODI and played the same file with no problems.  This points to the fault being software related but given nothing changed, there must be some hardware/passthrough related issue underpinning it :-(

 

Although related to a different VM, I'll keep an eye out for a GTX750 and report back as to whether it improves playability in cities skylines (which is in danger of making up all my spare time at the expense of unRAID tinkering!).

 

P

 

[jonp]

I haven't had the chance to play skylines yet but desperately want to.  That said, I recently tested dying light on both SteamOS and windows and can say that generally speaking, it still seems as though Microsoft directx is offering a performance improvement over the OpenGL that Linux uses. I would expect this to get better over time.

[meep]

I haven't had the chance to play skylines yet but desperately want to. 

 

Prepare to lose days!

 

I was a BIG fan of SimCity in the 90s and so wanted to like the latest version but was quite disappointed. In many ways, Skylines is what that game should have been - expansive territories and straightforward gameplay. Plus I can play it on Linux which is nice.

 

Also really really wanted to like Elite Dangerous as that's the game that caused me to get into programming and subsequently technology but once I'd played it for 10 mins I realised my piloting skills were nowhere near good enough. I'll have to stick to moulding cities and civilisations to my every whim.

 

P

 

 

[jonp]

I was same as you with SimCity. They were actually pretty close to getting it right, but between their online only requirement (which they later retracted) and very limiting gameplay and dependency on DLC, it didn't have that same SimCity feel from what I remember back in the day.

 

Now you got me itching to pull the trigger on skylines.

[Poprin]

If I could wade in here with my opinion and would also welcome input from anyone else.

 

I moved away from unraid last year because I wanted to make more use of my server hardware and due to limited time to learn how to use Linux at an advanced level I decided to setup a windows server. I had snapRAID, Plex, owncloud, utorrent client and handbrake installed so it did all of the donkey work and was always on. However the release of unraid 6 peaked my interest and I have setup a test server. I must say I am VERY impressed so far and I am looking to potentially move back to unraid.

 

What I was particularly excited about was the prospect of consolidating some hardware and having my primary gaming machine running as a VM alongside all the above applications. That way I could also take advantage of Steam home streaming and stream to my HTPC in the lounge (which I already do but would be nice to have an always on resource).

 

However, so far I have encountered some stumbling blocks to having a pure gaming machine as a VM. I've managed to successfully configure pass through for my GPU, sound card, mouse, keyboard and 360 game pad. However, I find that if the machine is under significant load the mouse can sometimes lag on input which is a big no no if I'm playing something like DOTA. Also you can not 'hot plug' the 360 game pad and need to leave it plugged in permanently in order for it to be passed the VM which isn't really ideal... not to mention the fact I can't seem to figure out how to hot plug any USB drives which I tend to use for Steam backups and swapping installations round. It shows massive potential but at the moment I'm not sure I can sacrifice the usability of my existing game machine. Unless anyone else has had more success than I?

[saarg]

You should be able to hotplug you devices if you pass through an entire usb controller. If you Google "pass through usb controller unraid" you should find archdrafts guide. At least I think it was him.

 

Edit: Here is the link for the guide http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=36768.0

[Poprin]

saarg thank you for the link and archedraft thank you for the guide at the other end of the link. I've got this working and so far it appears to have eliminated the lag from the mouse and I can now also 'hotplug' my 360 controller into my machine and VM picks it up.

 

Some more testing required but I think this could well and truly work as a fully fledged gaming machine on top of unRAID. Excellent stuff.

[saarg]

saarg thank you for the link and archedraft thank you for the guide at the other end of the link. I've got this working and so far it appears to have eliminated the lag from the mouse and I can now also 'hotplug' my 360 controller into my machine and VM picks it up.

 

Some more testing required but I think this could well and truly work as a fully fledged gaming machine on top of unRAID. Excellent stuff.

Nice to hear you got the problems sorted 

[archedraft]

You should be able to hotplug you devices if you pass through an entire usb controller. If you Google "pass through usb controller unraid" you should find archdrafts guide. At least I think it was him.

 

Edit: Here is the link for the guide http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=36768.0

 

Sweet, number one on google search!  and more impressively number 6 on google if you type "mac os x kvm". It crazy the amount of traffic that guide gets (yeah I like watching how many people access the site a day... leave me alone) 

[saarg]

You should be able to hotplug you devices if you pass through an entire usb controller. If you Google "pass through usb controller unraid" you should find archdrafts guide. At least I think it was him.

 

Edit: Here is the link for the guide http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=36768.0

 

Sweet, number one on google search!  and more impressively number 6 on google if you type "mac os x kvm". It crazy the amount of traffic that guide gets (yeah I like watching how many people access the site a day... leave me alone) 

Lol! I don't know how many times I googled it instead of just bookmarking the thread, but I'll continue to do it so you can see the counter fly 

Thank you for a great guide