Do you use spin up groups?


jonp

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It's not useful just with certain controllers. It's also useful if you use a single PC to access multiple things on the server at the same time. A PC using SMB makes a single connection to the server. So, the whole network connection hangs while the PC waits for a drive to spin up, even if the hard drive controllers in unRAID can keep responding. If you're playing a video on one monitor and try to access any other file using the second monitor you could get a pause.

 

Of course, this means the spin-up group could include all disks if you truly had a need to fix this SMB issue.

 

The original intent was for the master/slave IDE channels. But, it was found that even with controllers that didn't pause a PC would have hang-up issues if it was multitasking. In my testing, I could access spun-down drives all I wanted from another PC, but if I did it from my media PC while it was playing a video file, the video file would pause unless I used a player that could be set to use a big buffer.

 

I have no idea if NFS also has the issue, but I suspect not.

 

 

On 5/16/2017 at 8:26 PM, NAStyBox said:

Ah hah! That's the part I was missing. So if ANY disk spins up it could disrupt things like a video feed on ANY OTHER disk.

So I run Windows Media Center serving up to 7 extenders at one time. That could be a problem with WMC because every live feed buffers to disk. It doesn't like hiccups like that. Enabling it now. THANKS!

 

If your PC is using SMB and WMC requests a file that is on a disk which takes time to respond then all network traffic pauses until the disk is spun up and the file is made available. This being an issue or not is something you'd have to test, unless you don't use SMB as the connection.

 

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1 hour ago, lionelhutz said:

It's not useful just with certain controllers. It's also useful if you use a single PC to access multiple things on the server at the same time. A PC using SMB makes a single connection to the server. So, the whole network connection hangs while the PC waits for a drive to spin up, even if the hard drive controllers in unRAID can keep responding. If you're playing a video on one monitor and try to access any other file using the second monitor you could get a pause.

 

Of course, this means the spin-up group could include all disks if you truly had a need to fix this SMB issue.

 

The original intent was for the master/slave IDE channels. But, it was found that even with controllers that didn't pause a PC would have hang-up issues if it was multitasking. In my testing, I could access spun-down drives all I wanted from another PC, but if I did it from my media PC while it was playing a video file, the video file would pause unless I used a player that could be set to use a big buffer.

 

I have no idea if NFS also has the issue, but I suspect not.

 

 

 

If your PC is using SMB and WMC requests a file that is on a disk which takes time to respond then all network traffic pauses until the disk is spun up and the file is made available. This being an issue or not is something you'd have to test, unless you don't use SMB as the connection.

 

Hmmm, thank you. I didn't realize that. NFS doesn't have that freeze problem I take it? I'll have to test. 

Edited by NAStyBox
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NFS won't have the freeze issue IF you're seeing it due to SMB waiting for another drive to spin up.   But if you have a controller that causes the issue while another drive on the same controller is spinning up then the network protocol in use really won't matter.

 

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3 hours ago, garycase said:

NFS won't have the freeze issue IF you're seeing it due to SMB waiting for another drive to spin up.   But if you have a controller that causes the issue while another drive on the same controller is spinning up then the network protocol in use really won't matter.

 

Thanks. I have a Dell H310, but never flashed it to IT mode. So it may see the issue, but thankfully it's easy enough to test. Turn on the tv that's 30 feet away from the rack, spin down the other shares not being used by the Windows Media Center, and then hit some files. I'll try that next week after I get the last new drive in, and the old drives out. 

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I don't use them. My unraid box only has SSD's anyway. Spinning up/down is purely a legacy function from my perspective.

 

On spinning harddisks, this is something that can be automated perfectly. Power management should be able to handle spinning disks up/down when it makes sense. There's absolutely no need for anyone to configure this manually, unless in case of a control freak. Better not clutter unraid with unneccesary functions, iyam.

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3 minutes ago, knightrider15 said:

i just personally don't see why features should be removed

I use spin up groups, but this issue was raised to see if anybody still used it.

 

If a feature has outlived its purpose, and nobody uses it, then continuing to support a feature that no one wants is a foolish use of time that could be put towards stuff people do want. I'm all for pruning useless code, it makes it easier to support the functions that people actually use.

 

This particular feature is staying put for the time being.

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I suspect that most newer controllers don't have the issue that this resolves; but for those of us who still have older systems it's a very useful feature to eliminate any "stutter" in media playback caused by another drive spinning up on the same controller as the one we're streaming from.

 

It's easy enough to avoid that -- either spin all drives up when streaming media;  or don't use the array for anything else when you're streaming ... and the issue this resolves won't ever happen.    But unless there's a good reason to eliminate the feature, I'd prefer to see it retained.

 

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I use Spin up groups with all three of my unRAID setups.

Since I mainly use external port multiplier housings for all my drives, they will all spin down in the enclosure. No need for the drive to be spinning unless I've reading from it or writing to it. Otherwise it's just producing needless heat and needlessly using power. I'm using fifty seven drives between my three unRAID setups.

 

53TB unRAID2--45TB unRAID3--35TB unRAID1a

Edited by aaronwt
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I used to use the spin up groups but then got annoyed with the fact that when I wanted to access data on the main array it would take some time for it to spin up the drives.

 

I would rather have the drives on all the time and not spin down after sometime as that way I don't loose performance.

 

Not to mention as I use Plex I don't want people waiting for the disk to spin up, search for the file and then play.

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My 2 9211-8i controllers suffer from the problem of a lag when another drive on the same controller spins up. This causes issues when we're watching one movie, but another process spins up a different drive on the same controller.

 

Any suggestions for a controller that won't exhibit this problem so I can stop using spin-up groups?

Edited by NNate
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On 1/14/2019 at 10:22 AM, NNate said:

My 2 9211-8i controllers suffer from the problem of a lag when another drive on the same controller spins up. This causes issues when we're watching one movie, but another process spins up a different drive on the same controller.

 

Any suggestions for a controller that won't exhibit this problem so I can stop using spin-up groups?

Are you using Plex?  Most clients will download X amount of time ahead to account for potential unstable connection.  For Plex I also set my transcoding to throttle at 5 minutes so enough of it is in the buffer just in case.  I have a similar controller but 4 ports and have never seen an issue.  I let all my drives spin down after inactivity and only spin up as needed.

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