jimwhite Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 The model of Ram i have doesn't appear on it, yet some really cheap/crappy Kingston ram does. Very often, ESPECIALLY with Intel branded boards, the "cheap/crappy" stuff works the best! Quote Link to comment
prostuff1 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 The model of Ram i have doesn't appear on it, yet some really cheap/crappy Kingston ram does. Very often, ESPECIALLY with Intel branded boards, the "cheap/crappy" stuff works the best! I agree with this completely. I have found that as long as you buy ram that is set to run with default voltage (1. then you are usually fine. The less fancy it is the better it usually works. With ram voltage 1.8 and CAS latency of 5 I have never had a problem. Quote Link to comment
spinbot Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 The Ram I have in now says its "2.1v" on the sticker, but the BiOS installed it as 1.8v. I've increased it with the +0.3v option, however should I let the Bios do what it wants and put it back down to 1.8v ? Quote Link to comment
prostuff1 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 The Ram I have in now says its "2.1v" on the sticker, but the BiOS installed it as 1.8v. I've increased it with the +0.3v option, however should I let the Bios do what it wants and put it back down to 1.8v ? I say no. Set the ram voltage and timing (if possible) to what the manufacturer specifies. There is a reason why they spec the ram where they did and you should, if at all possible, set the BIOS to run the ram at those speeds. The only time you should deviate from the specs is when you are trying to overclock, which for the case of unRAID is not even worth it. Quote Link to comment
spinbot Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 OCZ tech just got back to me. The great thing about his response is that he is telling me to use the same memory test program as you guys use and I have been testing with all along. Here is what OCZ said: Try clearing the CMOS and then manually adjusting the memory settings in the BIOS. For this particular kit I recommend using timings of 4-4-4-15, command rate of 2t, and 2.1 volts. If the problems persist even with these settings try testing each memory stick individually with Memtest. You can download a bootable copy from http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/be_pagegen.php?id=tools. If you find errors with your memory, especially if the errors follow one particular memory stick, your memory is likely faulty and will need replacement with an RMA. I just have to figure out how to change those settings ( which there was a suggestion for earlier .. having to press something like CTRL-F1 when in the BIOS .. i will look it up again ). I'll report back later tonight to let you know how it works. Quote Link to comment
spinbot Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 OCZ gave me a bit more information: Another possibility may be that one of the DIMM slots on the board itself is faulty. Are you testing the memory individually in the same DIMM slot? If so, try installing the memory in the other DIMM slot. Does it still pass? Or does it fail now? Also, you could try boosting the northbridge voltage. Your default northbridge voltage is probably around 1.2 volts. You should be able to boost it up to about 1.4 volts safely. It will product more heat but will be within safe limits, and this may allow you to get both memory sticks working together. The first item I have already tested and excluded. The second item, I don't see anything called "northbridge voltage". As an update, with my main PC RAM ( identical ), being used in the server, it passes the memory test ( as mentioned before ) AND both drives passed pre-clear (although the Seagate likes to spit out a bunch of stuff after it tells me its passed, but if I recall correctly, I need not worry ). I've adjusted 5-5-5-15 to 4-4-4-15 and the other item mentioned by OCZ and already had my voltage changed to 2.1v. I'm going to run one cycle of the test on the ram that looks good (old ram) , then I am going to swap the new ram back in and see if the adjusted settings make a difference. If the memtest passes with the adjusted settings, I am going to run pre-clear again. Boy do I missed my 10MB hard drive when I was a kid as that sucker would run pre-clear in 1 minute Here's my last output from pre-clear on both drives: This is Seagate drive first: =========================================================================== = unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sda = cycle 1 of 1 = Disk Pre-Clear-Read completed DONE = Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes DONE = Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE = Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward. DONE = Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4 DONE = Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area DONE = Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes DONE = Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state DONE = Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning DONE = Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries DONE = Step 10 of 10 - Testing if the clear has been successful. DONE = Post-Read in progress: 99% complete. ( 1,500,291,072,000 of 1,500,300,828,160 bytes read ) 62.0 MB/s Disk Temperature: 30C, Elapsed Time: 20:39:01 =========================================================================== = unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sda = cycle 1 of 1 = Disk Pre-Clear-Read completed DONE = Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes DONE = Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE = Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward. DONE = Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4 DONE = Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area DONE = Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes DONE = Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state DONE = Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning DONE = Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries DONE = Step 10 of 10 - Testing if the clear has been successful. DONE = Disk Post-Clear-Read completed DONE Disk Temperature: 30C, Elapsed Time: 20:39:58 ============================================================================ == == Disk /dev/sda has been successfully precleared == ============================================================================ S.M.A.R.T. error count differences detected after pre-clear note, some 'raw' values may change, but not be an indication of a problem 54c54 < 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 114 099 006 Pre-fail Always - 80057441 --- > 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 102 099 006 Pre-fail Always - 5164867 58c58 < 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 060 060 030 Pre-fail Always - 1122688 --- > 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 062 060 030 Pre-fail Always - 1655136 64,66c64,66 < 189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 073 073 000 Old_age Always - 27 < 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 070 068 045 Old_age Always - 30 (Lifetime Min/Max 30/30) < 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 045 040 000 Old_age Always --- > 189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 066 066 000 Old_age Always - 34 > 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 070 067 045 Old_age Always - 30 (Lifetime Min/Max 29/33) > 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 055 040 000 Old_age Always 70,72c70,72 < 240 Head_Flying_Hours 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 199295072469042 < 241 Unknown_Attribute 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 1213618071 < 242 Unknown_Attribute 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 16487113 --- > 240 Head_Flying_Hours 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 121676423495751 > 241 Unknown_Attribute 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 3161535917 > 242 Unknown_Attribute 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 4278945910 ============================================================================ root@Tower:/boot# The WD Drive second: Disk Temperature: 27C, Elapsed Time: 22:33:36 =========================================================================== = unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sdb = cycle 1 of 1 = Disk Pre-Clear-Read completed DONE = Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes DONE = Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE = Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward. DONE = Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4 DONE = Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area DONE = Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes DONE = Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state DONE = Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning DONE = Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries DONE = Step 10 of 10 - Testing if the clear has been successful. DONE = Post-Read in progress: 99% complete. ( 1,500,291,072,000 of 1,500,301,910,016 bytes read ) 43.7 MB/s Disk Temperature: 27C, Elapsed Time: 22:34:47 =========================================================================== = unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sdb = cycle 1 of 1 = Disk Pre-Clear-Read completed DONE = Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes DONE = Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE = Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward. DONE = Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4 DONE = Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area DONE = Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes DONE = Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state DONE = Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning DONE = Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries DONE = Step 10 of 10 - Testing if the clear has been successful. DONE = Disk Post-Clear-Read completed DONE Disk Temperature: 26C, Elapsed Time: 22:35:56 ============================================================================ == == Disk /dev/sdb has been successfully precleared == ============================================================================ S.M.A.R.T. error count differences detected after pre-clear note, some 'raw' values may change, but not be an indication of a problem 63c63 < 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 49 --- > 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 51 ============================================================================ Quote Link to comment
Kaygee Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I've adjusted 5-5-5-15 to 4-4-4-15 and the other item mentioned by OCZ and already had my voltage changed to 2.1v. You need to set the memory to DDR400 as well if it isnt already. I wouldn't expect this to make the RAM work, if anything it should be worse, since the RAM is now working harder/faster. I'd go the other way and slow the RAM down, 6-6-6-16 is what I'd set. This is the timing for the Kingston CL6 memory memory express says works with your board. I personally would ask for an RMA, rather than change NB voltage. I think you have been very patient and jumped through enough hoops to warrant an RMA. Especially since you have two sticks of the same RAM that does work, at this point I would have RMA'd the RAM. Quote Link to comment
spinbot Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 I have come to the same conclusion. I am not expert, but I can follow directions better than the average person. I can't imagine 99% of my clients even going into the computers Bios. I've re-inserted my ram that I know that works into the server and its ran the memory test for the past 8 hours/15 passes with no errors. I'm going to leave that Ram in it as my drives pre-cleared with it ok. The new RAM, i've emailed OCZ for an RMA# . Thanks everyone for the suggestions along the way! Quote Link to comment
jimwhite Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Good example of why many of us stick to the cheap crap Quote Link to comment
spinbot Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 Good example of why many of us stick to the cheap crap I've actually had the ram for quite a while as I attempted putting it in my main PC to boost it up to 4GB (well, 3.5GB as that's all XP can recognize ). The first 2GB I got, when installed in my main PC, it would reboot randomly (well, more often then not when the system was under load, particularily when the DVD burner was working ). I troubleshot the problem, replaced DVD drives, thought it was software related, etc and finally concluded the problem happens only when the ram is installed. I RMA'ed the RAM, got 2 new sticks and the exact same thing happened. At that point, I gave up as the system works fine with 2GB anyways and I figured it was just an issue with the motherboard. I bought the ram fairly cheap, which kinda annoyed me too. The first 2GB I bought I paid around $300 as RAM was at its peak prices about 2 or 3 years ago. Then I seen the exact same RAM available for $30 ( 1/10th the price ). I thought if I bought the exact same ram I would have no issues..... ya, I deserve a kick for that thought! So..... it really was "cheap" in price, but I thought I was getting good quality for that price. At least at this point I have made it through the RAM/HDD testing stage. This evening I think I just might do the next step, which I need to read up on as I have been so involved with the hardware issues. I know I need to plan a little before acting to figure out if I need shares, what type of shares, etc that would work best with my Popcorn Hour, but... I see another thread on that topic to ask my questions. I guess I should post my last pre-clear test for comment. The both said "PASS" and that's what I am focusing on This is Seagate drive first: =========================================================================== = unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sda = cycle 1 of 1 = Disk Pre-Clear-Read completed DONE = Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes DONE = Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE = Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward. DONE = Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4 DONE = Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area DONE = Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes DONE = Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state DONE = Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning DONE = Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries DONE = Step 10 of 10 - Testing if the clear has been successful. DONE = Post-Read in progress: 99% complete. ( 1,500,291,072,000 of 1,500,300,828,160 bytes read ) 62.0 MB/s Disk Temperature: 30C, Elapsed Time: 20:39:01 =========================================================================== = unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sda = cycle 1 of 1 = Disk Pre-Clear-Read completed DONE = Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes DONE = Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE = Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward. DONE = Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4 DONE = Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area DONE = Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes DONE = Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state DONE = Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning DONE = Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries DONE = Step 10 of 10 - Testing if the clear has been successful. DONE = Disk Post-Clear-Read completed DONE Disk Temperature: 30C, Elapsed Time: 20:39:58 ============================================================================ == == Disk /dev/sda has been successfully precleared == ============================================================================ S.M.A.R.T. error count differences detected after pre-clear note, some 'raw' values may change, but not be an indication of a problem 54c54 < 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 114 099 006 Pre-fail Always - 80057441 --- > 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 102 099 006 Pre-fail Always - 5164867 58c58 < 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 060 060 030 Pre-fail Always - 1122688 --- > 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 062 060 030 Pre-fail Always - 1655136 64,66c64,66 < 189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 073 073 000 Old_age Always - 27 < 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 070 068 045 Old_age Always - 30 (Lifetime Min/Max 30/30) < 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 045 040 000 Old_age Always --- > 189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 066 066 000 Old_age Always - 34 > 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 070 067 045 Old_age Always - 30 (Lifetime Min/Max 29/33) > 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 055 040 000 Old_age Always 70,72c70,72 < 240 Head_Flying_Hours 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 199295072469042 < 241 Unknown_Attribute 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 1213618071 < 242 Unknown_Attribute 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 16487113 --- > 240 Head_Flying_Hours 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 121676423495751 > 241 Unknown_Attribute 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 3161535917 > 242 Unknown_Attribute 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 4278945910 ============================================================================ root@Tower:/boot# The WD Drive second: Disk Temperature: 27C, Elapsed Time: 22:33:36 =========================================================================== = unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sdb = cycle 1 of 1 = Disk Pre-Clear-Read completed DONE = Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes DONE = Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE = Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward. DONE = Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4 DONE = Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area DONE = Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes DONE = Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state DONE = Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning DONE = Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries DONE = Step 10 of 10 - Testing if the clear has been successful. DONE = Post-Read in progress: 99% complete. ( 1,500,291,072,000 of 1,500,301,910,016 bytes read ) 43.7 MB/s Disk Temperature: 27C, Elapsed Time: 22:34:47 =========================================================================== = unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sdb = cycle 1 of 1 = Disk Pre-Clear-Read completed DONE = Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes DONE = Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE = Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward. DONE = Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4 DONE = Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area DONE = Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes DONE = Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state DONE = Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning DONE = Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries DONE = Step 10 of 10 - Testing if the clear has been successful. DONE = Disk Post-Clear-Read completed DONE Disk Temperature: 26C, Elapsed Time: 22:35:56 ============================================================================ == == Disk /dev/sdb has been successfully precleared == ============================================================================ S.M.A.R.T. error count differences detected after pre-clear note, some 'raw' values may change, but not be an indication of a problem 63c63 < 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 49 --- > 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 51 ============================================================================ root@Tower:/boot# Quote Link to comment
Kaygee Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 It is really a case of horses for courses. OCZ is a well respected performance product manufacturer, having said that most of their products are designed for tweakers and those looking for maximum performance. Their target audience is happy (if not expecting) to go into the bios and setup their systems, they will buy MB/s that allow them the maximum flexibility often at the expense of reliability (in my opinion). Having been nice to OCZ, I think they should of RMA'd the RAM once you stated the existing identical RAM works OK. Dont beat yourself up over buying the same RAM, it was the right decision, you knew it worked, buying more of the same to put into a system was the right decision. unRAID has an unusual set of requirements, it doesnt require (or work with in the case of RAID cards) the majority of server based hardware. What we want is relatively cheap, stable hardware with lots of ports and expansion slots. We dont need massive CPUs but require lots of I/O throughput and relatively speaking low memory requirements. So when you are looking for hardware you are looking for plain, basic reliable hardware. Single port NICs, non RAID version of SATA controllers. Basic VGA cards. Standard DIMMS (DDR2 1.8v). Preferably those that are on the H/W compatibility list or use the same chipsets as those on the H/W compatibility list. However you had the RAM in the drawer and chose to use it. Nothing wrong with that, exactly what I would have done. Plus you learnt a ton of new stuff, wasted a few hours and will know what to do next time. :-) Quote Link to comment
spinbot Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 Plus you learnt a ton of new stuff, wasted a few hours and will know what to do next time. :-) Since I have undertaken the UnRaid project I have done nothing but learn. Thankfully I have a technical aptitude as otherwise this might be too much for some people. I may not know the answers to half the things I run into, but everyone here is pretty helpful and the directions they give, the Wiki's give, etc are within my abilities. My biggest problem is that I am a perfectionist with obsessive compulsive tendencies, so often I don't like to take my next step until I am 100% sure its the right step to take. I am being relatively patient with my built to ensure I do it right. My thought is that if I mess something up, having to rebuilt the array or reload the harddrives with 2000+ DVD's would be a complete nightmare. I want it right the first time My next task now is to start moving data from my PCH drive and my PC drives into the array. I've picked up a few tips, along the way, that I can leave the parity drive out of the picture and that will save a lot of time as I move the files over to the array. I have a tiny cache drive ( only 20GB ), so I am going to leave that out for now as well. What I am need to figure out next is the how to properly setup the shares to that my Popcorn Hour can read everything , not just one drive at a time ( as I have to do with it now due to it not being able to mount more than one drive ). I know that BluRay rips may or may not work with the PCH, however I am not concerned about that at the moment as I only have a few of them and I can put them in the PS3 for playback, if necessary. Quote Link to comment
WeeboTech Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 My biggest problem is that I am a perfectionist with obsessive compulsive tendencies, so often I don't like to take my next step until I am 100% sure its the right step to take. I am being relatively patient with my built to ensure I do it right. My thought is that if I mess something up, having to rebuilt the array or reload the harddrives with 2000+ DVD's would be a complete nightmare. I want it right the first time I understand this.. This is one of the reasons I would have recommended dumping that ram or RMA'ing it. Don't move or delete any source data unless you can really rely on it. Considering what you went through. I would suggest doing some comparisons of files that are copied from the source to the destination to insure they are 100% intact. Quote Link to comment
spinbot Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 I understand this.. This is one of the reasons I would have recommended dumping that ram or RMA'ing it. Don't move or delete any source data unless you can really rely on it. Considering what you went through. I would suggest doing some comparisons of files that are copied from the source to the destination to insure they are 100% intact. The ram in the server is not the ram that had the errors as you guys suggested: if I can't trust the ram/hard-drive, then I am going to always have doubts about the integrity of the data on the drives. I'm going to run one more preclear on the drives tonight just to 100% sure everything looks good still. How would I verify the data has been shifted to the server accurately? Quote Link to comment
prostuff1 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 An md5 on the files at each end would help to verify the integrity of the file. Quote Link to comment
Kaygee Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 If you are keeping data i the same structures at each end, map a drive to each share, use FC.exe (most windows boxes have fc.exe). Create a test-data directory in each share, copy a test dataset and then run fc.exe. fc.exe x:\test-data\*.* y:\test-data\*.* With MD5.exe or md5sum.exe. \\serverx\share cd test-data md5.exe *.* >md5_x.txt \\servery\share cd test-data md5.exe *.* >md5_y.txt copy the two txt files to your text box. If the test data set is small you can manually compare them, if not Then fc.exe md5_y.txt md5_x.txt Quote Link to comment
RobJ Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 fc.exe x:\test-data\*.* y:\test-data\*.* One small change, you usually always want to run it with the /b option, like the following: fc.exe /b x:\test-data\*.* y:\test-data\*.* Quote Link to comment
Kaygee Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 fc.exe /b x:\test-data\*.* y:\test-data\*.* My choice would be fc.exe /a /b x:\test-data\*.* y:\test-data\*.* fc gets a bit excited/verbose if the files are different/corrupt or you suffer finger trouble. This and md5 producing a log is why I prefer a checksum based tool. Quote Link to comment
spinbot Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 I need to sleep and come back and re-read those posts. I'm running pre-clear one last time, then I will test some data as you guys suggested. Thanks Quote Link to comment
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