For container support, use the appropriate support thread


trurl

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Please don't post questions about specific docker containers in this forum. There are support threads for each of the containers in the Docker Containers forum and you should post your questions there on the appropriate thread where the container authors and other users with experience of the container are more likely to see it.

 

Also, it wouldn't hurt to read the support thread for a container to see if your question has already been answered. ;)

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  • 2 months later...

I was unaware of this.

This is by far the worst experience on this forum.

Users should be able to create new topics in the container support section.

for example "needo sabnzbd: help needed about blah blah"

 

This has honestly turned me away from seeking help regarding containers on this community forum.

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I was unaware of this.

This is by far the worst experience on this forum.

Users should be able to create new topics in the container support section.

for example "needo sabnzbd: help needed about blah blah"

 

This has honestly turned me away from seeking help regarding containers on this community forum.

 

I suggest you read my reply to your thread and perhaps you may think again.....  >:(

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I was unaware of this.

This is by far the worst experience on this forum.

Users should be able to create new topics in the container support section.

for example "needo sabnzbd: help needed about blah blah"

 

This has honestly turned me away from seeking help regarding containers on this community forum.

Sure, at times I can see your point on this.  But, consider the flip side:

 

Needo (in your example) would basically have to continually monitor all the unraid topics to try and help everyone.  Having dedicated support threads means that Needo would only have to subscribe to that particular thread, and he is then alerted to every post in that thread via his phone.  Makes support a ton easier.

 

True, at times various users can be a bit short when they say "Post in the correct support thread", but it does make everything a ton easier, and the links are very easy to get to via CA or even the All Applications And Support Links Sticky

 

Unfortunately, your example of Needo complicates matters a bit since

- He's not exactly active around here anymore

- It's in gfjardim's repository, and only the new containers have separate support threads - everything else is lumped into one

 

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I understand what you guys are attempting.

but there are 47 pages of material to skim through. i don't think anyone newer is willing to go through the trouble of finding the solution this way or even attempt to post in the right location.

 

I was unaware that needo is no longer as involved as he once was. Maybe I should change my repos.

 

None the less, thanks for the cooperation and help.

CHBMB has helped me solve my problem :)

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  • 2 years later...

Is it possible to create a support thread for the MyMediaForAlexa container even though the author does not post here?   The container for this is now available via dockerhub and I have been told by the developers that they will be keeping the dockerhub instance updated with the latest release.  I can see this being a very popular docker with UnRAID users so it would seem sensible to have a place to discuss any issues we find.     I am happy to put the initial detail required to set up the unRAID template via CA for this app into a post.

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13 hours ago, Squid said:

Is that the route to go even if I cannot provide any support for the container itself?   I thought that was the route for developers who built a container to be used with unRAID?   I guess I may also need to check with the software owners/developers that they are happy for me to do this as they will own any copyright (myMediaForAexa is not open-source and requires a license to use it) or is the fact the container is on dockerhub enough permission?

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4 hours ago, itimpi said:

Is that the route to go even if I cannot provide any support for the container itself?   I thought that was the route for developers who built a container to be used with unRAID?   I guess I may also need to check with the software owners/developers that they are happy for me to do this as they will own any copyright (myMediaForAexa is not open-source and requires a license to use it) or is the fact the container is on dockerhub enough permission?

 

There's a few people who just publish XMLs for the Unraid community, I agree it's a bit of a grey area, because as you say, you have absolutely no control upstream whatsoever, I have a few containers for which I've made XMLs for my personal use, but I refuse to publish them here for exactly that reason.  I can't even begin to support something I have no control over.  Personally I think maybe we shoud look into a sub category for these container templates.  @Squid?

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5 hours ago, itimpi said:

or is the fact the container is on dockerhub enough permission

In this case, it is enough.  Especially since they themselves tell you how to install via docker.   Open-Source does not mean free to use, nor does it mean that it has to be licensed under GPL or something that allows modifications / forks / whatnot.

1 hour ago, CHBMB said:

There's a few people who just publish XMLs for the Unraid community, I agree it's a bit of a grey area, because as you say, you have absolutely no control upstream whatsoever, I have a few containers for which I've made XMLs for my personal use, but I refuse to publish them here for exactly that reason.  I can't even begin to support something I have no control over.  Personally I think maybe we shoud look into a sub category for these container templates.

I'm not a particular fan of it, but there are a ton of apps like that available.

 

First one that pops into mind is cAdvisor @smdion  But, so long as the container actually works, then I do allow them in.  Otherwise, there would be a ton of apps that I would have never known about.  Glances, NetData as examples.

 

Fundamentally, is there any reason why I should run mySQL from LSIO's repository and not from Bungy's repository.  His points to the official repo whereas LSIO's is a homebrew.  Truth be told, on mySQL, I'm more inclined to believe that the official version is going to be more stable and bug-free than a homebrew.   Sure, all of lsio containers utilize the same base image in order to save space, but storage is cheap.

 

Support threads do not technically have to be hosted on unRaid.  Prime example would be the official Plex container.  It's support link points to their own forum.

 

It actually bothers me more about the completely unsupported containers that are out there by persons who did create their own docker containers.  There's one repository in CA from a formerly active member (still semi-active) that has now chosen to completely abandon all of the containers within it and support instead a different repository.  If/when the individual apps within have issues posted about them, the app tends to get immediately blacklisted or deprecated since I know there is no fix forthcoming.  There's another repository present in CA that as far as I'm concerned, the authors of have no business creating containers in the first place, support on them is nil, and recommendation on the threads is to not use them.  But for political reasons, they have to stay.

 

There's gray areas all around.  LSIO's containers all auto-update to the latest version of the program every Friday (Plex does it IIRC with every startup).  How many times has LSIO pumped out an update for an app that actually breaks the app?  When the bug seems to take a while to fix, the suggestion is to instead choose a particular tag instead of waiting for the app itself to get fixed.

 

If you're pumping out autoupdating containers and are not the authors of the app, then you're not in control either.   In this particular circumstance, I can only think of two apps where the maintainer of the template is actually completely in control.  JBartlett's Diskspeed, and LSIO's Heimdall.  

 

The one thing that's a given is the simply publishing a template to an app does not mean that you will get the "Developer Status".  That forum status is not given out lightly anymore.

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I agree it's a grey area, but I don't think dismissing a distinction between a template and a container should be dismissed outright.

 

It's a difficult balance, and I agree sometimes our containers break with an update, but that's Linux computers.  But if it breaks, then at least we can make some effort to look at the container and distinguish if it's a container problem or an upstream app problem, and fix the former and as you say, advise to use a tagged release.

 

If you're solely publishing a template, then there's really nothing you can do.  One might argue they are better off without a support thread at all, but I can see the sense in having a place on the forums for Unraid users who want to use that particular container to discuss it, especially as the bar to entry as it were has been lowered considerably. 

 

I quite often find an issue is upstream in the application itself, by googling an error code.  Nothing I can do about it, and no reason why the person couldn't have done that themselves, but that's the way it goes, but I think we also have to realise that a percentage of the users aren't familiar with github, have no real understanding of the mechanics underlying docker containers and upstream/downstream issues, and there's no reason why they should, that's not what Unraid is about, but we tend to get very different support threads on github than we do here, primarily because it's a different cohort of users, on github it tends to be people who are using their own server with a distro and snapraid or something and docker compose etc whereas here, not necessarily the majority of users are quite as advanced and, (although as we both know there are some seriously advanced users here), it can be pretty basic stuff that trips people up.   My point being, would it be wrong to make it clearer that this template purely gives you an easy way to install an application from dockerhub, without the publisher actually having any control over the process.

 

Given a choice between a template to a random dockerhub container that may or may not be official and one of our,  @binhex's, or  @Djoss container I know which one I'd pick.  Was just suggesting that it might be an idea to delineate that a little that's all.

 

 

Edited by CHBMB
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The fact I would no control over the container contents was one reason I asked if it was possible to start a thread (that possibly could be referenced by a XML template) that was for discussion rather than support.  I do not see the MyMediaForAlexa developers wanting to have a specific support thread on the unRAID forums (although I would like to be proved wrong!) as they are treating their app as multi-platform.   I see a need for an area on the unRAID forums where unRAID users can discuss anything that is unRAID specific with the MyMediaForAlexa container so that only genuine container issues get fed upstream.  This could obviously be done in one of the more open areas but it seemed logical to me that it should be done in the sub-forum dedicated to containers.   I did not necessarily want to be given developer status so that I could creat my own thread in this area.

 

As more commercial apps are released in docker container format there does seem to be a need for the clear separation of the container and unRAID specific issues such as the XML template    I think there is probably an assumption that in such a scenario the docker container is likely to be maintained as the developers have a commercial interest in maintaining it.   The XML template is less likely to be similarity maintained, but once set up it is likely to be static in nature.   

 

i have raised some of these type of questions via email with the MyMediaForAlexa developers to see if they have any particular desires in how thins are handled am and am awaiting a response.   I have also asked if I put together the XML template for installing the MyMediaForAlexa container on unRAID and passed it on if they would vet it and then host it on gitHub themselves.

 

from a personal perspective I already have MyMediaForAlexa installed and running in a docker container on unRAID.   I was thinking I could share/use my experience in doing this to make it easier for other users in the future.

Edited by itimpi
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4 minutes ago, itimpi said:

The fact I would no control over the container contents was one reason I asked if it was possible to start a thread (that possibly could be referenced by a XML template) that was for discussion rather than support.  I do not see the MyMediaForAlexa developers wanting to have a specific support thread on the unRAID forums (although I would like to be proved wrong!) as they are treating their app as multi-platform.   I see a need for an area on the unRAID forums where unRAID users can discuss anything that is unRAID specific with the MyMediaForAlexa container so that only genuine container issues get fed upstream.  This could obviously be done in one of the more open areas but it seemed logical to me that it should be done in the sub-forum dedicated to containers.   I did not necessarily want to be given developer status so that I could creat my own thread in this area.

 

As more commercial apps are released in docker container format there does seem to be a need for the clear separation of the container and unRAID specific issues such as the XML template    I think there is probably an assumption that in such a scenario the docker container is likely to be maintained as the developers have a commercial interest in maintaining it.   The XML template is less likely to be similarity maintained, but once set up it is likely to be static in nature.   

 

i have raised some of these type of questions via email with the MyMediaForAlexa developers to see if they have any particular desires in how thins are handled am and am awaiting a response.   I have also asked if I put together the XML template for installing the MyMediaForAlexa container on unRAID and passed it on if they would vet it and then host it on gitHub themselves.

 

I think the easiest thing is for you to publish the template tbh, also it's difficult to support a template from their perspective without a running Unraid instance.   So probably better you retain control of that imho.

 

Also from the DVB stuff I know that as soon as I mention Unraid, the standard response is "We don't support Unraid" so now if I liase with any of the driver publishers/developers I tend to just say Slackware which is the truth, and a version of Linux that they've heard of.....

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Just now, CHBMB said:

 

I think the easiest thing is for you to publish the template tbh, also it's difficult to support a template from their perspective without a running Unraid instance.   So probably better you retain control of that imho.

 

Also from the DVB stuff I know that as soon as I mention Unraid, the standard response is "We don't support Unraid" so now if I liase with any of the driver publishers/developers I tend to just say Slackware which is the truth, and a version of Linux that they've heard of.....

OK, I will just wait to hear back from the MyMediaForAlexa developers that they are happy with that approach, and assuming they are will get the XML template set up on github.

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58 minutes ago, CHBMB said:

Was just suggesting that it might be an idea to delineate that a little that's all.

I can't tell what container is written by an maintainer vs one that's not (unless its dirt obvious)

 

The one thing is that if an template author is beyond lazy and tosses up a template that CA converted, and leaves in the "...Converted By CA..." message in the description, it's automatically moderated by CA implying to users to not use it.

58 minutes ago, CHBMB said:

especially as the bar to entry as it were has been lowered considerably

 

It hasn't.  If anything, its higher now that someone (pat on head :) ) actually checks stuff out.  But I can't discriminate either.  If a simple template adds value to the app eco-system, its in.  If it doesn't, its removed.

 

If the original question had been from anyone other than @itimpi, I would have ignored it completely.  My opinion there is that if you can't figure out

  1. Who the author of CA is and who handles it or,
  2. Find the FAQ about what is required for inclusion in CA

Then I probably don't want you in there.

 

Most of the requests that I get for additions to CA don't fulfill the basic requirements set out in the FAQ.  The repo does get added as a tentative, while the other requirements are in the process of being met.  If after ~1 week the requirements aren't met, the repo gets pulled.  Add in all of the automated checks that CA itself performs on every template present, and either the fixes it makes, or the automatic blacklisting under certain circumstances (lol -> lsio has one template automatically being dropped).  And there are other tests I do on the applists via scripts here every once in a while that aren't convenient for CA to do itself every time a user loads it. 

 

You've got to remember also that I read (or at least skim) pretty much all the posts here.  As far as problems with apps are concerned, the ones that catch my eye are ones that don't work out of the box.  On any post like that, its an automatic -> I install it.  If it works for me, so be it.  If it doesn't work action gets taken.

 

But, of course I'm not stupid either.  Every single user of CA has had to agree to the "Cover My Ass" warning when installing before they are able to use it.

 

And yes I know that I'm sounding a bit defensive here.  

 

58 minutes ago, CHBMB said:

My point being, would it be wrong to make it clearer that this template purely gives you an easy way to install an application from dockerhub, without the publisher actually having any control over the process.

 

You are right there, and point taken, but I think that's more of an education thing than something which I can easily moderate, especially since the internet effectively give anonymity to everyone.  Nothing says that the owner of the github repo for templates can't have a separate account for the docker builds, and in the case of non-automated builds, you can't even find the github repo for the build itself.

 

15 minutes ago, itimpi said:

I do not see the MyMediaForAlexa developers wanting to have a specific support thread on the unRAID forums (although I would like to be proved wrong!) as they are treating their app as multi-platform.

Which is why in CA and on the docker/dashboard drop downs there is are separate links to Support Threads / Project Threads.  Like I said I have no problems with support threads themselves being hosted on another forum.

 

8 minutes ago, CHBMB said:

I think the easiest thing is for you to publish the template tbh

I agree.  Especially since the app is both timely, popular in the hardware sense, missing from CA, and certainly worthy of inclusion.  The ultimate test here (and with any app) is how good it is, not how good the maintainer of the template or container is.

 

Edited by Squid
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1 hour ago, CHBMB said:

especially as the bar to entry as it were has been lowered considerably. 

 

4 minutes ago, Squid said:

It hasn't.  If anything, its higher now that someone (pat on head :) ) actually checks stuff out.  But I can't discriminate either.  If a simple template adds value to the app eco-system, its in.  If it doesn't, its removed.

 

I meant the bar to entry to using Unraid rather than inclusion to CA.  So you can unpat that head of yours :P

 

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