Up-to-date Time Machine instructions for unRAID 6 and OS X 10.11?

[Josh7890]

Hi all,

 

I'm trying to track down documentation about how to set up Time Machine backups from OS X to unRAID. I've found a variety of information but in all cases some things seem to be out of date.

 

Can anyone point me in the direction of the latest instructions for unRAID 6.x and newer versions of OS X?

 

Here are some of the resources I've found so far. Are these instructions still valid?

 

How to set unRAID up with Time Machine? (forum topic from 2013)

UNRAID/MAC Basics (forum topic from 2012)

setup Share advice for TimeMachine (forum topic from 2012)

https://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/Plugin/webGui/AFP

 

Some of the things I'm trying to figure out are:

• AFP or SMB with El Capitan?
  
• Disk share or User share on a single disk? (or does this still matter?)
  
• One share per Mac in the house or one share for all of them?
  
• Is there a change required on the OS X end?
  

[jonp]

To use time machine with unRAID, make sure under Settings -> AFP, you have AFP enabled.  Then create a new share for you time machine backups.  Then edit the share and under the AFP section, set export to Yes (Time Machine). Clicking help on this page will then give you more info on how to use it.

 

Time machine still requires AFP to use it, so no SMB for that, and while you can choose to create multiple shares for each user, you don't have to.

[Josh7890]

Thanks Jon! Looking in the product for instructions - makes too much sense.

 

I think I've got things working now. One question: Is it fine to use the cache for the TM share to get better write speeds? Will the mover be able to handle the encrypted sparse bundles?

 

*Edit*: And one more question, is it still a requirement for Time Machine to have the user share on only one data disk, or can it be spread out as unRAID sees fit as with other user shares?

[Josh7890]

One more question about Time Machine: Using El Capitan and unRAID 6.1.7, is there anything special required to use encrypted Time Machine backups? I started a backup, and to verify that it was encrypted I tried to mount the sparsebundle on a separate machine, and it mounted without requiring a password. Any ideas?

[Pete]

Hi Josh,

 

unfortunately I have no definite answer but did some testing.

 

I tried a multi disk user share and a cache disk:

 

What didn't work was to use allocation method fill-up. Seems the sparse bundles don't like disks, that have no free space even if the user share has a lot of free space (on other disks).

 

With allocation method high-water, it worked. Occasionally some data never was removed from the cache disk although it had been written to the disks.

 

Give it a try and report, whether it works for you.

 

 

A general word on UNRAID and Time Machine to the developers:

 

As you cannot span a Time Machine backup over more than one disk, backing up one or more 6 TB drives with Time Machine isn't an easy task. Even Apple has no good answer. The only official way is to set up a traditional RAID 5/6 or JBOD disk array. The big downside is that these are not expandable. If you get another drive you want to backup as well, you likely have to delete your existing RAID 5/6 or JBOD and set it up containing additional disks.

 

A multidisk user share on UNRAID would be the ideal device for Time Machine backups, because you can expand an UNRAID simply by adding additional disks, without having to erase existing data. Unfortunately the "official" recommendation to use only one disk for a Time Machine backup counteracts this benefit and makes it useless for backing up data over 6 TB.

 

Making UNRAID officially work with multidisk user shares IMO would significantly boost UNRAID sales making it THE ultimate Time Machine storage. Investigating a bit of time to make this bullet-proof is probably well spent.

[John_M]

Forgive me, Pete, but I'm confused by what you wrote:

 

I tried a multi disk user share and a cache disk:

 

With allocation method high-water, it worked.

 

But later, in your note to the developers, you imply that multi-disk user shares don't work as Time Machine destinations. I stumbled on this thread while searching in order to help someone else who is trying to use an unRAID server with Time Machine. Now I'm more puzzled than I was before 

[Pete]

Hi John,

 

let me explain.

 

If you read through the forum about Time Machine and UNRAID the usual recommendation is not to spread an individual TM backup over multiple disks. Easiest way is to use a disk share instead of a User share. You can put different TM backups on different disks though.

 

As I explained, this defeats the advantages of UNRAID to store a TM backup of a Mac with one or more big hard drives. Because TM backups keep a history of changes, it is recommended that the TM volume should be at least 1.5 times bigger than the size of all hard disk attached to your Mac. And because TM has no functionality to spread a TM backup over more than one hard disk, you need a virtual hard disk like a RAID, JBOD made from individual hard disks or easier and more flexible a User share on an UNRAID, if the total disk space you want to backup exceeds the biggest hard disk you can buy currently.

 

Second recommendation is not to use a cache disk. Usually that is not an issue as TM backups can run slowly in the background. But if you set up a big UNRAID to backup a couple of Macs, things can become a bit slow without a cache disk.

 

So if you follow the "official" recommendation you have to use only a single disk and no cache disk for TM backups, which in fact makes UNRAID less appropriate for TM backups than traditional RAID solutions.

 

You can do it my way and use a User share spread over multiple/all disk and use a cache disk. And as long as you use method high-water it seemed to work. But I wouldn't call this a proven and solid solution.

 

The fact that my first test with method fill-up failed, implies, that there is a risk, that a TM backup gets corrupted, if any hard disk, that is involved in the backup process fills up. That  could be a disk in the User share or the cache disk. Frankly I don't understand, why this is an issue, because TM backups on network volumes are store as Sparse Bundles and those are just a collection of bands.

 

And that is probably, why you were confused: I call it only partially working, because there are some potential issues you can run into, that lead to a corrupted TM backup. And that is the last thing you want to see on your backup.

 

I have the impression, that if the developers would investigate into the issues that sparse bundles might have with multi-disk user shares or the cache disk, find the reason for this and iron it out, UNRAID would be the ideal server for TM backups and I would recommend it to anyone as the first choice.

 

Currently using it the way I do is more like an experiment and not recommended for the average user.

[John_M]

Thanks for taking the time to explain, Pete. I think, for the time being at least, I'll stick to using a USB-connected hard disk for my Time Machine backups.

[ksignorini]

Any further movement on this?

 

I'm just setting up my Time Machine shares and chose to only allow the share to exist on one "Included disk(s)" only.  I also chose the Split level as "Manual: do not automatically split directories" as an added safety measure.  I set "Use cache disk" to "No".

 

Any thoughts?

[Can0n]

Here is what I found worked...

I tried to not use Cache and specify only one disk and used Private with same user account as my Mac. Time Machine (Using MacOS Sierra) will not connect..


attaching a screenshot (annotated and redacted) of my settings

[ksignorini]

On 1/11/2016 at 6:43 PM, jonp said:

To use time machine with unRAID, make sure under Settings -> AFP, you have AFP enabled.  Then create a new share for you time machine backups.  Then edit the share and under the AFP section, set export to Yes (Time Machine). Clicking help on this page will then give you more info on how to use it.

 

Time machine still requires AFP to use it, so no SMB for that, and while you can choose to create multiple shares for each user, you don't have to.

 

As Time Machine can now run across SMB (as of macOS Sierra https://support.apple.com/kb/PH25585?locale=en_US), any plans to implement Time Machine backups across SMB in unRAID? This would be fantastic. (Including limits on the SMB share size.)

Edited August 26, 2017 by ksignorini

[steve1977]

Is it correct that TM only works over SMB starting from High Sierra? If so, does Unraid still support High Sierra TM backups?

[wgstarks]

7 hours ago, steve1977 said:

Is it correct that TM only works over SMB starting from High Sierra? If so, does Unraid still support High Sierra TM backups?

It is true.

Any Time Machine share points must be shared over SMB instead of AFP.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208018

[wgstarks]

There is a feature request for this support. https://forums.lime-technology.com/topic/50902-time-machine-over-smb-mac-os-sierra/?tab=comments#comment-501634

Since this will probably be dependent on vfs_fruit support it might be a while though.

[ksignorini]

Yeah, this is going to suck. One of the reasons I chose unRAID was for the TimeMachine backup ability. I hope the unRAID guys find a way to build the SMB TimeMachine backup capability into unRAID itself.

 

I’m not a big fan of vfs_fruit. In my humble opinion, it’s No Good™. I’m assuming that the “OS X Compatibility” flag in unRAID simply turns it on with some default options. One of those options forces by-user permissions (rather than nobody:users) and makes sharing a folder among multiple unRAID users all but impossible. I hope I’m not forced to enable that flag across the board if I want to use SMB shares for TimeMachine (it will be okay if it’s just for the TM directories).

 

Anyway, I hope we get a solution in a timely fashion. I love unRAID and hate to lose this functionality.

Edited September 23, 2017 by ksignorini

[bdee1]

any updates on this?  I have tried to use my unraid server for time machine backups and have not had much success.   I would love to use unraid as a reliable time machine backup location.

[David Bott]

Really...No reply to this?  I also am looking to use unRAID to handle my TimeMachine backups. I mean, other NAS products have this built right in seeing that Apple no longer makes a TimeVault product.

 

So where does unRAID stand with TimeMachine.  I want to use my Cache drive, which is a 1TB SSD that I installed just for this reason.  The intent was to make 800GB available for TimeMachine to use.  

 

So I came looking for setup instructions and there does not really seem to be anything much about it which I was kind of surprised at seeing where unRAID is these days as a really great NAS. 

 

It would be great to have unRAID address this or point me to the proper way to set it up now a days with version 6.5.X of unRAID on current versions of the MAC OS.  I have looked for it but I really did not do well in my search.  So many questions...Accounts needed or not? AFP or SMB?  So much crossed information I am finding.  From my understanding, AFP should not be need to used. Not to mention it is slow from what I have read. So very lost on this to say the least.  It is like one would think there would be a TimeMachine setup button or something to press in unRAID.

 

Thanks all.

Edited December 31, 2018 by David Bott

[wgstarks]

On 1/11/2016 at 3:31 PM, Josh7890 said:

AFP or SMB with El Capitan?

AFP. TimeMachine backups via SMB is a feature scheduled for the version 6.7 release of unRAID.

 

On 1/11/2016 at 3:31 PM, Josh7890 said:

Disk share or User share on a single disk? (or does this still matter?)

As far as I know, it doesn't matter.

 

On 1/11/2016 at 3:31 PM, Josh7890 said:

One share per Mac in the house or one share for all of them?

I use one share per Mac. Lets me limit the size of each backup.

 

On 1/11/2016 at 3:31 PM, Josh7890 said:

Is there a change required on the OS X end?

No. You should be able to just mount the share on your Mac and point TM at it.

 

I am far from an expert, but it's my understanding that it is best to set an alternate location for Volume db path. I set up another share for this-

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by wgstarks

[matryska]

On 1/1/2019 at 8:51 AM, David Bott said:

Really...No reply to this?  I also am looking to use unRAID to handle my TimeMachine backups. I mean, other NAS products have this built right in seeing that Apple no longer makes a TimeVault product.

 

On 1/1/2019 at 9:05 AM, wgstarks said:

TimeMachine backups via SMB is a feature scheduled for the version 6.7 release of unRAID.

 

Hi, I have addressed both: https://forums.unraid.net/topic/76694-unassigned-time-machine/

You may need to modify it to suit your specific needs

[cherrybullet]

My issue with getting this to work was that I needed to login to the network share as a specific user with r/w rights to the share, and not as simply a guest as it was doing.

[John_M]

4 hours ago, cherrybullet said:

My issue with getting this to work was that I needed to login to the network share as a specific user with r/w rights to the share, and not as simply a guest as it was doing.

Yes, you ideally want to set up a dedicated user (such as "TimeMachine" or "TM" or similar) that has no other purpose than to be the owner of the Time Machine share, rather than use an existing user, so as not to compromise the security of the backups that Time Machine makes.