Dune HD stutters / playback issues with V6

[allischalmersman]

Hello.  Poking my head back on here as you guys have been very helpful to me here recently.  I try to read and find problems on my own but here is a question.  Upon upgrading my server to V 6.1.8 from version 5 I have now discovered that my Dune HD doesnt play.  Im having unusable playback issues as frequent freezing, stuttering, and audio dropout.  I have had NO problems ever in the past.  I have gigabit network all the way to the dune which is 100mbps itself but again, no issues ever in the past.  I found this thread http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=39350.0;nowap which describes my issue exactly but this is referecing a beta version.  Is this my problem also you think?  Does V6 just not work with Reatek drivers?

 

Here is the realteck info on my motherboard.  Again, no hardware changes have been made.  It always worked before with no playback issues.

 

04:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 06)

        Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. P8P67 and other motherboards

        Kernel driver in use: r8169

        Kernel modules: r8169

 

Do you think there is a high probability that this issue would be fixed by purchasing an intel NIC?  I actually have an Intel NIC laying around here somehwere but im 99% sure it's 100mbps.  I could use it as a test though.  As always, Thanks for your help in advance!

[allischalmersman]

Well I just found an Intel Pro/1000 GT adapter in my parts collection.  I may throw this in the server tonight and see how it goes.  All input still welcome!  Thanks, Andrew

[Frank1940]

You might want to read through this thread:

 

      https://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=39350.0

[allischalmersman]

Yea I referenced that thread in my original post.  That was a beta version.  So its still assumed to be a realtek issue?  I will post back tonight with results after putting in this Intel NIC I have.  What changed in V6 vs V5 that caused the realtek chips to have issues?  And why does it not happen doing any other tasks?  Transferring large files, etc no issues.  Not trying to be a pain, just curious.  Thanks!

[Frank1940]

Yea I referenced that thread in my original post.  That was a beta version.  So its still assumed to be a realtek issue?  I will post back tonight with results after putting in this Intel NIC I have.  What changed in V6 vs V5 that caused the realtek chips to have issues?  And why does it not happen doing any other tasks?  Transferring large files, etc no issues.  Not trying to be a pain, just curious.  Thanks!

 

My suspicions is that about the time I found the issue, some changes made to the way the kernel was optimized for better VM and Docker performance that impacted the RealTek driver performance for systems with low performance CPU's.  This has never been really verified as I was the only one to extensive investigate it.  As you probably found, I 'cured' the problem with an Intel Network Card... 

 

By the way, you will probably find that you will now get a Network Receive 'Drops:' errors on the Dashboard.  (Current count on my Media server after seven days of uptime is over 59,000,000!)  They do not cause any issue or problem that I can detect.  These Drops did NOT occur with the RealTek driver.

[allischalmersman]

I have seen some "drops" actually.  Well since you bring up CPU performance I will try that first just for scientific purposes lol.  I have a AMD dual core 2.7 GHZ I am getting ready to replace with a 4 core 3.0 GHz that is the hottest processor I can get for that socket.  I may even overclock it slightly as I have a nice Noctua cooler to put on it.  I will do this CPU experimenting before I try the Intel NIC card.  I want performance to be as best a possible so I may still use the Intel NIC if it will increase performance.  But I would like to know if the issue is exaggerated by low power CPUs.  FYI I killed all the other tasks I had going on and trying to stream was very low on CPU usage yet problem still occurs.  Ill let you know how the swapping goes!  Thanks for your help!

[allischalmersman]

Frank1940 thanks for your help.  Well that was fun lol

 

Installed AMD3870K and running at 4 cores @ 3.3 GHz..... no change still stutters

 

Reset all network switches and router (should have done this before...)....still no change

 

Installed Intel PRO 1000 NIC and (after disabling onboard NIC) ...... BAM my Dune HD works again! 

 

Thanks everyone!

[achalmersman]

Well i take it back.  Still stuttering, but not nearly as bad or nearly as often.  This really sucks i was really enjoying version 6.  Any other suggestions other than rolling back to version 5?

 

[achalmersman]

Well I have no idea why I had like a 45 minute window where the problem seemed to be gone.  Now its right back to screwing up just as bad as it was with the realtek. 

 

Even if you pause the movie and resume it will not recover and stop skipping.  How are the forums not on fire with this issue? Surely I'm not the only one still using a Dune HD?

 

I'm going to see if its primarily movies from 1 disc next.  Is there any logs or something that might give a clue as to the problem?

 

[allischalmersman]

Sorry guys I didnt realize posting from Tapatalk was using a different username.

 

I  can confirm that the issue is not related to files being played from just 1 disc.  I am having the issue regardless of which disc is being read

[Frank1940]

Sorry guys I didnt realize posting from Tapatalk was using a different username.

 

I  can confirm that the issue is not related to files being played from just 1 disc.  I am having the issue regardless of which disc is being read

 

Is it doing it only on material with BluRay (1080P HD) data rates or does it also stutter on DVD material?  (My problems were limited to BluRay ISO's and high data rates made it much worst...)

[bonienl]

... How are the forums not on fire with this issue? Surely I'm not the only one still using a Dune HD?

 

Sure there are lots of people still using Dne HD, including myself and don't experience any stuttering.

 

Can't really tell what your issue is exactly, but it points to a combination of your hardware and software.

 

[Frank1940]

Since you seem to have a lot of stuff laying around, I have a suggestion of one more thing to try.  Check to see if you have a old switch laying around-- even a 10/100 one will do.  (100Mbps is more than adequate for any bluRay material!) Connect only the server and the Dune to it.  Then connect the uplink port of that switch to the router so that it will have DHCP service.  Is the stuttering condition still there?  Did its behavior change in any way? 

 

I should tell you that two of my three Media boxes (Netgear 550) are connected to 10/100 switches at their representative media center (Too many audio/video devices require internet connections these days!)  and there is a GB switch on that floor which distributes the signal to those two switches.  On another floor is the main 16 port GB switch (where the servers are located) which is connected to a 10/100 router to provide the Internet connection and DHCP service.  So there are up to three layers of switches involved in my network and I don't have stuttering issues at this time. 

 

I have had switches and routers go flakey over the years that have caused some unusual problems...

[achalmersman]

Since you seem to have a lot of stuff laying around, I have a suggestion of one more thing to try.  Check to see if you have a old switch laying around-- even a 10/100 one will do.  (100Mbps is more than adequate for any bluRay material!) Connect only the server and the Dune to it.  Then connect the uplink port of that switch to the router so that it will have DHCP service.  Is the stuttering condition still there?  Did its behavior change in any way? 

 

I should tell you that two of my three Media boxes (Netgear 550) are connected to 10/100 switches at their representative media center (Too many audio/video devices require internet connections these days!)  and there is a GB switch on that floor which distributes the signal to those two switches.  On another floor is the main 16 port GB switch (where the servers are located) which is connected to a 10/100 router to provide the Internet connection and DHCP service.  So there are up to three layers of switches involved in my network and I don't have stuttering issues at this time. 

 

I have had switches and routers go flakey over the years that have caused some unusual problems...

I have that stuff laying around lol.  I will try that suggestion.  Right now the setup is a Netgear R8000 router in my office l hooked to a Netgear prosafe 24 port in the basement which feeds my house  via patchpanel.  In the livingroom is a Netgear prosafe 16 port for my entertainment center which is what the Dune is hooked to.  Unraid is in the basement hooked to the 24 port.  I have an HP Procurve 24 port laying here that not being used Ill give your suggestion a try.

 

Current configuration

 

Server is Asus F1A75-Vpro AMD 3870k 4 core 3.3GHz processor, 4GB DDR3, Intel Pro1000 NIC, LSI 16 port controller, 4 Seagate 3TB 7200 drives, 1 Seagate 4TB 5900 drive, cache pool consisting of 1 Seagate 500gb 7200 and 1 seagate 320gb 7200.  All in a Norco 4224 chasis. Oh and if it matters i have 2 more 4TB seagate 5900s that are in the chassis but not currently assigned one is preclearing now actually (not when i was doing tests)

 

[achalmersman]

Update:  Havent had a bunch of time to spend troubleshooting but I have a 100' cat5e cable running from my Dune in the living room to my router in my office.  So far no issues going that way yet I have issues when plugged into the netgear switch in the living room.  No issues,with the other devices plugged into that switch however the Dune is the highest bandwidth device.  Xbox One is used for netflix etc it would,be 2nd highest.  Ill keep updated.  Odd this happened after upgrading the server to V6

[Frank1940]

Update:  Havent had a bunch of time to spend troubleshooting but I have a 100' cat5e cable running from my Dune in the living room to my router in my office.  So far no issues going that way yet I have issues when plugged into the netgear switch in the living room.  No issues,with the other devices plugged into that switch however the Dune is the highest bandwidth device.  Xbox One is used for netflix etc it would,be 2nd highest.  Ill keep updated.  Odd this happened after upgrading the server to V6

 

My experience has been that 1080P HD streams seem to present their set of unusual problems when steaming.  Even 720P steams are much more forgiving.  And the higher the data rate in those 1080P streams, the worst the problems are.  (With the  VLC player, I have issues streaming 1080P mp4 video and none with 720P mp4 video across the network.) 

 

You seem to have isolated the problem to your network.  Now the problem is to try to figure out how to eliminate the problem.  I would probably start by using the 100' cat5E cable to  feed the netgear switch in the living room.  Then replace that switch if the cable isn't the problem. 

[achalmersman]

Update:  Havent had a bunch of time to spend troubleshooting but I have a 100' cat5e cable running from my Dune in the living room to my router in my office.  So far no issues going that way yet I have issues when plugged into the netgear switch in the living room.  No issues,with the other devices plugged into that switch however the Dune is the highest bandwidth device.  Xbox One is used for netflix etc it would,be 2nd highest.  Ill keep updated.  Odd this happened after upgrading the server to V6

 

My experience has been that 1080P HD streams seem to present their set of unusual problems when steaming.  Even 720P steams are much more forgiving.  And the higher the data rate in those 1080P streams, the worst the problems are.  (With the  VLC player, I have issues streaming 1080P mp4 video and none with 720P mp4 video across the network.) 

 

You seem to have isolated the problem to your network.  Now the problem is to try to figure out how to eliminate the problem.  I would probably start by using the 100' cat5E cable to  feed the netgear switch in the living room.  Then replace that switch if the cable isn't the problem.

Well its definitley 1080p stuff I primarily stream full copy BDMV folders.  Ive been using that particular switch for months though with no issue.  But thats how things go lol.

[KYThrill]

I too have been having some Dune HD problems lately.  I have 5 Dune HD's on my network, being served by unRAID.  Before going to V6 of unRAID, I could watch a movie on a Dune, and at the same time, initiate a file transfer to the same drive that was playing the movie.  Never a problem in the past 5 years doing this all the time.  Basically, my system has been trouble free, other than the time I had a memory module fail.

 

But after going V6, if I try to do that, the movie that is playing will usually freeze.  So I've had to quit doing transfers when a movie is playing.  I don't know if this is all V6 or not.  When I went V6.1.3, I don't think I was having this problem.  But now I am on 6.1.9, and definitely have the problem.  But I also migrated from ReiserFS/6.1.3 to XFS/6.1.9, so I don't know if it could be a unRAID version change, or a change because of the file system?

 

Also, when I was on V5.X, I never had any network errors.  But now that I am on 6.1.9, I get millions of RX overruns showing on my NIC (and I rebooted less than a week ago).  It is a Realtek 8211CL, which unRAID loads the forcedeth .64 driver for it.  I have a second unRAID (also 6.1.9), which uses a Realtek 8168, and it has zero RX errors in over 6 months of uptime (and it uses the r8169 realtek driver).  I don't really know when these RX errors started, when I first went 6, or most recently just with 6.1.9.

 

Recently, I've been noticing audio dropouts on high bit rate streams (blu-ray rips w/ TrueHD) that I never had before, I movies I've watched dozens of times before.  So I started watching, and everytime there is an audio dropout, the RX overrun counter increments. 

 

So this is starting to become very frustrating.  I don't know if rolling back to 6.1.3 or 6.1.8 would help any.  I really don't want to go back to 5.X.  Or is the the XFS file system?  Or would buying a new NIC work?

[KYThrill]

Well,

 

I just checked unRAID, and it actually reports that my Ethernet controller is a Nvidia MCP77, not a Realtek.

 

But MSI's website states "Supports 10/100/1000 Fast Ethernet by Realtek 8211CL ".  It states the same in the manual.  I remember the box it came in also mention the 8211CL on the box.  So could unRAID 6X be detecting the wrong controller, and now I have the wrong driver?

 

Or maybe MSI just made some undocumented change  to the MB and I have some V2 version of the MB and it was never documented?

[John_M]

Well,

 

I just checked unRAID, and it actually reports that my Ethernet controller is a Nvidia MCP77, not a Realtek.

 

But MSI's website states "Supports 10/100/1000 Fast Ethernet by Realtek 8211CL ".  It states the same in the manual.  I remember the box it came in also mention the 8211CL on the box.  So could unRAID 6X be detecting the wrong controller, and now I have the wrong driver?

 

Or maybe MSI just made some undocumented change  to the MB and I have some V2 version of the MB and it was never documented?

 

Have a look at your diagnostics files. The ethtool.txt and lspci.txt files in the system folder will give you some clues.

 

[Frank1940]

I too have been having some Dune HD problems lately.  I have 5 Dune HD's on my network, being served by unRAID.  Before going to V6 of unRAID, I could watch a movie on a Dune, and at the same time, initiate a file transfer to the same drive that was playing the movie.  Never a problem in the past 5 years doing this all the time.  Basically, my system has been trouble free, other than the time I had a memory module fail.

 

But after going V6, if I try to do that, the movie that is playing will usually freeze.  So I've had to quit doing transfers when a movie is playing.  I don't know if this is all V6 or not.  When I went V6.1.3, I don't think I was having this problem.  But now I am on 6.1.9, and definitely have the problem.  But I also migrated from ReiserFS/6.1.3 to XFS/6.1.9, so I don't know if it could be a unRAID version change, or a change because of the file system?

 

Also, when I was on V5.X, I never had any network errors.  But now that I am on 6.1.9, I get millions of RX overruns showing on my NIC (and I rebooted less than a week ago).  It is a Realtek 8211CL, which unRAID loads the forcedeth .64 driver for it.  I have a second unRAID (also 6.1.9), which uses a Realtek 8168, and it has zero RX errors in over 6 months of uptime (and it uses the r8169 realtek driver).  I don't really know when these RX errors started, when I first went 6, or most recently just with 6.1.9.

 

Recently, I've been noticing audio dropouts on high bit rate streams (blu-ray rips w/ TrueHD) that I never had before, I movies I've watched dozens of times before.  So I started watching, and everytime there is an audio dropout, the RX overrun counter increments. 

 

So this is starting to become very frustrating.  I don't know if rolling back to 6.1.3 or 6.1.8 would help any.  I really don't want to go back to 5.X.  Or is the the XFS file system?  Or would buying a new NIC work?

 

You might also want to read through this thread:

 

    https://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=39350.0

 

I ended up solving the problem with the purchase of an Intel Network card.  This is the card that I bought:

 

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CY0P7G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[KYThrill]

Yes, I put an old PCI Intel Pro 1000GT card in it that I had, and it has been running two days with 0 ethernet errors.

 

I almost think it has to be the driver.  My second unRaid has been up for 6 months, and it has 5 HD security cameras that stream to it 24/7.  It has a Realtek 8168 and unRAID loads the Realtek driver for it.  It has had zero errrors with the Realtek.

 

Both systems have the same low power CPU (Sempron 145) and same amount/brand/model of RAM. 

 

I still get audio dropouts, but I've been charting them and I think I see a pattern emerging, but it is still too early and could be coincidence.  Since switch adapters, I've played six movies.  Two have had audio drops, both had TruHD audio tracks.  The dropouts happen randomly (never in the same place twice if you rewatch).  And both movies have been on Seagate drives in my unRAID.

 

I had another thread where I noticed my Seagate drives all had incrementing RAW read errors and Seek errors.  But after researching, everyone said this is normal, as long as the error correction number likewise increments.  But maybe it isn't such an innocent behavior as everyone thinks.

 

Another problem could be file corruption.  I played these movies back from disc, bit streaming through a PS4, and no dropouts (so I think my receiver is okay decoding and not a hardware error).  It could still be a failing DuneHD or something (but then you would think DTSMA would get streaming errors too).  So as soon as I get a chance, I am going to re-rip the offending films and overwrite them on the Dune to see if the error goes away.  It could be some kind of bit decay or errors from copying to migrate to XFS (even though all copies were CRC checked with the originals and passed when I migrated).

[Frank1940]

Yes, I put an old PCI Intel Pro 1000GT card in it that I had, and it has been running two days with 0 ethernet errors.

 

I almost think it has to be the driver.  My second unRaid has been up for 6 months, and it has 5 HD security cameras that stream to it 24/7.  It has a Realtek 8168 and unRAID loads the Realtek driver for it.  It has had zero errrors with the Realtek.

 

Both systems have the same low power CPU (Sempron 145) and same amount/brand/model of RAM. 

 

I still get audio dropouts, but I've been charting them and I think I see a pattern emerging, but it is still too early and could be coincidence.  Since switch adapters, I've played six movies.  Two have had audio drops, both had TruHD audio tracks.  The dropouts happen randomly (never in the same place twice if you rewatch).  And both movies have been on Seagate drives in my unRAID.

 

I had another thread where I noticed my Seagate drives all had incrementing RAW read errors and Seek errors.  But after researching, everyone said this is normal, as long as the error correction number likewise increments.  But maybe it isn't such an innocent behavior as everyone thinks.

 

Another problem could be file corruption.  I played these movies back from disc, bit streaming through a PS4, and no dropouts (so I think my receiver is okay decoding and not a hardware error).  It could still be a failing DuneHD or something (but then you would think DTSMA would get streaming errors too).  So as soon as I get a chance, I am going to re-rip the offending films and overwrite them on the Dune to see if the error goes away.  It could be some kind of bit decay or errors from copying to migrate to XFS (even though all copies were CRC checked with the originals and passed when I migrated).

 

OK, let's discuss this a bit.  Are you getting Receive 'Errors' or 'Drops'?  Drops (actually a dropped packet) are a minor issue at worst and are an indicator of a problem ONLY if one exists.  'Errors' are another issue.  Ignore the 'Drops' if that is what you are seeing.  If it's 'Errors' let's discuss that...

 

Basically, you are right about the RealTek driver that comes with ver6 of unRAID.  Back in the development phase (beta or RC) of ver 6, LimeTech made a change in the way the kernel was handling  processor functionality to optimize Dockers and VM's.  This had an impact with the RealTek driver with certain slow processors like  the Sempron.  (The RealTek NIC use the CPU to emulate hardware and is a performance hit on CPU performance.  That is way it so cheap! The Intel Network card does all of that work on that on the card!)  The only time this problem comes to the forefront is the playing of high bit-rate BluRay material. 

 

What I think is happening is that your media player's receive buffer starts to get empty and it floods the server with (unnecessary?) requests for data.  The RealTek driver generates an interrupt for each of these requests and the Sempron gets so overloaded servicing these requests, that its data delivery rate is slowed down and eventually you have a 'hole'.  If the hole is long enough, you may see it in the video but I have a feeling that with the very short ones, you (1) can hear the 'hole' or (2) the decoder loses lock and it takes a few mSec to relock. 

 

I can't recall if anyone else has tried the Intel PIC card (Today, it is more expensive than the PCIe card) so I can't really tell you if it solves the problem.  So you are moving into uncharted waters.  If you are in the U.S., you could try the PICe card using Amazon 30 day refund window. 

[allischalmersman]

Man I've been away from here a while.  I still have the issue and it happens using Plex too. Intel 1000 card did not fix my issue.  I believe its V6 that is causing it but I am nowhere near smart enough to figure it out and I don't think I can go back to V5.  Not sure what I will do at this point but it sure is frustrating.  Really odd that eliminating a switch seemed to help, but not solve the problem.  I need to get back into trying to trouble shoot the issue further.  I may make myself a 150' cat 5 cable and run it directly to the server and eliminate ALL switches just so I can be sure it's an UnRaid problem and not one of my switches.  I would even be willing to try another network media player but the fact that Plex on Xbox One has the same symptoms makes me believe it's not a issue with just the Dune

[RobJ]

There's a new tool worth trying, for all of you, the Tips and Tweaks plugin (actually see the list of new tools here).

 

There's a section on write caching settings, and NIC options to play with, many of which can affect streaming.  You may not find any help there, but I think it's likely one or more of the tweaks WILL help, worth a try anyway.  Let us know.