APC UPS. Need some advice.


Herdo

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I'm looking to add a UPS to my new build.  The APC UPS' seem to be recommended because unRAID can integrate with them easily.

 

I know I want pure sine wave and AVR.  Other than that though, I'm not sure what features I need or should be looking for exactly.

 

I've used a PSU calculator to determine full load.  In the calculation I've included what my unRAID server will eventually have.  12 HDDs, 2 SSDs, e3 - 1240v5, and I got 339W.  I even rounded it up to 400W to be safe.

 

From there I plugged in the load wattage into APCs UPS selector and I even added "20% Extra Power for future expansion", because why not, better safe than sorry.

 

Two UPS' stood out to me.

 

 

This first one is the SMC1000. 1000VA and 600W.  It says "11 minutes of runtime".  This appears to be APCs cheapest pure sine wave model.

 

http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/APC-Smart-UPS-C-1000VA-LCD-120V/P-SMC1000

 

 

 

 

And this one is the SMT750.  750VA and 500W.  It claims 7 minutes of runtime. 

 

http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/APC-Smart-UPS-750VA-LCD-120V/P-SMT750

 

 

 

I know the SMC models are considered inferior to the SMT models, but I'm not sure if the SMC is lacking features I may want.  The SMC offers a longer runtime, but I'm not too concerned with that because all I need this to do is safely shutdown the PC in the event of a power failure.  The prices are negligible;  the SMC is $253 on Amazon, and the SMT is $263 on Amazon.

 

So is there any reason I would chose one over the other?  Both seem to supply more than enough power for a clean shutdown.

 

 

Thanks.

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I think either one will do. But check if apcupsd is compatible and working with these models.

 

 

Good thinking, thank you.  It may be outdated, but at least at one point the apcupsd team recommened NOT getting the SMT750.  I think that settles that. :D

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I know you specified APC, but another option is the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD PFC Sinewave.  I have one on my system and it works fine.  Others on the board have also used it.  It connects via the usb port.  Every once and a while, very rarely, it will loose communications but will immediately be restored.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

EDIT:

I'm not sure if LT still plans on replacing APCUPSD with NUT, but it is shows as compatible with a couple of parameters not supported.

http://networkupstools.org/ddl/Cyber_Power_Systems/CP1500PFCLCD.html

 

 

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Is there any reason to not use NUT right now?

 

I was using the apcupsd plugin in R5.  When I moved to R6, I started using the built-in UPS support, which is apcupsd.

 

During the early phases of R6, there was discussions of introducing apcupsd as the initial package then replacing it with NUT in a later version.  I have not been following the plans on the evolution of the UPS support.  I was pointing out that CP1500PFCLCD is supported today by unRaid and that if they move to NUT it should continue to work.

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Ah OK, so everything works using the native UPS plugin, nice.

 

I've done some reading and it seems like the entire PFCLCD line should all be the same, the only difference being their runtime.  I'm thinking about the 1000VA version because I really don't need that much backup power.  I literally just need it to shut off right away in the event of a power failure.  The 1500VA version is practically triple the max wattage I would ever put on the system. 

 

Do you (or anyone else) know of any other differences between the two?

 

Thanks again for the help!

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In my research, I found that you have to really dig deep into the manufacturer's spec's and even the replacement parts lists to find out how these units ACTUALLY differ from one another.  Many times, all they do is beef-up the electronics to be able to deliver the extra load.  The battery packs and control boards are actually identical!  So, for example, the 800 VA unit will run exactly as long as the 1000VA unit will run at the same power load up to the 800VA rating.  The only difference is that the 800VA unit will turnoff INSTANTLY if the load hits (approximately) 807VA when it is on battery.  (This is required to protect the switching transistors in the inverter!)  Of course, this also means the 1000VA will actually run for a much shorter time at its 1000VA rated load than the 800VA unit at its rated 800VA.  If you want a longer run time and expecting to get it by buying a higher VA rated unit, you have really do your home work to make sure that there is a larger Ampere Hour battery in that unit.  (Batteries are the most expensive part of these units, are very heavy, and that raises packing and shipping costs so you really end up paying for that longer run time.)

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I've done some reading and it seems like the entire PFCLCD line should all be the same, the only difference being their runtime.

 

I don't think this is true.  I believe the 850/1000 are the same and the 1350/1500 are the same units with the difference being the battery capacity.  At least that is what I remember from my original research.

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I've done some reading and it seems like the entire PFCLCD line should all be the same, the only difference being their runtime.

 

I don't think this is true.  I believe the 850/1000 are the same and the 1350/1500 are the same units with the difference being the battery capacity.  At least that is what I remember from my original research.

 

Be careful.  Look at these two UPS's and the battery spec's by clicking on the "Technical Specifications" tab.

 

          http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/APC-Power-Saving-Back-UPS-Pro-1500/P-BR1500G

 

          http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/APC-Power-Saving-Back-UPS-Pro-1300/P-BR1300G

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  • 8 months later...

My old APC Backups UPS died so I went out and purchased a APC SMC1000 Smart UPS.  Unraid says it cannot communicate with it.  I've tried changing the cable type to USB, SMART, and one other option - to no avail.  I also played with the UPS type, Simple, etc, none of them work.

 

Can anyone confirm this APC SMC1000 will work with unraid and apcupsd?  If yes, what settings should I use?

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Ok, I got to working, sort of.  I had to put the USB cable to USB and I had to put USB Type as USB, even though I have a SmartUps.

 

The good thing is I have basic UPS support now for emergency shutdowns, but the UPS status only shows how much the battery is charged and expected run time.  The other information is missing, like Load.  With a Smartup UPS, I should have all of the information.

 

I tried all other settings for both cable type and UPS type, and all fail and will not even work, except the above mentioned settings.

 

Any idea why unraid cannot talk to this Smartups?  Why would we have a APCSMART option if it doesn't work?

 

On the back of this UPS, there also a DATA cable (RJ45 style to USB - which APC has used for years).  So i have both USB and this DATA port.  Because it came with the USB cable, that is what I connected.  I think I could dig up a APC data cable - should I try that and use that port instead of the USB port?

 

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On the UPS settings, on the right side near the top (just under the status line, you will see a link to the online manual for apcupsd manual.  I would suggest that you go the 'Bible' and see if you can find the answers to your questions.  There is a whole section on Configuration settings.   Or you could try the APC forums (I assume that they have one) and see if someone there has an answer.

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On 2017-5-1 at 11:14 PM, Switchblade said:

My old APC Backups UPS died so I went out and purchased a APC SMC1000 Smart UPS.  Unraid says it cannot communicate with it.  I've tried changing the cable type to USB, SMART, and one other option - to no avail.  I also played with the UPS type, Simple, etc, none of them work.

 

Can anyone confirm this APC SMC1000 will work with unraid and apcupsd?  If yes, what settings should I use?

 

Please see my post on getting the APC SMC 1500 UPS working....

 

 

Edited by Zangief
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/3/2017 at 3:38 PM, Switchblade said:

Ok, I got to working, sort of.  I had to put the USB cable to USB and I had to put USB Type as USB, even though I have a SmartUps.

 

The good thing is I have basic UPS support now for emergency shutdowns, but the UPS status only shows how much the battery is charged and expected run time.  The other information is missing, like Load.  With a Smartup UPS, I should have all of the information.

 

I tried all other settings for both cable type and UPS type, and all fail and will not even work, except the above mentioned settings.

 

Any idea why unraid cannot talk to this Smartups?  Why would we have a APCSMART option if it doesn't work?

 

On the back of this UPS, there also a DATA cable (RJ45 style to USB - which APC has used for years).  So i have both USB and this DATA port.  Because it came with the USB cable, that is what I connected.  I think I could dig up a APC data cable - should I try that and use that port instead of the USB port?

 

 

Thanks Zangief for the additional information.  I was hoping to get this to work in  Smart settings and I still do not understand why it won't work.  But as you pointed out, at least I have it working so it will shutdown my server if the power goes out.

 

Has anyone got their APC Smartups ups to work with unraid using cable type as Smart and ups type as APCsmart?  I expect that if that can work, it would show the missing data on the status line., Load, Load %, etc.   If this doesn't work and we all have to use regular usb cable with type and cable as USB, then why are they even listed in the drop down list?

 

 

upsstatus.JPG

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apcsmart
The 'apcsmart' protocol uses an RS232 serial connection to pass commands back and forth in a primitive language resembling modem-control codes. APC calls this language "UPS-Link". Originally introduced for Smart-UPS models (thus the name 'apcsmart'), this class of UPS is in decline, rapidly being replaced in APC's product line by USB and MODBUS UPSes.
 

http://www.apcupsd.org/manual/manual.html#supported-upses-and-cables

 

I think APC SMART ups not mean all item will be same/exist, my one will show "Load%" but no "Load" item, this same under "PowerChute Business".

In unRAID most item could be show as below.

 

ups.png

 

I also have 2 "Back ups", both also have different item show.

 

Edited by Benson
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  • 7 months later...

Hi Guys... sorry to bring this thread back to life...  I'm from Brazil and I bought an local brand of UPS and I'm trying to configurate it on Unraid (but no luck)

The UPS have an USB connection and comes with it's own software for monitoring and it works fine on windows. I've tryed millions of combinations on UPS settings on UNRAID, but nothing seems to work..

Can some one give me a little hand on this? i can post all configuration files regarding the original software if it might help

 

 

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Hi Squid... what a honor get a msg from you....

I try NUT but no luck either...

i got some info about the USB, hope that might give us a clue...  I'm very noob regarding Linux and all so, please be patient....

 

Bus 005 Device 002: ID 04d8:000a Microchip Technology, Inc. CDC RS-232 Emulation Demo
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            2 Communications
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0         8
  idVendor           0x04d8 Microchip Technology, Inc.
  idProduct          0x000a CDC RS-232 Emulation Demo
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 Ragtech Sistemas de Energia
  iProduct                2 USB Serial Port
  iSerial                 0
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength           67
    bNumInterfaces          2
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          0
    bmAttributes         0xc0
      Self Powered
    MaxPower              100mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         2 Communications
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Abstract (modem)
      bInterfaceProtocol      1 AT-commands (v.25ter)
      iInterface              0
      CDC Header:
        bcdCDC               1.10
      CDC ACM:
        bmCapabilities       0x02
          line coding and serial state
      CDC Union:
        bMasterInterface        0
        bSlaveInterface         1
      CDC Call Management:
        bmCapabilities       0x00
        bDataInterface          1
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0008  1x 8 bytes
        bInterval               2
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        1
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           2
      bInterfaceClass        10 CDC Data
      bInterfaceSubClass      0
      bInterfaceProtocol      0
      iInterface              0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x03  EP 3 OUT
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x83  EP 3 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
can't get device qualifier: Resource temporarily unavailable
can't get debug descriptor: Resource temporarily unavailable
Device Status:     0x0001
  Self Powered

 

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2 hours ago, ozzylins said:

RS-232

 

2 hours ago, ozzylins said:

Abstract (modem)

 

2 hours ago, ozzylins said:

AT-commands

The above would be my best guess, as it appears that the UPS is actually communicating as if it were a modem via AT commands.

 

If the UPS isn't compatible with APCUPSD or NUT (which is rare for "named" UPS's) then you're probably going to be SOL.  You'd almost be better off if the UPS has an actual RS232 port (and the server has one) in communicating via that instead of over USB

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sorry, SOL means? 

 

Regarding RS232 port, yes the UPS has it, but my motherboard doesn't...  i can buy a PCI card, but how can i be sure that it will work ? 

 

I try to pass thought the usb to a windows VM and didn't work..  i was hoping to create a windows xp vm with windows software running and try to shutdown the server thru CMD or URL...

 

I attached all CFG files used on the windows to see if we can get any clue...  thanks again for the help Squid

 

any language problems translate from Portuguese (Brazil)  to English

Supervise.rar

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8 minutes ago, ozzylins said:

sorry, SOL means? 

English colloquialism   https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SOL

 

10 minutes ago, ozzylins said:

i can buy a PCI card, but how can i be sure that it will work ?

Most likely it will not, as I have yet to see any add-on PCIe / PCI serial card detected as a standard COM port which doesn't require drivers.

 

11 minutes ago, ozzylins said:

i was hoping to create a windows xp vm with windows software running and try to shutdown the server thru CMD or URL...

That would probably work, if you install apcupsd on Windows, and then configure apcupsd on unRaid to act as a slave to the version running on Windows.  Would be a pain in the ass though.

 

13 minutes ago, ozzylins said:

I try to pass thought the usb to a windows VM and didn't work..

I would think that it would, especially if you also passthrough a USB controller

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