Hi I am looking for some help on upgrading my system from 4.7. 

 

It has run flawlessly for 5.5 years.  Is this case of if it ain't broke don't fix it or all the improvements are worth it. 

 

My current system:

 

Unraid 4.7 Pro License

AMD Sempron 145 Processor

MSI 880GMA-B36

RAM 4 GB

2 ICY DOCK 4 in 3 tray-less MB454SPF-B 4

Azza Helios 910 case

Antec 520C power supply with 6 SATA and 6 Molex connectors

6 2TB Samsung Drives and 1 parity drive (5400 RPM) Sata 3

1 1TB Samsung  cache

JBOD configuration

2 open slots in the icy docs

 

With this system, I love the case as nothing ever overheats. The highest temp I have seen on the drive is 29c when doing a full parity check. They are usually in the 24 - 26c range when active in regular use.

 

I am planning on replacing my 2 TB drives w 4 TB Seagate Ironwolf 5900 RPM, Sata 6.  This is a must do as the Samsung drives are reaching then end of their life cycle.  Since drives are cheap, I maintain backups for my data drives. Because this is unraid, I only back them up once a year. My current method takes a couple of days to copy each drive so I need to find a better method to back these up. I am currently using NTFS  drives on a networked PC so it is slow going. With 4 TB drives it may take 4 or 5 days each.

 

I plan on replacing the fans in the case as they have run continuously all these years (it may be cheaper to replace the case.)

 

I am open to all thoughts and suggestions to upgrading.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

You must upgrade to at least v5 to get support for drives larger than you currently have. And since v5 isn't available from the download page anymore it might be just as well to at least try v6. Your current hardware may not be enough for much more than the NAS features, but v6 is even a better NAS than previous versions.

 

Study the Upgrading to V6 sticky linked in my sig. And be sure to ask if you have more questions.

 

*edit* And you will have better support from the forum if you upgrade. Most of us haven't seen 4.7 in quite a few years.

...

It has run flawlessly for 5.5 years.  Is this case of if it ain't broke don't fix it or all the improvements are worth it. 

 

From a pure NAS perspective, v4.7 still works just fine.  But the newest version has a lot of security improvements and certainly a much nicer GUI interface.    And a lot of "missing" functionality is now built in -- UPS support, notifications, etc.

 

 

...

I am planning on replacing my 2 TB drives w 4 TB Seagate Ironwolf 5900 RPM, Sata 6.

 

This is the compelling case for updating your version => v4.7 doesn't support drives > 2TB ... so you have no choice about updating if you want to use the larger drives.

 

 

... I maintain backups for my data drives. Because this is unraid, I only back them up once a year. My current method takes a couple of days to copy each drive so I need to find a better method to back these up. I am currently using NTFS  drives on a networked PC so it is slow going. With 4 TB drives it may take 4 or 5 days each.

 

Backups are important, but once/year is a bit far between them.  You may want to reconsider your backup strategy.  Depending on how often you add content to the server, there are other ways to maintain a complete set of backups.  e.g. on my media server, I maintain a "current backup drive" attached to my main PC, and copy anything I add to the server to this drive.  Whenever the current backup drive gets full, I replace it with another one ... and I simply store all of the backup drives in a fireproof, water-proof, data-rated safe.  So I never actually do a copy of the UnRAID drives themselves.    But even if that's what you want to do, it's not really a big deal to do that -- as long as your network is a Gb network (if it's not, THAT would be a BIG improvement), it shouldn't take more than perhaps 2 days/disk to copy a 4TB drive to an external USB v2 drive adapter (which I assume is what you're using for your backup drives).  ... that sounds like a long time, but it's only a couple minutes of "your time" -- and then it's all "computer time" with no interaction needed on your part.    And if you're maintaining same-size drives and backup up "by drive" it can be MUCH quicker -- just use a synchronization utility (e.g. SyncBack) to do the copies, and only new or changed files will copied to the backup drive -- this will likely reduce the copy time to no more than a few minutes/drive after your initial backups.

 

As for "upgrading" from v4.7 -- I simply wouldn't do it as an "upgrade".

 

If you want to move to v6, I'd start with a "clean" v6 flash drive.

 

BEFORE you start, do a parity check and confirm your system is error-free.    If you have any issues, fix them BEFORE you start doing the upgrade.

 

Then just dow the following:

 

(a)  Save an image of your Web GUI page that shows all of your current disk assignments.

 

(b)  Backup your complete flash drive to a folder on your PC.  Be CERTAIN you have saved your key file.

 

©  Reformat your flash drive -- be sure it's FAT32 and labeled "UNRAID" -- and then put the latest v6 download on it.    Run MakeBootable as an administrator; and copy your key file to the config folder.

 

(d)  Boot to v6; then assign all of your drives to the same position they were in before -- and check the "parity is already valid" box.

Then Start the array and you should be ready to go.    You will need to go to the Tools tab and run New Permissions ... then you should be up-and-running with v6.    Your CPU is very low-powered for the demands of v6, so I would go to Settings - Display settings and set the Page Update frequency to "Disabled".    This will help a good bit, and should make the performance okay for a NAS.  There are a few other "tweaks" that you can try after you've got it up and running.

 

 

As for the Performance mention on your processor I came from a Sempron 140 and I didn't run any Dockers just some basic Plugins and everything ran just fine. Keep in mind I was transcoding or anything fancy.

Is it worth the jump from 4.7 to 6? Very much. The interface is much cleaner and the amount of plugins and built in tools more than makes up for it.

Your Sempron 145 will work just fine if you don't go to dual parity.  You could have an issue with streaming 1080p BluRay content if you have RealTek NIC.  (IF you do, just put in an cheap Intel NIC card.) 

 

Be sure to setup the e-mail notifications.  That will alert you to any potential issues.  And be sure that you get an UPS.  Those two items will save you from 90% of the  grief that we see here...

 

EDIT: you might want to get a new USB Flash Drive as yours is probably quite old.  Put the old .key file in the config folder and use the built-in key replacement procedure to get a new .key file.

Agree with Frank's suggestion r.e. using a new flash drive -- with the new automated key replacement it's VERY simple to move your key to the new flash drive ... as he noted you just put your old key on the drive; then follow the automated process.

 

Thank-you for all your advice, it is very helpful.

 

Well that makes it clear that 4.7 isn't going to do what I need.

 

I am wondering if it would be easier to replace the internals of my system.  It isn't a big deal to replace the mother board, CPU and RAM. The data is sound on the current drives so I would think that doing upgrades on hardware wouldn't affect the drives.  These components are 5.5 years old, while the work fine right now the question is how much longer are they going perform well. I think while I am digging into the the system it is best to get it fixed before I have a serious problem. Since this has been so reliable I tend to forget all the how to's over time and have to relearn everything again. Is there a recommendation for hardware that will meet my needs for V6 and perhaps v7 without breaking the bank? In other words, a practical solution. I don't foresee going much further than using this a a NAS set up but with all the new bells and whistles who knows. With Version 6 there is so much more that I can do, that until now I haven't thought about. Should I upgrade to v6 before making hardware changes or do it all at the same time? 

 

garycase:

Thanks for the advice on the backup method that you use. That is much easier than what I am doing now. I maintain two backups, 1 onsite and 1 offsite.  I certainly have plenty of drives and I grow my database by 2 TB per year currently.

 

 

Should I upgrade to v6 before making hardware changes or do it all at the same time? 

First rule of troubleshooting. Only change one thing at a time.

 

And since it seems like your current hardware will support v6, I would do the v6 upgrade first. Then you (and we) will be in a better position to troubleshoot any issues you have with the hardware upgrade.

Should I upgrade to v6 before making hardware changes or do it all at the same time? 

First rule of troubleshooting. Only change one thing at a time.

 

And since it seems like your current hardware will support v6, I would do the v6 upgrade first. Then you (and we) will be in a better position to troubleshoot any issues you have with the hardware upgrade.

 

First thing!  I agree with trurl, one change at a time!!!  Now on the the reason for this post, you can look in my signature for two systems that I upgraded in the past two months from Sempron CPU's.  (Both were running version 6 at the time of the upgrade.)  I run a basic NAS operation but the i3 has more than enough horsepower to run a lot of Dockers and should be able to transcode two 1080p streams using Plex at one time if needed.  I would suggest a minimum of 8GB of RAM as the cost differential between 4 and 8 is not that great.  That may be the biggest future proofing suggestion for low-end systems. 

 

As a complete aside, I had some problems with the LGA 1151 system with bent pins on the CPU socket on two different MB's!  The third one was the charm.  I don't know quite what the issue was on the first two boards but when I got the third, I first inspected the socket with a magnifying glass.  Then I installed the CPU.  I then bent the tabs of the backplate to make it easier to get the MB installed in the case.  (Some folks just throw that backplate away to avoid the hassle of installing the MB using it.) Then I installed the Intel CPU cooler.  Apparently, the substrate of the circuit board  for the LGA1151 that the Intel CPU  is actually mounted on is about 25% thinner than the LGA1150.  This may allow the board to flex if you handle the board by the CPU cooler which could bend the pins.  (Intel actually suggests installing the cooler BEFORE mounting the MB into the case.  Google something 'bent pins on LGA1151' if you are interested in horror stories...)

Thanks Trurl and Frank, I will upgrade to V6 first on my current system. I am sure there will be more questions as I go through the process.

 

It has been my experience that I have had greater success with AMD products than Intel.  They may have fixed the problems I had years ago but AMD has been very reliable for me.  I feel they same way with Western Digital drives they used to be so noisy and I had a number of failures I ended up with Samsung (happily and now that Seagate has bought them and are apparently using their technology) so, I am planing on using Seagate's this time. I know everyone has their horror stories about drive manufacturers.

 

What I did was research how much I could push my current system and garycase pointed me to my motherboard and I was able to pull my single core Sempron 140 and I dropped in an Athlon X4 630 and now I'm rocking [email protected] vs [email protected]. Doubled my Ram and slapped on a new Cooler. I think I invested $80 or so.

 

I dropped in the RAM first and did some testing and was satisfied. A week or so later I dropped in my new to me Processor and beat it up some and so far its been humming along.

Thanks Trurl and Frank, I will upgrade to V6 first on my current system. I am sure there will be more questions as I go through the process.

 

It has been my experience that I have had greater success with AMD products than Intel.  They may have fixed the problems I had years ago but AMD has been very reliable for me.  I feel they same way with Western Digital drives they used to be so noisy and I had a number of failures I ended up with Samsung (happily and now that Seagate has bought them and are apparently using their technology) so, I am planing on using Seagate's this time. I know everyone has their horror stories about drive manufacturers.

 

The problem with AMD is that most of their current chips is that they have very powerful GPU's on board and mediocre CPU's.  A basic NAS has no use for any of the GPU horsepower.  The current Intel is basically the reverse of that scenario with a powerful CPU and a mediocre GPU.  Plus, that LGA 1151 i3 idles at 24W.  The LGA1150 is at about 51W and I should have a good look to see why one of these days. 

... that LGA 1151 i3 idles at 24W.  The LGA1150 is at about 51W and I should have a good look to see why one of these days.

 

Yes, the Socket 1151 systems are VERY power-efficient.  I built a very-nicely-configured Core i7 system for my wife, and it idles at ~ 25 watts.  Skylake and Kaby Lake units are very focused on minimizing power draw.

 

 

On the other hand, the problem with Intel is that the motherboards and processors are considerably more expensive than AMD. I don't see a problem with having a GPU that's more powerful than is strictly needed. All modern processors have plenty of silicon that's underused.

On the other hand, the problem with Intel is that the motherboards and processors are considerably more expensive than AMD. I don't see a problem with having a GPU that's more powerful than is strictly needed. All modern processors have plenty of silicon that's underused.

 

"... considerably more expensive ..." is a matter of perspective.  When you consider the total cost of building a system, it's not really all that much more (perhaps an extra $100-200) ... and you generally get significantly higher performance and lower power consumption in the bargain.  For example, for a high-performance system you might use an 8-core AMD FX-8350, which costs $148 (at Newegg), has a 125w TDP, and scores 8937 on PassMark.    A quad-core Kaby Lake i5-7600 costs $230 ($83 more than the FX-8350), has a 65w TDP, and scores 8968 on PassMark.    The single-core performance of the FX-8350 is 1505 on PassMark, compared to the single-core performance for the i5-7600 of 2322.

 

So with the Intel chip you get FAR higher single-core performance;  better overall performance when using all cores;  use half the power at high CPU loads; and will idle at FAR lower wattage than with the AMD chip.    Yes, it costs $82 more ... but I'd hardly call that "considerably more expensive" considering the benefits of the Intel chip.

 

... and if you want even more power, a Kaby Lake 7700K for an additional $120 scores 12189 on Passmark; has a single-core rating of 2592; and a TDP of 91w -- still well below the FX-8350.    Nothing AMD makes comes close to this level of performance.

 

 

 

 

I don't want to get into a tedious discussion about AMD versus Intel any more than I want to get into a tedious discussion about Western Digital versus Seagate. Either is perfectly good for what the OP has indicated he wants to do.

 

Nothing AMD makes comes close to this level of performance.

 

That might well be about to change.

 

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments. 

 

As a matter of fact Gary, I have an AMD FX 8350 on an Asus M5A99FX Pro R2.0 wit 16 MB RAM with a huge Noctua cooler in my windows machine running ver. 7. After I finish upgrading my server I plan on converting this to a Linux machine and hopefully be done with Microsoft. This choice allows me to analyze 8 songs simultaneously with RAM to spare.  With 72,000 now and growing that will take awhile. 

 

I really don't mind hearing about the ongoing debate between hardware vendors as this is always enlightening and informative. While the debates rage on, the issues do change  and as a result I have moved back and forth between vendors based on my applications. The best way I know how to look at this is how much the PC world has changed over the past 20 years. Microsoft was the only game in town then, not anymore. 

 

I am looking for guidance on current state of hardware and the pros and cons of various products. Real field experience is gold to me rather than listen to uninformed sales people.  I have previously expressed my current hardware leanings from my research prior to building my Windows machine 18 mos. ago.  This was the method I used to select unRaid 6 years ago. It was the best choice then and it is still the best choice.

 

Like most people, I want a Ferrari with a VW price tag. It is nice to look good commuting but at the end of the day I need an economical commuter car. I will spend the money, if I can get tangible benefits. Having my system run cool is a big plus for longevity and reliability. The question becomes in a NAS application is the primary concern for me isn't computing or graphics. What I am interested in is the network speed and how many movies/music can be played simultaneously and the read write time of data to my green hard drives. At what point is it going to be necessary to go from 5900 RPM drives to 7200 RPM? At what point will I need to go 7200 RPM drives because of capacity? This is a simplistic view but I need a very good traffic cop as I see it now.

 

I have been looking at all the new capabilities in 6, I will want to play with them and figure out how to integrate them with my system and as a result, I want to be sure that I have the horsepower and RAM to accommodate growth and expanding into new applications.  As I have said I have been side tracked on other thing the last few years and I have a lot of catching up to do.