Preclear plugin


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11 hours ago, witalit said:

 

What other tools can someone recommend? I mean for me I am on 6.4 anyways so plugin still works. I understand what you mean though as unRAID now can pre-clear disk for me but for stress test it is not a mandatory plugin.

 

There are a variety of tools that work well for testing disks.   If you have a Windows box with a spare SATA port or an eSATA or USB3 dock you can easily test any new disks on that.   I do this using WD's Data Lifeguard utility (works fine with any manufacturer's drives) ... but you can also use the testing utility from the manufacturer of your disk if you prefer.

 

Note that pre-clear can still be used for this purpose as well if you want to use your UnRAID system as your testing box.

 

But as already noted, pre-clear is NOT needed anymore for the primary purpose it was developed (over a decade ago !!) ... which was to eliminate the down time you would have on a server while it was clearing a new disk.    v6 of UnRAID clears the disk automatically BEFORE it is added to the protected array; so the array functionality is not impacted at all by adding new disks to it.    When Joe L developed pre-clear, he did include a bunch of activity to test the drives; but the primary reason was to have a new drive zeroed before it was added to the array -- and he coordinated with Tom to include a "pre-clear signature", so UnRAID would know this drive could be quickly added.    That functionality still works; but is simply not needed any more.

 

Other than Data Lifeguard, you could use Seagate's SeaTools,  SamSung's HUtil,  HGST's Drive Fitness Test,  or any of a variety of 3rd party tools like HDDScan,  DiskCheckup, 

HD Tune,  Crystal Disk, etc.

 

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https://lime-technology.com/forums/topic/54648-preclear-plugin/?page=72&tab=comments#comment-632655

 

I just finished preclearing a disk using the above version of the preclear plugin on unRAID version 6.5.0-rc3.  I would guess (at this point) that it will work on all versions of 6.5.0 as this upgrade series appears to be mostly about the microcode fixes required for the spectre and meltdown concerns. 

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3 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

https://lime-technology.com/forums/topic/54648-preclear-plugin/?page=72&tab=comments#comment-632655

 

I just finished preclearing a disk using the above version of the preclear plugin on unRAID version 6.5.0-rc3.  I would guess (at this point) that it will work on all versions of 6.5.0 as this upgrade series appears to be mostly about the microcode fixes required for the spectre and meltdown concerns. 

Unfortunately this is probably a short term fix at best for several reasons:

  • It is not a necessary to clear disks with preclear.  unRAID handles clearing a disk without taking the array offline as in the past.
  • This plugin has been tagged as not compatible with 6.4 and later versions of unRAID.
  • There are style sheets in the plugin that replace some of the built in unRAID style sheets and break other things.
  • The 6.5 series of releases has warnings from php 7.2 turned off for the moment.  Those of us actively supporting plugins are fixing these warnings in our plugins now.  Eventually as the next versions of php are released, the warnings will be errors and preclear may fail unless the plugin code is actively supported.  Changes may have to be made to address the php errors.  Right now the warnings are an annoyance if turned on and appear in the webgui, later they will be failures.
  • Some changes need to be made to address issues that some users have experienced and there is no one actively supporting the plugin to make these changes.
  • I doubt any other plugin author will adopt this plugin because it is not necessary for unRAID operation.  Those wishing to pound on a disk just to make yourself feel good can find other tools to do the same thing.  It is my understanding that the preclear script is still working.
  • It has been more trouble that it is worth.
  • As the supporter of UD, I can no longer offer any assistance or support for the plugin and don't appreciate the kludge offered here because I will end up with support requests I don't have the time or patience to deal with.
  • UD will eventually be incorporated into the unRAID core and any preclear hooks in UD will probably be removed.

I know those of you that carry the preclear banner will not like what I have said here, but preclear is on it's way out.  Find another way!

Edited by dlandon
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Additionally, it should also be noted that having a plugin installed which is explicitly tagged as being incompatible may also impact your ability (depending upon your problem) to get support for any other problems you may have on your server.  Especially in this case, since Preclear does inject code into each and every page on unRaid's UI

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1 minute ago, CHBMB said:

I'd be in favour of one final post explaining this is dead and locking the thread tbh.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
 

Agreed.  It's best to not set an expectation for new users about a non-compatible plugin that will just frustrate them.

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3 minutes ago, CHBMB said:

I'd be in favour of one final post explaining this is dead and locking the thread tbh.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
 

 

I think that is a bit dictatorial.  (Here's a new avatar for you).  But, having a mod dropping a note on the OP would be a good thing.  Additionally, having this thread pinned doesn't really send the right message

 

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38 minutes ago, pluginCop said:

Additionally, it should also be noted that having a plugin installed which is explicitly tagged as being incompatible may also impact your ability (depending upon your problem) to get support for any other problems you may have on your server.  Especially in this case, since Preclear does inject code into each and every page on unRaid's UI

Edited to add that.

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I think that is a bit dictatorial.  (Here's a new avatar for you).  But, having a mod dropping a note on the OP would be a good thing.  Additionally, having this thread pinned doesn't really send the right message
 
We've got a plugin that doesn't work, with a dev that's to all intents and purposes missing, who may log in once a week, but hasn't posted on the thread, and preclear is a process that many, if not all, of the "learned" members think is an unnecessary process.

It's causing a ton of confusion and cludge like fixes are appearing.

I'm not generally dictatorial in my approach, but just shut the damn thing down is my vote.

You can link to the source code if someone wants to fork it and maintain it, but it would at least send a coherent message about where we are with preclear in 2018.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

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Just now, CHBMB said:

We've got a plugin that doesn't work, with a dev that's to all intents and purposes missing, who may log in once a week, but hasn't posted on the thread, and preclear is a process that many, if not all, of the "learned" members think is an unnecessary process.

It's causing a ton of confusion and cludge like fixes are appearing.

I'm not generally dictatorial in my approach, but just shut the damn thing down is my vote.

You can link to the source code if someone wants to fork it and maintain it, but it would at least send a coherent message about where we are with preclear in 2018.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
 

Not disagreeing with you on any of the points.  It was the locking of the thread that I had problems with.

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Not disagreeing with you on any of the points.  It was the locking of the thread that I had problems with.
The whole point of locking the thread was so the final message could be that it is no longer necessary, we all know how there's a significant proportion of support posts in dedicated threads where the poster doesn't read the post above....

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

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1 minute ago, Squid said:

Not disagreeing with you on any of the points.  It was the locking of the thread that I had problems with.

I like the idea of not pinning this thread and then mark the title as deprecated.

 

4 minutes ago, CHBMB said:

It's causing a ton of confusion and cludge like fixes are appearing.

I'm not generally dictatorial in my approach, but just shut the damn thing down is my vote.

As I said, it is causing more problems than it is worth.  The kludges being offered are setting the stage for some problems.

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Does anyone fancy writing a simple disk testing plugin then? Something that runs, say, badblocks for a number of cycles and produces a pass/fail report at the end. Something that everyone can easily use and understand. Ideally something that gives confidence to newbies while also providing useful information to seasoned users, because there are numerous references to the good practice of testing disks (with preclear) throughout this board.

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2 minutes ago, John_M said:

Does anyone fancy writing a simple disk testing plugin then? Something that runs, say, badblocks for a number of cycles and produces a pass/fail report at the end. Something that everyone can easily use and understand. Ideally something that gives confidence to newbies while also providing useful information to seasoned users, because there are numerous references to the good practice of testing disks (with preclear) throughout this board.

To be quite honest, after the fiasco that the preclear plugin has been since day #1 I don't believe that any of the plugin guys are going to want to go there with a ten foot pole.  Numerous other tools exist to test a drive (including the SMART extended tests)

 

If you review the Preclear thread, its all about why doesn't the plugin work and why does it cause problems in other parts of unRaid vs why doesn't the drive pass the tests.  Personally, I myself don't need the aggravation.

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11 minutes ago, bonienl said:

It would help if some comments are added to the opening post. Most new users will start reading the first post which doesn't give any clue.

 

A message in the first post by LT officially stating it is un-necessary and can cause problems would go a long way.

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Just now, Squid said:

To be quite honest, after the fiasco that the preclear plugin has been since day #1 I don't believe that any of the plugin guys are going to want to go there with a ten foot pole.  Numerous other tools exist to test a drive (including the SMART extended tests)

 

If you review the Preclear thread, its all about why doesn't the plugin work and why does it cause problems in other parts of unRaid vs why doesn't the drive pass the tests.  Personally, I myself don't need the aggravation.

What he said.  I won't touch the plugin.

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Well, I wasn't suggesting that anyone take on the preclear plugin. I was suggesting something much simpler. I'm happy to use badblocks from the command line and the extended SMART self-test but that's not so straightforward for the new user to get his head round.

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2 minutes ago, John_M said:

Well, I wasn't suggesting that anyone take on the preclear plugin. I was suggesting something much simpler. I'm happy to use badblocks from the command line and the extended SMART self-test but that's not so straightforward for the new user to get his head round.

Seems pretty simple to me:

5a9c28dbb11e3_SmartTest.png.0075f228be711a3c64f023aa9f132677.png

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4 minutes ago, John_M said:

I was suggesting something much simpler.

I realized that.  Was speaking in general terms that the example of the preclear plugin has seriously tainted myself at least considering doing a replacement, no matter how simple.

 

3 minutes ago, John_M said:

We all know that the SMART self-tests are read only.

Except that adding a drive to an existing array or rebuilding the drive involves writes to every sector.  A SMART self test after that effectively does what preclear did.

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2 minutes ago, Squid said:

Except that adding a drive to an existing array or rebuilding the drive involves writes to every sector.  A SMART self test after that effectively does what preclear did.

Then if there are any issues with the reading of the drive, the disk notifications would let you know and you wouldn't have to look at the smart report.

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