Anybody planning a Ryzen build?


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I still need to have C-State disabled, but have been stable for the last 15 days, 11 hours, 8 mins.   Asus released another BIOS update for my motherboard and I'm looking to add another HD to my system.  Once I purchase the drive, hopefully before the weekend, the plan is to shut the system down, add the HD, update the BIOS, enable C-State and check to see if the system is stable with C-State enabled.  If not, I'll upgrade to rc8q and again, see if it's stable with C-State enabled, otherwise, I'll just leave C-State disabled until the next round of BIOS / unRAID updates are released.  

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On 9/13/2017 at 0:19 PM, luisv said:

I still need to have C-State disabled, but have been stable for the last 15 days, 11 hours, 8 mins.   Asus released another BIOS update for my motherboard and I'm looking to add another HD to my system.  Once I purchase the drive, hopefully before the weekend, the plan is to shut the system down, add the HD, update the BIOS, enable C-State and check to see if the system is stable with C-State enabled.  If not, I'll upgrade to rc8q and again, see if it's stable with C-State enabled, otherwise, I'll just leave C-State disabled until the next round of BIOS / unRAID updates are released.  

 

When not using C state what error do you see? does the VM crash and then you cannot restart the VM due to a PCI error until rebooting unraid? if so that may be the issue I have just started to see on my VM when leaving on overnight.. Im already on rc8q and latest bios for my Aorus Gaming5.

Edited by Tyranian
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When C-State is enabled, with or without running VMs, dockers, etc, the system appears to have the original Ryzen issue of going into a "sleep" state with no way of "waking" it up.  No display, no connection to the network, NIC LEDs slowly blink orange in unison as if the NIC is in some sort of power saving mode, zero response overall... only option is a hard shutdown via the power or reset button.  After I disable C-State, it's stable... 16 days, 14 hours and 17 mins as of right now.  Just an observation, but shortly after I upgraded to rc7a, the system appeared stable for a few days, so I added a dual port Intel NIC (setup as bonded 802.3ad) as well as applied the 0810 BIOS from Asus.  I have managed switches, so the ports are set to link aggregate.  Might be a coincidence, might be the NIC driver or possibly the 8010 BIOS... not sure as disabling C-State worked, so I left it alone. 

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Then if it helps I'm stable in general other then the VM at the moment which has just started crashing after a day or so of usage now I've finished setting it up, I have C-state enabled and my suffers no other types of crashes then the VM one.

 

I'm using Ryzen 1600 & Gigabyte Gaming 5 Mobo with F8 bios.

 

There is now a AGESA 1.0.0.6b bios so may try that next.

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7 hours ago, Thejack59 said:

I'm planning to build a Ryzen Unraid. I just have one question :

Do you have any return about ECC Ram ? 

 

Thanks :)

 

ECC support is not disabled in Ryzen processors but AFAIK none of the AM4 motherboard manufacturers has implemented it yet. Some claim that ECC RAM can be used but without the ECC function, while others won't POST if ECC RAM is installed. Perhaps one of them will release a serious (i.e. non-gaming) board eventually. I'd like to see Supermicro step in but they are only supporting Epyc at the moment.

 

There's a little information here.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Is the change between NPT on or off transparent to the guest?  If I setup a new ryzen environment and get it working when and if a fix is released to allow NPT and GPU passthrough can I just change the settings or will Windows guests have issues and need to be rebuilt.  I have to decide if I'm going to keep my new Ryzen box or not.  ;(

 

Thanks.

Edited by dimes007
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On 9/26/2017 at 11:52 AM, dimes007 said:

Is the change between NPT on or off transparent to the guest?  If I setup a new ryzen environment and get it working when and if a fix is released to allow NPT and GPU passthrough can I just change the settings or will Windows guests have issues and need to be rebuilt.  I have to decide if I'm going to keep my new Ryzen box or not.  ;(

 

Thanks.

It's been quite a while since I've touched this, but I'm fairly certain NPT can be toggled without changes to the VMs.

 

NPT is a host hardware setting, not something you apply to virtual hardware on the guest.

As such, while performance will differ, as far as the VM is concerned, nothing has changed.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Well, bad news... The MSI X399 Gaming Pro Carbon AC motherboard has no option in BIOS to enable SVM.  Without that option, the kvm-amd module won't load saying 'Operation not supported' and logs 'kvm: disabled by bios' to syslog.

 

Same issue on another MSI board: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1456273

(I can confirm my board also sets the SVMDIS+LOCK flag which is why kvm-amd is failing to load)

 

I already reported this issue to MSI who has forwarded it on to their bios engineers.  Will report back when I have a update.

 

I Guess there's nothing new on this? Kinda sucks that the board itself isn't working for KVM....

 

Really wanna get a ryzen rather than coffee or skylake x to upgrade my Haswell i5 build

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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8 minutes ago, ars92 said:

 

I Guess there's nothing new on this? Kinda sucks that the board itself isn't working for KVM....

 

Really wanna get a ryzen rather than coffee or skylake x to upgrade my Haswell i5 build emoji20.png

 

MSI did end up releasing a BIOS update that allows one to enable SVM (sorry, I must have posted on another forum about this).

 

I moved my development VM on to this Threadripper machine (no GPU passthrough) and performance is great.

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ECC support is not disabled in Ryzen processors but AFAIK none of the AM4 motherboard manufacturers has implemented it yet. Some claim that ECC RAM can be used but without the ECC function, while others won't POST if ECC RAM is installed. Perhaps one of them will release a serious (i.e. non-gaming) board eventually. I'd like to see Supermicro step in but they are only supporting Epyc at the moment.
 
There's a little information here.

I’m using the ASRock Tai Chi with ECC RAM (Crucial CT16G4WFD824A).


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57 minutes ago, thefivetheory said:

I’m using the ASRock Tai Chi with ECC RAM (Crucial CT16G4WFD824A).

 

Which one? The X399 (socket TR4) supports ECC completely, according to the manufacturer.

 

The X370 (socket AM4) might or might not, depending on whose speculation you read. It probably doesn't, though you can use ECC RAM as though it was non-ECC, as you can on several other socket AM4 motherboards. Reports such as this one  prove absolutely nothing and the manufacturer itself makes no such claims.

 

I remember a couple of years ago there was a lot of excitement about a £50 Asus socket AM1 motherboard that someone had decided provides full ECC functionality with cheap 4-core Athlon APUs and promised to be a very cost effective server-grade solution. It turned out not to be true. The fact that the system POSTs with ECC RAM fitted is absolutely no guarantee that it can actually correct errors and proper functionality is extremely difficult to verify. There's a guy on YouTube who built a FreeNAS server based on the board and he remains adamant that he has true ECC protection, despite evidence from MemTest86 to the contrary - at the time it contained a bug, since fixed, that gave a misleading impression.

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19 hours ago, John_M said:

 

Do you have a reference for that? A look at Asus's website reveals nothing (they make no claims or promises) and Google reveals only speculation, rumour and contradiction.

 

Yes, Asus' web site.  o.O

 

I'm pretty sure Wendell @ Level1Techs has confirmed it in one of his many Ryzen videos, too.

 

 

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5 hours ago, HellDiverUK said:

Yes, Asus' web site.  o.O

 

Sorry, but I can't find any specific claim from Asus that any of their AM4 motherboards actually support ECC function. Yes, you can use ECC RAM if you want but there's no claim beyond that. There's no way of verifying that errors are being corrected. This article started out looking promising but it's inconclusive and they never followed it up - which is something of a hint that it turned out to be a dead end. At first sight the results with Linux look encouraging but I think they are misleading - see MarkT's comment. The CPUs undoubtedly support ECC (confirmed by Lisa Su, Robert Hallock and James Prior) and the necessary traces seem to be present on many AM4 motherboards but the firmware support is missing. Perhaps when Ryzen Pro CPUs become available from retailers someone will make a serious AM4 motherboard. Maybe HP or Dell will support ECC on their Ryzen Pro workstations - details seem sketchy at the moment.

  • Upvote 1
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On 10/10/2017 at 10:23 AM, John_M said:

 

Sorry, but I can't find any specific claim from Asus that any of their AM4 motherboards actually support ECC function.

 

Asus will say on the specs  "ECC* or Non-ECC RAM" with the "*ECC function not supported" footnote.  AM4 doesn't have this footnote, so that to me says ECC is supported.

 

Also, if ECC didn't work, why would they have an ECC RAM QVL list?  https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X370-F-GAMING/HelpDesk_QVL/

 

So, I can find more claims that it is supported and does work than you can speculate that it can't.

 

 

Edited by trurl
Clean it up
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2 hours ago, HellDiverUK said:

Asus will say on the specs  "ECC* or Non-ECC RAM" with the "*ECC function not supported" footnote.  AM4 doesn't have this footnote, so that to me says ECC is supported.

 

No. All that means is they forgot to include the footnote.

 

2 hours ago, HellDiverUK said:

Also, if ECC didn't work, why would they have an ECC RAM QVL list?  https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X370-F-GAMING/HelpDesk_QVL/

 

Many motherboards have ECC RAM in their QVL list. It's presence means that it's tested, not that the ECC function works.

 

2 hours ago, HellDiverUK said:

So, I can find more claims that it is supported and does work than you can speculate that it can't.

 

It's not the number of unsubstantiated claims that matters. What is needed is proof.

 

2 hours ago, HellDiverUK said:

Dick.

 

How pathetic. You should grow up. You can't admit you jumped to the wrong conclusion so you got abusive instead. Shame on you. It's not how people behave here. What happened to the idea of having a healthy difference of opinion?

  • Upvote 1
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On 10/7/2017 at 8:06 PM, eschultz said:

 

MSI did end up releasing a BIOS update that allows one to enable SVM (sorry, I must have posted on another forum about this).

 

I moved my development VM on to this Threadripper machine (no GPU passthrough) and performance is great.

Ah great at least it works with KVM now

 

The wait for NPT fix by KVM continues.....

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On 10/11/2017 at 6:56 AM, ars92 said:

Ah great at least it works with KVM now

 

The wait for NPT fix by KVM continues.....

Yeah, I'd be using Xen right now (which doesn't have the NPT bug at all, so I hear), but it refused to acknowledge that I had SVM on regardless of the fact that it definitely was.

Running bare Windows is a tragedy, but I'm not the type to dual boot.

 

Edit: My recollection was wrong. It knew I had SVM on, but due to some ACPI table thing, it was unable to enable AMD-Vi (IOMMU).

Edited by dkabot
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

I've been following the Ryzen based threads relatively closely, however I haven't seen much more active discussions based on the KVM NPT bug? I recently bought a Ryzen 7 1700 to replace my aging Xeon platform but I'm starting to regret it already! Video performance is awful, I haven't tried disabling NPT but it seems like a lose/lose workaround anyway. I'm mainly concerned about my Win 10 gaming VM... my other VMs are fine but this is my main VM with which I pass through a Geforce 1060.


Anyway, I may need to stick with the Xeon platform for now for my unraid usage (NAS and dockers, some testing VMs etc.)... and go bare metal for the Ryzen platform if there isn't a resolution for the NPT bug on the horizon.


Thanks!


Chris

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4 minutes ago, swiguy said:

Hi all,

 

I've been following the Ryzen based threads relatively closely, however I haven't seen much more active discussions based on the KVM NPT bug? I recently bought a Ryzen 7 1700 to replace my aging Xeon platform but I'm starting to regret it already! Video performance is awful, I haven't tried disabling NPT but it seems like a lose/lose workaround anyway. I'm mainly concerned about my Win 10 gaming VM... my other VMs are fine but this is my main VM with which I pass through a Geforce 1060.


Anyway, I may need to stick with the Xeon platform for now for my unraid usage (NAS and dockers, some testing VMs etc.)... and go bare metal for the Ryzen platform if there isn't a resolution for the NPT bug on the horizon.


Thanks!


Chris

You haven't seen anything because nothing's happened.

It's still there, and the only "discovery" is that this bug is 10 years old and on other AMD processors.

 

If you have a more technical hand, you can try other hypervisors which apparently are unaffected, such as Xen or ESXi.

Xen seems to be very lenient on what you can pass through, but requires modifying nVidia drivers to install them and setup is obtuse.

ESXi apparently works, and has a far easier way to just hide the VM status (like KVM), but I know of no way to work around my poor IOMMU groupings.

 

There's also the possibility that some other hypervisor like Bhyve (BSD) will add GPU passthrough, in which case it could probably be used instead, but we have no estimate for if/when that'll happen.

 

As much as I hate to say it, if you want things to Just Work(TM) get an Intel processor.

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1 hour ago, dkabot said:

You haven't seen anything because nothing's happened.

It's still there, and the only "discovery" is that this bug is 10 years old and on other AMD processors.

 

If you have a more technical hand, you can try other hypervisors which apparently are unaffected, such as Xen or ESXi.

Xen seems to be very lenient on what you can pass through, but requires modifying nVidia drivers to install them and setup is obtuse.

ESXi apparently works, and has a far easier way to just hide the VM status (like KVM), but I know of no way to work around my poor IOMMU groupings.

 

There's also the possibility that some other hypervisor like Bhyve (BSD) will add GPU passthrough, in which case it could probably be used instead, but we have no estimate for if/when that'll happen.

 

As much as I hate to say it, if you want things to Just Work(TM) get an Intel processor.

 

Thanks for your response, it's what I was expecting to hear from my "Googling" around this morning.... *sigh*... I suppose I could run my Ryzen PC separately from unraid (bare metal) and keep my Xeon stuff around for other unraid functionality.

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3 hours ago, methanoid said:

Hey dkabot where has your message gone?  Really good news and if a fix arrives will make lots of Ryzen and TR owners happy. I just plumped for two 5820k systems instead :(

 

dkabot said:

Saw this linked in the VFIO Discord (cool place, though not Unraid related).

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/iommu/2017-October/024822.html

 

Maybe a fix won't be never after all?

 

 

Yes that post does look interesting.

 

EDIT - Watching the discord chat, there are people testing this and reporting it works well. 26FPS to 60FPS etc..

Edited by Tuftuf
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