Lime-Technology Shutdown?


oxi

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I just ordered 2 preconfigured Keys.  Does anyone happen to know which version of Unraid will be loaded?  I've got everything ordered now and I'm really looking forward to this project!

 

;D

 

I would be interested to see how long they take to come. Would it be possible to post back when you actually get them ?

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the fact that I wouldn't recommend unRAID to my clients for this reason should be enough in itself to give it some validity.

 

We disagree, and to me, this statement does not provide validity.  It seems to add fuel to out a response again. This has occurred multiple times before and I think it burns bridges. It makes something like this less and less valid.

 

If you had allot of systems to sell or customers to integrate and you really felt this was an appropriate environment, you would be approaching this in a direct and professional manner with limetech privately.

 

Maybe the clients you have are not technical enough for this environment.

Maybe they need a full system integrator who can support them, rather then a $100 nas solution.

In that case, a hardware raid controller would be worth it's cost and you should be recommending that to your clients.

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Maybe they need alot of things... but maybe just maybe i know what my customers need better than you :)

 

This is not inflammatory, it is not speculation or escalation to try and prove a point it is a hard fact.

 

It comes down to this. I wont recommend any product that is not supported 365 days by the supplier regardless of whom that supplier or product is. Otherwise it becomes my problem when the supplier is MIA.

 

If there was paid support available 365 that would be fine but i am sure as guns not going to try and convince a supplier that support is important.

 

 

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I ordered a "plus" registration key 7 days ago.  I have yet to receive the code.  I emailed sales, per the e-mail address in the e-mail, but have not heard back from anyone yet.

 

In the meantime, can I put in a 4th and 5th drive and pre-clear them, or will that not work until I get the key to allow for more than 3 drives?

 

 

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Maybe they need alot of things... but maybe just maybe i know what my customers need better than you :)

 

This is not inflammatory, it is not speculation or escalation to try and prove a point it is a hard fact.

 

It comes down to this. I wont recommend any product that is not supported 365 days by the supplier regardless of whom that supplier or product is. Otherwise it becomes my problem when the supplier is MIA.

 

If there was paid support available 365 that would be fine but i am sure as guns not going to try and convince a supplier that support is important.

 

Support is important, and that's why there are SLA's and service contracts.

 

Seems like you're in the wrong place.

If there are enterprise requirements, then an enterprise solution should be sought.

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I ordered a "plus" registration key 7 days ago.  I have yet to receive the code.  I emailed sales, per the e-mail address in the e-mail, but have not heard back from anyone yet.

 

In the meantime, can I put in a 4th and 5th drive and pre-clear them, or will that not work until I get the key to allow for more than 3 drives?

 

If that whole thread is reviewed, it will be clear there was completion to that issue.

Someone else reported ordering a key and getting it within 3 hours.

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and only Enterprise solutions have 365 days support.  now back in the real world.... :P

 

I really don't know why things like "enterprise solutions" and "full system integrator" keep getting brought up. I could sell unRAID if it had better support. I don't need to justify whom i would sell it to or why I would sell it to them or what they would use it for... none of that matters as long as they pay Tom the money.... all I am saying is that without proper support I wont.

 

I ordered a "plus" registration key 7 days ago.  I have yet to receive the code.  I emailed sales, per the e-mail address in the e-mail, but have not heard back from anyone yet.

 

In the meantime, can I put in a 4th and 5th drive and pre-clear them, or will that not work until I get the key to allow for more than 3 drives?

 

If that whole thread is reviewed, it will be clear there was completion to that issue.

Someone else reported ordering a key and getting it within 3 hours.

 

Im sure lots of people got email support lickity split. Lots does not equal all.

 

 

Really i get the impression theres some backlash going on here. I really dont care if Tom doesnt have 365 day support. I dont care at all. ALL I AM SAYING is that if he did i could sell his product.

 

 

Also

 

We were unable to complete your request.

 

Currently there are 0 RB-1200's in stock.

 

...

 

We were unable to complete your request.

 

Currently there are 0 MD-1510/LC's in stock.

 

...

 

We were unable to complete your request.

 

Currently there are 0 MD-1510/LI's in stock.

 

...

 

We were unable to complete your request.

 

Currently there are 0 MD-1510/LL's in stock.

 

 

You simply cannot blame people for thinking that Limetech LLC is closed when you cant buy a server and the company has made one post in one month on their own forum and the last news item was 3 months ago.

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Now lets be honest here. 7 days is a lot longer than 3 hours. I don't know where your logic of saying someone else got a response in 3 hours has anything to do with the person who had no response in 7 days, unless you are trying to say they are lying. You all act like you know the creator of unRAID personally by the use of "Tom" in your posts. Do you guys know him personally? If not, calling out "tom" in your posts is a little rude to him and unprofessional. The fact is that this thread is here for a reason and should probably be called to the attention of lime-tech so they can know how people feel about the support. I honestly can't see how they can miss this thread and if they are ignoring it then that doesn't say much about their priorities at all. I like this product and despite what it appears I really hope things get better on the customer facing side.

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I sent an email to Tom and got a response one day later.  I felt like he put out a very useful response and even offered to do *free* work by adding the driver himself if necessary.  Show me any other raid vendor that would do that.  In the end I went with a different motherboard.  I've seen really superb support on the forum.  Far, far more than I would expect for a free forum.  I would recommend unRAID to anyone at this point, with the understanding that commercial product style of support isn't yet available. 

 

Has everyone overlooked the obvious, support contracts don't have to be made with Tom.  There are others, some on this forum that could be contracted with to provide 24x7 support if that is all that is stopping you.  I'd say start indicating you are willing to sign support contracts for $10K for 100 hours of phone support annually and $180/hour on site + transportation expenses and you will have your support popping out of the wood work. 

 

See my email below...

 

RE: Atheros driver support question?

From:  Tom Mortensen ([email protected]

Sent: Mon 3/08/10 10:06 PM

To:  Queeg

 

There are three Atheros/Attansic drivers included:

atl1.ko - for L1

atl1e.ko - for L1E

atl1c.ko - for L1C

The linux kernel documents don’t provide any more info than this.

 

Here is a thread that seems to imply driver needs to be used from Atheros website:

http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3105954.0

and

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1255082

 

And here is where the Atheros download page:

 

http://partner.atheros.com/Drivers.aspx

 

It’s quite possible those threads are out of date since the linux kernel in latest unRAID release is newer than those threads & the Ethernet driver guys tend to stay on top of new chips.  Anyway, if you want to give it whirl & it doesn’t work “out of the box”, then I will try to compile that driver & send to you.

 

Cheers,

Tom

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From: Queeg

Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 5:23 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: Atheros driver support question

 

 

 

Hello,

 

I'm hoping you can tell me what Atheros network driver is included in unRAID?  I've found a motherboard but it has Atheros AR8131 onboard adapter.  I have a post in the hardware forum that has more information if interested.

 

I found a reference to a driver ( AR81Family-linux-v1.0.1.4.tar.gz ) but I'd like to know what driver actuallly went into the unRAID build.

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-laptop-and-netbook-25/atheros-ar8131-fedora-10-linux-788000/

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=5530.0;topicseen

 

Thanks,

 

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I have come to the conclusion that the best supported products are those that have large active communities who "Live" on forums.  Lime Technology has one, Philips Pronto PRO has one, Logitech SlimSevices has one, I am sure there are others, Anthem has one.  I am sure there are others.

 

I have not touched Linux in years.  My unRaid is up and running and that took me just a few days (once all the parts were here) with a lot of crap being done that did not have to be done at all (and I was told so).

 

It actually was quite easy (having now done it) and I am in the process of documenting it. I will post a link to the doc when I finish it.

 

Now it is time for Sushi!!!

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and only Enterprise solutions have 365 days support.  now back in the real world.... :P

 

I really don't know why things like "enterprise solutions" and "full system integrator" keep getting brought up. I could sell unRAID if it had better support. I don't need to justify whom i would sell it to or why I would sell it to them or what they would use it for... none of that matters as long as they pay Tom the money.... all I am saying is that without proper support I wont.

 

Perhaps there is a catering to the more technical market then your end users.

 

 

You simply cannot blame people for thinking that Limetech LLC is closed when you cant buy a server and the company has made one post in one month on their own forum and the last news item was 3 months ago.

 

They are not offered right now for a reason. We don't know the full reason.

 

 

Has everyone overlooked the obvious, support contracts don't have to be made with Tom.  There are others, some on this forum that could be contracted with to provide 24x7 support if that is all that is stopping you.  I'd say start indicating you are willing to sign support contracts for $10K for 100 hours of phone support annually and $180/hour on site + transportation expenses and you will have your support popping out of the wood work. 

 

Exactly.

 

As much as it's a limetech product, it is also community supported.

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NAS LOVES these types of threads.  There have been at least 4 similar threads when Tom goes AWOL for long periods, and NAS is always quick to berate Tom for his absence and get forum members all riled up.  NAS - perhaps delays in getting yoiur keys are a hint.  :o

 

Whatever you beleive that Tom should be doing, or whatever you feel you would be doing if you were Tom, truth is you are not Tom.  If your goal is to be heard by Tom and to shake him so that he hears, believe me when I say the forum has been heard loud and clear and he knows we'd like to see him more active here and not have long lulls. 

 

Most of us like it here even through the proprieter is frequently away.  We know that when the proprieter does return from time to time, he usually brings us a few small goodies, and sometimes a few big ones.  During his absenses, as WeeboTech points out very correctly, no one comes here with questions that aren't eagerly answered by very experienced unRAIDers.  You can complain about a lot of things with Tom being away, but lack of support isn't one of them!

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My goal is consistent ... to point out where unRAID could improve. If you actually read what I am saying you would see that.

 

Ii do comment on these threads but notice other users start them with valid concerns and then they are beaten down by regulars posting clever replys saying "it doesn't matter Limetech is MIA...insert clever reason here"

 

It does matter Limetech doesn't answer.

 

It does matter that no one can talk about this without it getting ugly or personal.

 

It does matter that a thread like this can ever exist on a commercial product without the company commenting.

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My goal is consistent ... to point out where unRAID could improve. If you actually read what I am saying you would see that.

 

Ii do comment on these threads but notice other users start them with valid concerns and then they are beaten down by regulars posting clever replys saying "it doesn't matter Limetech is MIA...insert clever reason here"

 

It does matter Limetech doesn't answer.

 

It does matter that no one can talk about this without it getting ugly or personal.

 

It does matter that a thread like this can ever exist on a commercial product without the company commenting.

 

The criticism is not constructive. In fact, I think it burns bridges.

 

When someones business model, hobby model, service model doesn't align with your expectations it doesn't seem nice to criticize them on their own forum all the time.  You've pointed it out enough, Now take it up directly with the company instead of stoking the fire.

 

As a paying customer, there is a right to alert people if there is no support. However, there is support. It's just not meeting an expectation level. Yet this expectation level has not been communicated in a nice and professional manner.

 

Most of the issues I've seen posted are based on pre-sales questions and expectations that a business model or road map of future activity needs to be communicated.

 

You can get more bees with honey then vinegar.

 

If you really wanted to sell the product, you would be building a partnership instead of posting comments on a public forum.

 

Currently, you're not going to get 365 day direct high speed support. If this is what you want, build a partnership, or SLA.

 

I think limetech is at a point of growing pains. I've seen this before in my own business. There comes a point where you are busting at the seams with work, and not able to get past a certain level of day to day management. Someone recommended "The E Myth" which was great reading. It did help us think differently in how we built our business.

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Now lets be honest here. 7 days is a lot longer than 3 hours. I don't know where your logic of saying someone else got a response in 3 hours has anything to do with the person who had no response in 7 days, unless you are trying to say they are lying.

 

This deserves comment.  While it is inexcusable to be a paying customer and not receive product or response in 7 days. The other customer who responded they received product in 3 hours reveals that something went wrong.

There are no accusations of lying.  Something went wrong.

 

In this respect, something should change. Perhaps each customer should sign up. Get some sort of customer account record whereby keys are posted into the online account rather then using email.

 

email is not a 100% guaranteed delivery mechanism.

 

I know in the past, I put a comment in my order for keys.  The person that was working with Tom had questions about my comment.  They were waiting on a response from Tom, which is what delayed the release of my keys.

 

 

The fact is that this thread is here for a reason and should probably be called to the attention of lime-tech so they can know how people feel about the support. I honestly can't see how they can miss this thread and if they are ignoring it then that doesn't say much about their priorities at all. I like this product and despite what it appears I really hope things get better on the customer facing side.

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I don't know if the thread has been missed. But in direct communications, it has been said the board moves too fast to see all that is going  on.

 

Sometimes I think concentrating on the bigger fish to fry is what happens.

 

My only purpose here is to calm the disparaging comments or assumptions posted.

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I agree with you wholeheartedly. I don't know if the thread has been missed. But in direct communications, it has been said the board moves too fast to see all that is going  on.

 

That's ridiculous. This is not an unofficial forum -- it's mentioned right next to the product being sold.

 

There's certainly no excuse for ignoring customers who contact the company by phone or email.

As a customer, I don't care how many staff there at a company or if they "busy doing other things". If I want to buy something or have a support question, I should not be ignored.

 

Forums are a different matter, but as this IS the official forum, there should be a rep from the company here at least every day.

 

If the company is really a one-man band, and that one man can't keep up, hire temporary or part-time or full-time staff.

For forum support, LimeTech could even deputize volunteer forum members as moderators and official reps.

 

Ignoring customers is not an option when you are selling a product, and any defense of that is... indefensible!  ;D

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Forums are a different matter, but as this IS the official forum, there should be a rep from the company here at least every day.

 

Ignoring customers is not an option when you are selling a product, and any defense of that is... indefensible!  ;D

 

I see logins from limetech almost daily. Even when people believe they are MIA.

They are probably handling customers and other issues.

I really do not believe customers are being ignored purposely. nor condone it.

Personally I find it hard to keep up with everything on the board and I check quite a few times throughout the day.

 

Perhaps I am just more understanding of what it's like to run a small business with a wide audience for support.

 

 

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You can complain about a lot of things with Tom being away, but lack of support isn't one of them!

 

That seems like an overstatement.  Yes, the forum community is pretty good, and there are plenty of people prepared to help out when someone has a problem.  But there are simply some things that the community can't answer because only someone with insider knowledge of unRAID will know the answer.  I've sent Tom two e-mails over the last couple months because the community wasn't able to give me a definitive answer, and both have done completely unanswered (one e-mail sent in early February, and one other a bit over a week ago).  

 

Community technical support is a great thing to have (with a supportive user community), but its not an alternative to some sort of official support.  I don't see how you can say a lack of official support isn't an legitimate gripe.

 

So, admittedly this is something I really should have checked out before I bought a license, but I was just going through the posting history for the limetech account. I saw a bunch of fairly brief patches of a lot of posts, followed by (until recently) brief periods of inactivity.  Then I got as far back as September of last year when I found that there were no posts between May 12th and September 23rd.  He was presumably working on the 4.5 betas during this time (though its not clear how much, since the write performance increase came later), but was he responding to email tech support queries even though he wasn't posting?  I guess I originally assumed that, like SageTV, Lime-Tech was small, but just big enough to be Tom's main job.  Now I'm assuming this is Tom's side job.  Out of curiosity, is that true?

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Community technical support is a great thing to have (with a supportive user community), but its not an alternative to some sort of official support.  I don't see how you can say a lack of official support isn't an legitimate gripe.

 

On the "official technical support" front, there have been a few people that have had problems that forum members could not solve, and Tom has always (from my understanding) gotten involved.  But he does not answer random feature request emails, or questions about his business or the future of his product.  Not sure what questions you are trying to get answered.

 

The forum is very supportive and 99 times out of 100 is able to solve users' problems.  I didn't mean to imply it was not a legitimate gripe that limetech isn't more active.  But these threads are tedious and unproductive.  My personal view is each of us has to either accept Tom's eccentricities or find another NAS solution/company combo we like better.

 

 

 

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You can complain about a lot of things with Tom being away, but lack of support isn't one of them!

But there are simply some things that the community can't answer because only someone with insider knowledge of unRAID will know the answer.  

 

If the forum can't answer your question(s) then your not seeking information about features.  Perhaps like me you wanted to know if a certain chipset is supported and the forum wasn't able to help and suggested I contact Tom in email?  My question to him was because I wanted a particular motherboard but wasn't certain of the network driver support.  But being on a budget I didn't want to actuall shell out bucks and buy hardware just to see if it would work.  Ok, I'm thrifty (cheap).

To me, it was nice Tom offered to help - at all.  To me, that was beyond what I would expect from any vendor (for free).  I would expect that type of support if I had a support contract with the expectation I might have to pay for the requested UPGRADE that only I cared about.  There are lots of big companies that have little to no free public support.

 

Here are some personal examples.  

 

1. I'm a customer of DishNetwork for 3 years now.  I decided to use a feature they have of adding a USB hard drive to store save DVR movies on.  I'm having problems because mine keeps disconnecting in the middle of the night.  I called them for support.  They told me that some hard drives and/or external usb devices experience problems.  So I asked them what they recommend buying.  They don't know.  They don't have a hardware compatibility list.  They don't have a list of the ones that don't work either.  What?  Can't they tell me ONE that would work?  No!  Crap.  And that's a company listed on the stock market!

 

2. Have you tried to get any support from Sony...ever?

 

3. How about your car.  Any free support for that expensive beast?

 

4. Your laptop?  I'm guessing you have a support contract.

 

5. I'm an application developer so I'm using different 3rd party add-on, frameworks etc.  Sometimes I really need internal information that goes beyond the crappy manuals and even the support forums.  When I do, it usually takes days to weeks even to get responses from just the right person.  In those cases the companies I'm working for fall into two categories.  Those willing to buy support agreements and those who don't.  The ones who do pay for support are more successful and usually consider the expense as just part of doing business.  

 

To summarize...buy a support contract.  Then you will be able to demand the support you want.

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My personal view is each of us has to either accept Tom's eccentricities or find another NAS solution/company combo we like better.

^^ Exactly what I was thnking when I made my earlier post.

 

The forum is very supportive and 99 times out of 100 is able to solve users' problems.

Here I expected you to say "999 times out of 1000", considering your screen name.  8) 

 

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