Lime-Technology Shutdown?

[reggie14]

If the forum can't answer your question(s) then your not seeking information about features.  Perhaps like me you wanted to know if a certain chipset is supported and the forum wasn't able to help and suggested I contact Tom in email?    

 

That was pretty much exactly what my first attempt at contacting Lime Tech support was about, and I never got a response. 

 

And, to respond to bjp999, my second email was about a problem I was having with unRAID and Acronis after I found some suspicious (at least, suspicious to me) SMB responses coming from unRAID.  The community was quick to try to help me with workarounds that only partially worked, but wasn't really capable of saying whether there was a problem with unRAID.

 

There are lots of big companies that have little to no free public support. [snip] To summarize...buy a support contract.  Then you will be able to demand the support you want.

 

In general, I disagree with your examples, since most of them actually do have some sort of free support.  Sure, its limited, but the limits of support are usually clearly (well, maybe not so clearly at times) stated, or basically known and generally accepted.

 

You're acting like this is a contractual thing.  You seem to be saying people shouldn't complain about Lime-Tech support because Lime-Tech hasn't made any clear promises about the level of support (other than you can contact them for support).  That's like saying you shouldn't complain about a restaurant's food being crappy because they never promised it would taste good.  I'm not saying anyone is entitled, particularly legally speaking, to a certain level of support, but Lime Tech's level of official support (and I've said the same thing about SageTV) is certainly a strike against it.  And, even unofficial support isn't that great.  The FAQ and wiki certainly have a lot of great information, but its not organized or written in a great way.

 

I understand that these kinds of complaints can get old, particularly for forum regulars.  I'm new, so I don't really know how often they come up.  But, I think they do serve a purpose.  People looking to buy unRAID really ought to know what kind of support they're going to get.  I didn't read much about that before I bought unRAID, other than seeing some testimonials from other Sage users basically saying Tom helped them when they needed it.  I'm not sure I really got the full picture from that though.  It didn't really matter in my case.  They could have said Tom practically never responds to emails, and I probably still would have bought it (after all, I bought it after I had my first email overlooked).  But I'm sure that's something that's more important to other people, and would at least make people think twice before buying a moderately expensive piece of software.  Really, how are people suppose to know how to interpret the line "You may also contact  Lime Technology directly with any technical support issue or question."?  For a niche product like unRAID, you're not going to find a lot of information about it anywhere else but these forums.

 

[WeeboTech]

My personal view is each of us has to either accept Tom's eccentricities or find another NAS solution/company combo we like better.

^^ Exactly what I was thnking when I made my earlier post.

 

The forum is very supportive and 99 times out of 100 is able to solve users' problems.

Here I expected you to say "999 times out of 1000", considering your screen name.    

 

 

LOL!!!! You guys crack me up!  bjp999, well said.

 

Actually, I've had a number of NAS solutions over the past years. Including Thecus, ReadyNAS and others.

This forum has by far been the most fun, friendly & helpful community.

[SSD]

And, to respond to bjp999, my second email was about a problem I was having with unRAID and Acronis after I found some suspicious (at least, suspicious to me) SMB responses coming from unRAID.  The community was quick to try to help me with workarounds that only partially worked, but wasn't really capable of saying whether there was a problem with unRAID.

 

There are parts of unRAID that Tom has build / customized, and there are parts that are OOTB with Linux.  Samba is one of the Linux components that Tom has had zero involvement in developing.  Taking nothing away from his knowledge and skills, he is no better able to answer such a question than any other Linux user. 

 

I hope this is not taken as rude or insensitive, but if Tom got involved in every apparent incompatibility question related to Linux he'd be doing that full time.  No company would do more with such a request than to send you a polite email saying that the feature is not 100% compatible in all cases and advise you to contact the other product's support.  I completely acknowledge how frustrating these problems can be.  And it would have take Tom 2 seconds to reply with some polite email of his own.  But it is what it is.  Tom tends to ignore questions he does not intend to answer.

 

Here I expected you to say "999 times out of 1000", considering your screen name.

 

[queeg]

And, to respond to bjp999, my second email was about a problem I was having with unRAID and Acronis ...

I don't think you can find anything saying unRAID is guaranteed to be compatible with Acronis.  If you think you found a bug in unRAID, it's clear you can report it and/or request a feature enhancement for future releases.  I sounds like you want limetech to do some sort of regression testing with all the various backup software that's on the market.  Dude, use something else.  The forum could probably advise you what they are using.  That is sufficient for the standard fee.  

 

 

In general, I disagree with your examples, since most of them actually do have some sort of free support.  Sure, its limited, but the limits of support are usually clearly (well, maybe not so clearly at times) stated, or basically known and generally accepted.

Horse feathers.  The free support is almost always forums run by users.  If someone there knows the answer then good but if not...to bad.  And that is what is generally accepted...so accept it.

 

And, even unofficial support isn't that great.  

Ok, you need to check into reality.  By unofficial support I expect you mean the forum.  I believe your viewpoint might be shared by a very tiny minority and I think your other statements don't validate that viewpoint.  In other words, you want something for nothing and can't recognize a good thing when it's right in front of you.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm calling this one busted.  You strike me as the type of person who buys a hot dog and complains it isn't steak hoping the disturbance will induce the shop to give you a refund or free upgrade to a steak dinner.  I'm cheap so I can spot others who are cheap.  The difference is I'm happy with my hot dog.   Basically, your a whiner.  

[xamindar]

 

There are parts of unRAID that Tom has build / customized, and there are parts that are OOTB with Linux.  Samba is one of the Linux components that Tom has had zero involvement in developing.  Taking nothing away from his knowledge and skills, he is no better able to answer such a question than any other Linux user.  

The problem with this is in the case of unRAID the customer has paid for it and should rightfully expect LimeTech to support everything included in the package and to fix problems. unRAID is not another OSS package just because it uses OSS software, it is a paid for package. Just like when Linksys used Linux on their routers. Despite it being freely available customers expect Linksys to fix problems in their firmware and not to just tell them to "go talk to the Linux kernel maintainers for a fix". Limetech is charging you for Samba which is included in unRAID, it's not some third party addon. They should support it and fix any problems that their customers are having. Also, they would need to forward any patches upstream to samba as that is the requirement of using that software.

[reggie14]

There are parts of unRAID that Tom has build / customized, and there are parts that are OOTB with Linux.  Samba is one of the Linux components that Tom has had zero involvement in developing.  Taking nothing away from his knowledge and skills, he is no better able to answer such a question than any other Linux user.  

 

OK, if he can't answer it, he can't answer it.  But I don't see why its a ridiculous thing to ask about.  He didn't write it, but he did include it in his product.  I'm not necessarily saying there's anything wrong with SMB in unRAID (in fact, I suspect there isn't), but if there is then he's partially responsible for fixing it.  That's part of the reason open source works.  There are companies out there with products that rely on open source products, which makes them quite motivated to fix things in the open source apps.

 

I don't think you can find anything saying unRAID is guaranteed to be compatible with Acronis.  If you think you found a bug in unRAID, it's clear you can report it and/or request a feature enhancement for future releases.  I sounds like you want limetech to do some sort of regression testing with all the various backup software that's on the market.  

 

This is getting OT, but no, that's not what I want.  As I partially alluded to, I did some troubleshooting and found some suspicious behavior coming from unRAID.  In particular, while looking at packet captures, I found an SMB response packet from unRAID that didn't look quite right (basically, it didn't match what I saw from other products that supported SMB).  I sent Tom an email with a description of the problem I was having and the packet capture, and a description of what I thought was suspicious in the SMB response.

 

Horse feathers.  The free support is almost always forums run by users.  If someone there knows the answer then good but if not...to bad.  And that is what is generally accepted...so accept it.

 

I don't have Sony products, but I've certainly called Samsung support.  Sure, you can say that's in-warranty support, but given unRAID doesn't have a warranty period I'd still say that's closer to the situation with unRAID than buying a service agreement (particularly since Lime-Tech says they offer tech support).  I know Ford has a general customer support number you can call for some things, and (in my experience) local dealers will help you out over the phone a bit.  Sure, its pretty limited, but its something.  I've definitely called/emailed computer component manufacturers both inside and outside the warranty period.  Until it actually gets to the point where they want to RMA something, they'll usually talk to me.  And sometimes they'll do more.  Asus has sent me fans for an out-of-warranty motherboard, and DFI has done quite a bit of troubleshooting with me on BIOS issues on a different out-of-warranty motherboard.

 

How often have you actually tried to get support from those examples that you gave?

 

Ok, you need to check into reality.  By unofficial support I expect you mean the forum.

 

Support was probably the wrong word- documentation probably would have been the better word.  I really just meant the FAQ and wiki (which I tried to say in that message).  As I said, "the FAQ and wiki certainly have a lot of great information, but its not organized or written in a great way."

 

Can you honestly say otherwise?  Sure, a lot of it is user-generated (which is why I originally called it unofficial support), so you sort of have to take what you can get.  But, a lot of that is basically filling in gaps of what probably should be in official documentation.

 

I'm not sure why you seem to be taking this so personally.  I'm not saying Tom is scammer.  I'm not saying he's lazy.  I'm not saying he's intentionally misleading people.  I'm not even saying he's doing anything wrong.  I'm just saying support isn't that great, and that that is something that potential customers should be aware of.  In a lot of cases, but not all, companies offer support for at least some period of time- maybe just within the warranty period, maybe not.  Lime Tech claims to provide technical support.  So, its a legitimate gripe it if its not very good.

[queeg]

But I don't see why its a ridiculous thing to ask about.  He didn't write it, but he did include it in his product.

I write applications built on another OS.  It's true I don't bundle the OS with my applications.  But even if I did, I would not accept support responsibility for the OS.

 

I don't have Sony products, but I've certainly called Samsung support.  Sure, you can say that's in-warranty support, but given unRAID doesn't have a warranty period I'd still say that's closer to the situation with unRAID than buying a service agreement.  I know Ford has a general customer support number you can call for some things, and (in my experience) local dealers will help you out over the phone a bit.  Sure, its pretty limited, but its something.

Your getting far more than "something" support at the unRAID forum.  Listen to yourself.

 

Support was probably the wrong word- documentation probably would have been the better word.  I really just meant the FAQ and wiki (which I tried to say in that message).  As I said, "the FAQ and wiki certainly have a lot of great information, but its not organized or written in a great way."

The organization of the material is difficult to penetrate and I found it like that as well.  And I did some complaining in a couple of posts just like you.  But then I decided that if a cursory search for information didn't help then I would post a question.  All of my questions have been responded to in what I think most people would say is a short turnaround time.  This forum is so awesome at helping its a freakin model for others to aspire to.  No nasty RTFM messages, no "search the forum before posting" threats. 

 

 

Lime Tech claims to provide technical support.  So, its a legitimate gripe it if its not very good.

It would be legitimate IF...But the actual fact, the one based in reality and held by scores of HAPPY people is the support is fantastic!  The fact that you continue to harp otherwise begs questions about your motives.  Give up the idea that somehow your compatibility problem will become the most important priority for limetech. 

 

If you are so disturbed that you absolutely MUST use Acronis then get some linux geek to hack a special SAMBA release and get it into your unRAID server.  It's really just about the money after all isn't it?  You want special attention (steak) but only paid for free upgrades and forum support (hot dog).

 

 

[WeeboTech]

I'm not sure why you seem to be taking this so personally.  I'm not saying Tom is scammer.  I'm not saying he's lazy.  I'm not saying he's intentionally misleading people.  I'm not even saying he's doing anything wrong.  I'm just saying support isn't that great, and that that is something that potential customers should be aware of.  In a lot of cases, but not all, companies offer support for at least some period of time- maybe just within the warranty period, maybe not.  Lime Tech claims to provide technical support.  So, its a legitimate gripe it if its not very good.

 

There's allot of negatives in there, but I didn't read any thing positive or constructive.

 

What is the expectation, or what is reasonable for a small business. (that's what it is).

 

If Samba is created by another party, do you think limetech can resolve and fix the problem?

Perhaps they have to just wait for the next release, or bump it up to the developers.

 

Throughout the thread, I see allot of gripes, and then some comments made.

A post here or there over morning coffee does not make support.

We know limetech visits the forum on a regular basis.

I would also assume there are responses handled and prioritized.

I have the notion, that some get lost.

 

Would a help desk ticket system with paid support work?

This is how my friend does it for his hosting company.

He pays the support reps based on tickets. I think it.s  $10 a ticket.

 

Is there really that much in lack of support here?

 

NAS worked very hard on shifting official documentation into the Wiki.

The Forum members have worked hard on adding to the Wiki, So what's missing and what are the constructive recommendations.

[purko]

That's like saying you shouldn't complain about a restaurant's food being crappy because they never promised it would taste good.

Bad example!  Limetech let you sample the food for free.  And it's far from "crappy"!    

That particular cook doesn't guarantee you that he'll cook you a different meal tomorrow.

 

[reggie14]

I'm not sure why you seem to be taking this so personally.  I'm not saying Tom is scammer.  I'm not saying he's lazy.  I'm not saying he's intentionally misleading people.  I'm not even saying he's doing anything wrong.  I'm just saying support isn't that great, and that that is something that potential customers should be aware of.  In a lot of cases, but not all, companies offer support for at least some period of time- maybe just within the warranty period, maybe not.  Lime Tech claims to provide technical support.  So, its a legitimate gripe it if its not very good.

 

There's allot of negatives in there, but I didn't read any thing positive or constructive.

 

Am I doing a bad job of stating my position?  Can you tell me what were the "allot of negatives in there"?  I see one, and I don't think I mean it as negatively as you're taking it.

 

I'm not saying anything has to change.  I'm not even saying anything should change when it comes to support.  All I'm saying is that people should be aware of the level of support they will receive.

 

In any event, I agree that this discussion has gone past its usefulness.  If you guys don't see any issues with Lime-Tech's official and unofficial support in its current form, I'm certainly not going to change your mind.

 

The Forum members have worked hard on adding to the Wiki, So what's missing and what are the constructive recommendations.

 

Completely fair question.  First of all, the official manual is pretty limited.  And that largely makes sense, because core unRAID functionality is kinda limited.  However, that puts a lot of pressure on user-community customizations.  Out of the box, the FTP server is enabled, but doesn't quite work, UPS support is missing, there's limited info on drives (e.g., no SMART data), and probably several other things that are probably very, very useful that I don't even know yet.  So, that's all my way of saying that I think good documentation on customizations is very important.  Maybe that goes without saying, but I've had someone argue with me about that before.

 

There's a couple things that I think are missing that would be quite helpful.  First, general information about how customizations work.  It's kind of confusing because of some of the things you do on unRAID seem to carry over on reboots, others don't.  There's a little information about this, but I haven't found a very good explanation on this.  I think I mostly understand now, but this was quite confusing to me at first.  Second, I think some sort of general quick start guide would also be quite helpful.  What are the tweaks that people need to know how to do to get the included functionality working (e.g., FTP support), and to add the important things that are missing (e.g., UPS support)?  Packaging is key.  The information is probably all there, but, unless I'm missing something, its pretty scattered.

 

I also think the FAQ is in pretty bad shape.  Many of the answers point to forum posts, and sometimes they're not easy to follow.  Information might be old, or they might point to someone (or a group of people) working through a problem.  It would be good if someone could go through all the questions, and basically clean up the answers from the forums.  That is, make sure they're up-to-date, and clean up the language.

 

There's also some random things that aren't clear.  I'm not really sure what the best way to deal with these things, other than maybe a more complete, reader-friendly user manual that reads more like an introduction to unRAID than an FAQ.  For main thing I'm thinking of here is the power button.  Is it safe to turn off an unRAID server with the computer's power button?  The answer seems to be maybe.  That seems like a pretty basic thing, but little things like that are sort of hard to cover.

[xamindar]

I write applications built on another OS.  It's true I don't bundle the OS with my applications.  But even if I did, I would not accept support responsibility for the OS.

I find this very hard to believe because of your previous actions on these forums. I have never seen adolescent teens with your type of immature attitude create software that is sold at a price. And since you haven't listed it, well, yeah.

[WeeboTech]

Am I doing a bad job of stating my position? 

 

I'm not saying anything has to change.  I'm not even saying anything should change when it comes to support.  All I'm saying is that people should be aware of the level of support they will receive.

 

In any event, I agree that this discussion has gone past its usefulness.  If you guys don't see any issues with Lime-Tech's official and unofficial support in its current form, I'm certainly not going to change your mind.

 

Constructive criticism comes with a suggestion on how it could be handled better.

So suggestions and ideas, without attitude can sometimes go a long way.

 

Frankly, from all the discussion, I believe support could be handled better or in a new way.

I also think there needs to be reasonable expectations and the support needs to flow both ways.

 

You did well on the suggestions for the Wiki/FAQ. 

Thank you.  Now if that can be used as a platform for change it can go in new direction.

[Joe L.]

There's also some random things that aren't clear.  I'm not really sure what the best way to deal with these things, other than maybe a more complete, reader-friendly user manual that reads more like an introduction to unRAID than an FAQ.  For main thing I'm thinking of here is the power button.  Is it safe to turn off an unRAID server with the computer's power button?  The answer seems to be maybe.   That seems like a pretty basic thing, but little things like that are sort of hard to cover.

You are correct, it does seem to be a pretty basic thing... But, the answer might be "maybe" however, in most cases, the answer I'd give is "no, using the power button will not result in a clean shutdown of the server."

The array must first be stopped before the serve can be shut down to have a clean shut-down of the array.

 

It is very easy to  have a definitive answer if you control the hardware, and the bios, and the software.  For the most part, lime-tech controls one of those.

 

If you have complete control, and can be assured that the ACPI features of the motherboard are working properly AND are enabled in the bios, then you can put into place an acpi handler script.

 

Lime-tech has such a script in place in /etc/acpi/acpi_handler.sh   It, as delivered by lime-tech will invoke /usr/local/sbin/powerdown.   That is NOT the script WeeboTech wrote with the same name, but one Lime-Tech wrote.  Lime-Tech's script uses "wget" to press the Poweroff button on the web-interface.  (exactly as if you clicked the button on the management web-page)

 

Now, the complicated part.  Normally that button is not visible unless the array is stopped.  If the array is first stopped, then the power-button on the  case should be exactly the same as the Poweroff button on the management-web-page.

 

If however the array is not stopped, at least one user reported the Poweroff button on the case will result in a non-clean shutdown.  (The Poweroff button is normally not shown on the web-management-display if the array is running)

 

Throw in the fact that some ACPI implementations are not enabled in the user's BIOS, and others are buggy, and many users build their own server from hardware purchased/obtained locally, and you can see why there is no clear answer to your question.

 

Even worse, if you install WeeboTech's powerdown script, and then press the "Power-button" on the case, you might still end up invoking the /usr/local/sbin/powerdown command that is listed in /etc/acpi/acpi_handler.sh  (not the one you think you are using)

 

I recently fixed the unMENU script that install WeeboTech's powerdown command to properly edit /etc/acpi/acpi_handler.sh to launch /sbin/powerdown.       At least his script will un-mount the drives and stop the array before powering down,

 

So... stock unRAID, I'd say stop the array first. Otherwise, the Power button on the case will result in a non-clean shutdown.

 

(I'll be happy to be proven wrong.  I'm pretty sure I know what lime-tech intends, but don't know if it is implemented completely at this time)

 

Your points are valid though as they are with the perspective of a new unRAID user.  It is easy for some of us to not think of the same questions.  For example, my server is powered up 24/7.  For the first three years it had no power button. Only when I had to do some trouble-shooting on the array did I add one.  Up until then, I'd stop the array and the switch off the two power supplies. (The original unRAID servers had two 300 watt supplies for the 12 disk slots)

 

I'd never think to ask "Is it safe to power down with the power button on the case?"   but it is a very valid basic question... and one that will be added to the wiki. (soon as we figure out a good way to say "maybe")

 

Joe L.

[reggie14]

So... stock unRAID, I'd say stop the array first. Otherwise, the Power button on the case will result in a non-clean shutdown.

 

(I'll be happy to be proven wrong.  I'm pretty sure I know what lime-tech intends, but don't know if it is implemented completely at this time)

 

One of the things that confuses me is that in the release notes for v4.5 beta 4 there's a line that says "- Pressing Power button gracefully shuts down the server."  That's what made me think that stock unRAID might safely shut down the box when pressing the power button.  So, is there any advantage to using the WeeboTech powerdown script over whatever the built-in functionality is?

 

I've seen other posts basically saying that the motherboard's ACPI implementation can impact whether or not the WeeboTech script or the stock script work.  Is there anyway to test what happens?  Are there motherboards that tend to work or not work (e.g., new boards vs. old boards, AMD vs. Intel boards, etc.)?  What setting(s) in the motherboard BIOS should be checked?

 

I'd never think to ask "Is it safe to power down with the power button on the case?"   but it is a very valid basic question... and one that will be added to the wiki. (soon as we figure out a good way to say "maybe")

 

At least as of right now, I can't even find a clear warning that the power button might not be safe.  It seems like every desktop computer I've had for the last several years has safely shut Windows down when I've hit the power button on the case.  I probably would have assumed it would be safe in unRAID, but somewhere I read it was a bad idea.  But then I read there was a script.  And then I read there was something already included in v4.5.  And then I read maybe those don't work.  It's all quite confusing.

 

One of my points in my last message is that, as of right now, there doesn't seem to be a good place to put little things like how to shut down an unRAID server.  That's really the sort of thing that ought to go in a user manual, but the current user manual kind of reads more like an FAQ.  I don't have any examples, but I'd guess there are more basic things, things comparable to powering off a system, that ought to go in the documentation.  And I think those things should go in something that's designed to be read once cover-to-cover by newbies, rather than in reference material that you look at when you can't figure out how to do something.  There doesn't seem to be a good resource like that right now that gives newbies an intro to unRAID.

[SSD]

I believe this thread has taken a very positive turn - from complaining to discussing substantive issues and questions.

 

I do want to mention that one of the reasons people like it here is because of the respect shown by all forum members to others.  Considerable restraint is sometimes required, but the result is an atmosphere where it is not imtimidating to ask questions.  I hope that the tenor of this forum will continue to be positive and constructive.

 

unRAID (out of the box) does not have certain features that are discussed in the forums.  UPS support - not in unRAID.  Email notifications - not in unRAID.  Scheduled parity checks - not in unRAID.  SMART data presentation - not in unRAID.  Preclearing (prior to adding to array) - not in unRAID.  Alternate user interfaces - not in unRAID.  There is no support of ANY of these features by Limetech, and the community authors provide them as-is.  Any support you get of these is a bonus!

 

The wiki is community maintained (except for the official documentation section which only NAS and Limetech have the abilty to update).  The wiki represents 100s if not 1000s of hours of work.  Be careful as you make "suggestions" that you don't discourage those that have taken us from almost nothing to a vast and very helpful information repository.  The wiki is updatable by ANYONE, so feel free to pitch in and make changes that you think would help other users.

 

I'm not saying anything has to change.  I'm not even saying anything should change when it comes to support.  All I'm saying is that people should be aware of the level of support they will receive.

 

This communication needs to be balanced, which was my point in posting in this thead.  99% (or maybe 99.9%) of users have a positive experience with unRAID because this forum provides a responsive environment to get their questions answered and help them solve problems with unRAID usage (often within minutes!).  And no one ever says "that's a topic not covered under support."  Taken on balance, I believe that support here is better than any software I have ever used.  If you need to contact the author, however, you may not get a response.  If this is your point then I agree.

 

If you guys don't see any issues with Lime-Tech's official and unofficial support in its current form, I'm certainly not going to change your mind.

 

I really don't agree with this sentiment.  Let me try once more.  I wish it was 75 degrees and sunny every Saturday and Sunday.  I could pray every day and doubt it would have any affect.  Wishes won't make it so.  I might wish that Limetech was more vocal in the forums and didn't have long lulls and responded to every email.  I could send them emails and make suggestions in the forum (along with many other voices) to make it clear how helpful it would be and how it might even improve sales.  If such emails and forums posts went unanswered, repeatedly, then at some point I might realize that all my attempts will not change Limetech.  I might then need to make a decision - accept the way things are, or find a new NAS solution.  Relating it to the weather analogy - I find that making the best of the weather is much preferrable to finding a better planet.  

[WeeboTech]

I could send them emails and make suggestions in the forum (along with many other voices) to make it clear how helpful it would be and how it might even improve sales.  If such emails and forums posts went unanswered, repeatedly, then at some point I might realize that all my attempts will not change Limetech.

 

In adding to this, many requests and suggestions have been reviewed and applied.

It took time. Sometimes more then we liked, yet it occurred and was able to be used.

 

[Joe L.]

One of the things that confuses me is that in the release notes for v4.5 beta 4 there's a line that says "- Pressing Power button gracefully shuts down the server."  That's what made me think that stock unRAID might safely shut down the box when pressing the power button.  So, is there any advantage to using the WeeboTech powerdown script over whatever the built-in functionality is?

I'd like to continue this line of thought, I'll start a new thread for it.  It is worth discussion, but is not directly releated to the current topic.

 

The ACPI discussion thread relating to the power button is here: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=6078.msg58199#new

 

I've seen other posts basically saying that the motherboard's ACPI implementation can impact whether or not the WeeboTech script or the stock script work.  Is there anyway to test what happens?  Are there motherboards that tend to work or not work (e.g., new boards vs. old boards, AMD vs. Intel boards, etc.)?  What setting(s) in the motherboard BIOS should be checked?

Again, let me create an entirely new thread for this and other ACPI questions in the Software Forum.  They warrant it.

 

As far as a "reference user guide" a few of us wish we had the permissions/authority to update the "Official user manual, but only Tom @ lime-tech has that authority.  Unfortunately, is is not kept up to date with the latest release features.  I'm not sure if it even mentions the cache drive... or if it does, it is not described in any detail.

 

I know I am not a professional writer, and certainly have a different perspective on a unRAID reference manual than a complete stranger to the product.  I welcome feedback on how the wiki can be improved, but all any of us (as far as I know) can do is modify the un-official documentation.  

 

Joe L.

[reggie14]

I welcome feedback on how the wiki can be improved, but all any of us (as far as I know) can do is modify the un-official documentation. 

 

Out of curiosity, do you think Tom would have a problem with the official manual being duplicated and updated on the unofficial side?

[barrygordon]

I think an unofficial revised copy of the manual would be very useful.

 

If Tom would cooperate then as things get documented correctly (in toms viewpoint) he could lift them out of the revised version and add them to the official version, perhaps even removing them from the revised version. In effect he would be editing copy from his associates making the official manual much better.

 

In that way the revised version acts as the official manual with copy changes until Tom approves them at which tme theyare absorbed into the official manual.

 

Also suggest that all revisions/addendums/suggestions be annotated in such a way so the author is obvious.

[Joe L.]

I think an unofficial revised copy of the manual would be very useful.

 

If Tom would cooperate then as things get documented correctly (in toms viewpoint) he could lift them out of the revised version and add them to the official version, perhaps even removing them from the revised version. In effect he would be editing copy from his associates making the official manual much better.

 

In that way the revised version acts as the official manual with copy changes until Tom approves them at which tme theyare absorbed into the official manual.

 

Also suggest that all revisions/addendums/suggestions be annotated in such a way so the author is obvious.

Excellent Idea.

[SSD]

I think an unofficial revised copy of the manual would be very useful.

 

If Tom would cooperate then as things get documented correctly (in toms viewpoint) he could lift them out of the revised version and add them to the official version, perhaps even removing them from the revised version. In effect he would be editing copy from his associates making the official manual much better.

 

In that way the revised version acts as the official manual with copy changes until Tom approves them at which tme theyare absorbed into the official manual.

 

Also suggest that all revisions/addendums/suggestions be annotated in such a way so the author is obvious.

 

Great minds .... (look at item #2)

 

I tried several times to get some interest but never went anywhere.

 

I believe that NAS has the security to make something like this happen.

 

[NAS]

I think an unofficial revised copy of the manual would be very useful.

 

If Tom would cooperate then as things get documented correctly (in toms viewpoint) he could lift them out of the revised version and add them to the official version, perhaps even removing them from the revised version. In effect he would be editing copy from his associates making the official manual much better.

 

In that way the revised version acts as the official manual with copy changes until Tom approves them at which tme theyare absorbed into the official manual.

 

Also suggest that all revisions/addendums/suggestions be annotated in such a way so the author is obvious.

Excellent Idea.

 

I believe i still have Admin rights on the wiki. If so i could easily create a complete copy of the manual and link to it as the community manual from the wiki homepage. If someone is interested in starting the re-tinker let me know and i will do it. I don't have the time for the next couple of weeks to do much rewriting myself.

 

It might also be worth trying to write a statement of what official and unofficial support is, how long it lasts for and what you should expect from it, how to use it. The current situation leads to uncertainty which in turn leads to recurring threads like these. The regulars may have drawn their own conclusions as to what they think support is but new users have no such clarity. In theory that should end the debate. However i think we might struggle to define it (catch 22).

[unraided]

Others might disagree with me, but I believe that the likes of Joe L and the other Hero Members and or knowledgeable and experienced members too into writing updated procedures for unRAID is the way to go.

I have no objections and would feel comfortable in using and referencing to this updated documentation if it were rewriten by the experienced folk that for a long time have provided us with endless support and a wealth of knowledge on this forum.

I for one support this and fell it is a proactive way to having updated, up to the minute documentation for all new features, procedures and methods for the current and past versions of unRAID too. Good thinking Joe L.

[WeeboTech]

I think an unofficial revised copy of the manual would be very useful.

 

If Tom would cooperate then as things get documented correctly (in toms viewpoint) he could lift them out of the revised version and add them to the official version, perhaps even removing them from the revised version. In effect he would be editing copy from his associates making the official manual much better.

 

In that way the revised version acts as the official manual with copy changes until Tom approves them at which tme theyare absorbed into the official manual.

 

Also suggest that all revisions/addendums/suggestions be annotated in such a way so the author is obvious.

Excellent Idea.

 

I believe i still have Admin rights on the wiki. If so i could easily create a complete copy of the manual and link to it as the community manual from the wiki homepage. If someone is interested in starting the re-tinker let me know and i will do it. I don't have the time for the next couple of weeks to do much rewriting myself.

 

Please consult limetech before embarking on this. I think it could be a good idea, or at least lead to new ideas for reorganizing & enhancing the current manual.

 

 

It might also be worth trying to write a statement of what official and unofficial support is, how long it lasts for and what you should expect from it, how to use it. The current situation leads to uncertainty which in turn leads to recurring threads like these. The regulars may have drawn their own conclusions as to what they think support is but new users have no such clarity. In theory that should end the debate. However i think we might struggle to define it (catch 22).

 

I agree here. There seems to be ambiguity. I have some idea's to present when Tom is more active.

[Brandnewfatboy]

I had been pondering the wiki, as I feel it's an area that I can contribute to. As a first time PC-builder/Linux user, I don't have much technical knowledge (I was inordinately pleased last week to work out my first linux command, using cp to copy folders from one disk to another!), but as an editor/publisher I can do words. There are probably many others who, like me, are most unlikely to write a script or package, but might enjoy scouring the forums to develop a new page or section for the wiki.

 

This scouring is a big part of getting to understand unRAID at present. I've spent hours reading forum threads to understand concepts or new developments. Which I've thoroughly enjoyed, but is a barrier to new users who don't have these hours to spend. And while the current wiki has masses of useful information, it's fragmentary in places, and not comprehensive. Lots of useful info that could help round the wiki out exists in the forum, it's just a question of finding it. (I keep forgetting where I've seen handy hints, for example.)

 

As to who should write wiki entries, people who are working on code may not have the time to spend doing documentation. Which is where the more general users, such as myself, can help out by producing draft texts, with final checking/updating by experts.