Hi everyone,

I have two Mac computers both running OSX Sierra that I would like to use my unRAID server (6.3.5) as a target for time machine backups. I've read several discussions here and there with mixed results and questionable reliability. I was wondering if there is some sort of "tried and tested" or "official" resolution to this. After that, I could finally completely replace my existing Synology NAS with the unRAID, but the TM seems to be a challenging one.

Cheers

Nondas 

What issues are you having when you try to configure shares for TM backups?

While I can't speak to using TimeMachine for backups I can say that I have had trouble using "sparse bundles", which is what TimeMachine uses, they are basically a bunch of small files bundles together as opposed to one image file like the "sparse image".

I have been using SuperDuper for most backups and more recently whet back to Carbon Copy Cloner which performs better and is easier to use over networks.

The file type I use is "sparse image". I've had to delete all of my sparse bundles using Terminal otherwise any directories containing the sparse bundles would open and populate extremely slow.  Others that use TimeMachine may have different opinions.  Even the CCC site recommends not using the "sparse bundle" type on network drives.

Also I have backed up and restored, cloned, many system drives via SuperDuper and CCC without issue.

Thanks guys for taking the time to provide some feedback. The reason I asked in the first place I was because it seems users have mixed results with Time Machine. Some report that you should only use one single disk share rather than a user share. Also there are issues using different Allocation methods. So, just enabling AFP on a share does not really work out-of-the-box. It requires some tweaking.

Russ Uno, I haven't used ccc for anything else apart from disk cloning. I checked on their website and it seems to be a pretty solid alternative to TM. I might give it a try if I reach a deadens with TM and unRAID.

Thanks again

I use a separate TM share for each mac I backup. All shares are AFP and they all have a size limit set. I include all disks for all my shares but that's completely optional. You could just as easily only use one disk as long as its big enough to hold all the shares at whatever max size you have set. I don't know what you consider out-of-the-box but it only takes a minute or so to set up a share and I've never had to do any tweaking.

 

Using a network share for TM does have some drawbacks. You can't restore the OS from a network mounted disk regardless if it's unRAID or attached to an airport. If you want to backup your OS you'ld have to attach a backup drive directly to your computer. This is also true if you're using CCC or SuperDuper or any of the other paid apps afaik. Network shares are great for backing up data though IMO.

 

If you want paid software then CCC is very dependable as well and very flexible, just not free. It is also well supported. Love their tech support.

On 6/12/2017 at 3:10 PM, Russ Uno said:

While I can't speak to using TimeMachine for backups I can say that I have had trouble using "sparse bundles", which is what TimeMachine uses, they are basically a bunch of small files bundles together as opposed to one image file like the "sparse image".

I have been using SuperDuper for most backups and more recently whet back to Carbon Copy Cloner which performs better and is easier to use over networks.

The file type I use is "sparse image". I've had to delete all of my sparse bundles using Terminal otherwise any directories containing the sparse bundles would open and populate extremely slow.  Others that use TimeMachine may have different opinions.  Even the CCC site recommends not using the "sparse bundle" type on network drives.

Also I have backed up and restored, cloned, many system drives via SuperDuper and CCC without issue.

 

 

Hi,

 

I was pointed to this thread from wgstarks from my own thread about sparse bundles.

I am using Sierra and CCC and according to Bombich since Sierra using sparse bundles created by Disk Utility. 

 

As I have now learnt, CCC can also create disk images and even those sparsy ones.

 

I suppose using sparse disk images created by CCC onto the network share are they way to go?

 

5 hours ago, rainer said:

 

 

Hi,
I suppose using sparse disk images created by CCC onto the network share are they way to go?

 

Yes, before I switched to ccc from SuperDuper I tried it with both smb and afp from OSX   10.8 and both work fine with sparse images. As I mentioned the CCC web site does not recommend sparse bundles on network drives.

40 minutes ago, Russ Uno said:

Yes, before I switched to ccc from SuperDuper I tried it with both smb and afp from OSX   10.8 and both work fine with sparse images. As I mentioned the CCC web site does not recommend sparse bundles on network drives.

 

Thanks for the confirmation, the article from Bombich I read seemed to imply, that it was an issue on pre-Sierra systems.

Yeah, using sparse images does not work, CCC always cancels after 1 GB or 100 GB or something, with an error about communicating with the destination drive.

 

I check the connections again*, but I am not that hopeful anymore, as I cannot do it without sparse images as it seems. I will give it another try.

 

* the web interface of unRAID does not indicate a connection error, all disks appear green.

Edited June 27, 20179 yr by rainer

Well, sparse bundles work fine, sparse images do not. Is there a limit using XFS as file system?

According to https://scalability.org/2011/06/what-are-xfss-real-limits/ at least 16TB per file. lol

10 hours ago, rainer said:

Well, sparse bundles work fine, sparse images do not. Is there a limit using XFS as file system?

So this is with Sierra? I don't have an install of Sierra to try. Nothing like changes to keep you on your toes. I tend to stay with what is working until I can't no more because every time I "upgrade" it causes more problems than what it's worth.

 

9 hours ago, kizer said:

According to https://scalability.org/2011/06/what-are-xfss-real-limits/ at least 16TB per file. lol

Thanks. Could have thought of that. Stupid keyboard.

 

1 hour ago, Russ Uno said:

So this is with Sierra? I don't have an install of Sierra to try. Nothing like changes to keep you on your toes. I tend to stay with what is working until I can't no more because every time I "upgrade" it causes more problems than what it's worth.

 

Yep. Well, I wanted Sierra due to the hardware I use and El Capitan was not my cup of tea yet.

 

I will try some other stuff, but as I was in the middle of LAGging my two rigs, but abandoning it due to the wrong switch, I might have broken the world, as the extra NIC with two ports seems to confuse unRAID to use the on-board port.

 

Always change a running system said me.

2 hours ago, Russ Uno said:

So this is with Sierra? I don't have an install of Sierra to try. Nothing like changes to keep you on your toes. I tend to stay with what is working until I can't no more because every time I "upgrade" it causes more problems than what it's worth.

 

Sorry to quote you again, but could you explain your process in more detail and how much data you copy into the sparse images using CCC?
 

I want copy about 100 to 900 GB of media data (FCP X projects and such) per project into one sparse image created by CCC or Disk Utility. It always breaks off at because some connection issue with the built in hardware in my unRAID server. It didn't do this with sparse bundles, and I copied about 5 TBs of data into about 10 sparse bundles. Maybe I return to them. Or look into other options with pools. I am a bit frustrated and don't want to use FreeNAS because of the issues I read about and parity sounds really right for me.

 

Found the solution for now. I switch to vinyl. REALLY. The following doesn't work as it seems for whatever reason, only for the "small" 6 GB test library I created.

Quote

 

Or use the following command under Settings > SMB > SMB Extras:

vfs objects = catia fruit streams_xattr

Now FCP X does not need disk images and I don't need them. Let's see how permissions work out in the future.

 

PS: Command was completely made up and not found here.

 

 

Edited June 28, 20179 yr by rainer

I usually copy about 250 GB - I use FCE, about to switch to FCP X but I don't use images I just copy the files to Unraid on a dedicated drive in the array.

I have also used it for ProTools 10, Just  wav files, like 30 or so tracks of them and had no issue playing the files in 30 track session from UnRaid.. This was with and earlier version of UnRaid.

But certain files can't be just copied because of the meta data in the files so it is best to use images for that so nothing gets changed, lost etc on the foreign format..

The big problem with bundles for me was extremely slow opening, couldn't delete them from  the finder, I had to use terminal to rm the files and treat them as directories when doing so. Finder also would not display any sizes on bundles and they would make listing that directory they were in very, very slow.

I've had no issue with CCC backing up. I did have some issues with SuperDuper, which would copy most of the files but one odd one would make it abort.. and give me an error in the log.

 

vfs objects = catia fruit streams_xattr

Is this command on the Mac or in UnRaid?

13 hours ago, Russ Uno said:

 

vfs objects = catia fruit streams_xattr

Is this command on the Mac or in UnRaid?

 

unRAID. But I'm pretty sure it's already enabled by default since 6.3, see link to release notes below.

 

You can also toggle on "Enhanced OS X interoperability" per SMB share. The helps text states:  "When set to 'Yes' provides enhanced compatibility with Apple SMB clients, resulting, for example, in faster Finder browsing. This may cause some issues with Windows clients, however. Please also refer to the VFS_FRUIT MAN PAGE."

But it's not clear to me what exact vfs_fruit options the toggle enables. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in about that.