Recommendations for new build


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1 minute ago, ashman70 said:

Just search the forums for flashing H310 to IT mode, or IT mode' you'll find it, you have to do it on a windows PC but it's very straightforward and simple to do.

I think I can handle that then.

 

Would this card be a good choice then?  Seems like a good price and it's prime

https://www.amazon.com/Dell-8-Port-Internal-Controller-Precision/dp/B00ZDC999I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511325980&sr=8-1&keywords=Perc+H310

 

Or should I look for a different one?  Looks like Amazon has a bunch around that price but I'd like to make sure I get a legit one that will work.

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That should be ok, although if it were me, I'd just buy one off eBay that had been pulled out of a Dell server. Some of these can have different firmware on them which can lead to issues when trying to flash them. I'd rather have a plain used H310, but that is me.

 

Something like this.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-POWEREDGE-H310-8-PORT-6GBPS-SAS-SATA-RAID-CONTROLLER-UCSA-801/182889679836?hash=item2a95130bdc:g:5QQAAOSw43haBNuk

 

Mind you it's nice to have the ability to return it to Amazon which I imagine might be easier then returning it on eBay if they accept returns.

 

Edited by ashman70
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6 minutes ago, ashman70 said:

That should be ok, although if it were me, I'd just buy one off eBay that had been pulled out of a Dell server. Some of these can have different firmware on them which can lead to issues when trying to flash them. I'd rather have a plain used H310, but that is me.

 

Something like this.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-POWEREDGE-H310-8-PORT-6GBPS-SAS-SATA-RAID-CONTROLLER-UCSA-801/182889679836?hash=item2a95130bdc:g:5QQAAOSw43haBNuk

 

Mind you it's nice to have the ability to return it to Amazon which I imagine might be easier then returning it on eBay if they accept returns.

 

I'll give the one on amazon a try since it shouldn't be an issue to return.  How can you tell if that one wasn't pulled off a dell server?  It looks just like the one you linked.

 

Also grabbing this to toss in place of the cd drive: https://www.amazon.com/ICY-DOCK-Backplane-Comparable-Tray-less/dp/B00V5JHOXQ/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1511326299&sr=1-7&keywords=5.25+drive+ssd

Will even match the case nicely!

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Oh I see, so it may not have the standard dell flash on there that the instructions go through.  Well I'll figure that out when I get it.

 

I've got 2 extra SATA ports on the motherboard, so I could swap some SSDs around and just use 2, but I think I'm just going to buy a 4 port SATA card for the motherboard and use that instead.

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2 minutes ago, ashman70 said:

Just an FYI, these Dell servers are not as 'open'  or flexible with hardware as a regular PC. You may run into some road blocks dealing with the BIOS but I hope not.

Grabbed this 4-port SATA card.  If it doesn't work then I'll look around until I can find one, or make do with 2 cache drives (which would be fine too).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AZ9T3OU/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Totally forgot to ask this earlier, but is there a drive size limit with the controller after I flash it?  I don't have anything over 2Tb at the moment, but was thinking of getting some bigger drives after I get this beast setup and it would be a shame if I can't use 4Tb drives.

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21 hours ago, lordbob75 said:

Grabbed this 4-port SATA card.  If it doesn't work then I'll look around until I can find one, or make do with 2 cache drives (which would be fine too).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AZ9T3OU/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Totally forgot to ask this earlier, but is there a drive size limit with the controller after I flash it?  I don't have anything over 2Tb at the moment, but was thinking of getting some bigger drives after I get this beast setup and it would be a shame if I can't use 4Tb drives.

That controller mentions "Marvel" in the description.  Marvel controllers are NOT recommended with unRAID v6+ servers you could have problems but may not.  They work fine with 32 bit unRAID v5 servers.

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Just now, BobPhoenix said:

That controller mentions "Marvel" in the description.  Marvel controllers are NOT recommended with unRAID v6+ servers you could have problems but may not.  They work fine with 32 bit unRAID v5 servers.

Interesting....  What sort of issues would it cause?  What are the recommended controllers for v6 64bit?  I'm on 6.3.5 and I'm assuming I'm on the 64bit version but I don't recall even seeing a 32bit option...

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16 minutes ago, lordbob75 said:

Interesting....  What sort of issues would it cause?  What are the recommended controllers for v6 64bit?  I'm on 6.3.5 and I'm assuming I'm on the 64bit version but I don't recall even seeing a 32bit option...

Check this thread:

https://forums.lime-technology.com/topic/59091-marvel-issues-starting-point-for-investigation/

and this one:

https://forums.lime-technology.com/topic/39003-marvell-disk-controller-chipsets-and-virtualization/

 

For me the drives would drop at random intervals.  If I'd had them as array drives I would have been forever running parity checks to recover.  Luckily I had my Marvel controller going to a VM so it was only a nuisance to that VM and the fact to recover from it I had to restart the whole server not just the VM.  There are work arounds that are supposed to help one of which is to turn off virtualization in the BIOS of the MB which obviously wouldn't work for me.

 

The recommended controllers are LSI based like the Dell H310 controller which has to be cross flashed to an LSI 9211-8i.  I use LSI 9201-16i's as they don't need to be flashed.  The -8i version also does not need to be flashed and therefor is plug and play with unRAID.

Edited by BobPhoenix
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5 minutes ago, BobPhoenix said:

Check this thread:

https://forums.lime-technology.com/topic/59091-marvel-issues-starting-point-for-investigation/

and this one:

https://forums.lime-technology.com/topic/39003-marvell-disk-controller-chipsets-and-virtualization/

 

For me the drives would drop at random intervals.  If I'd had them as array drives I would have been forever running parity checks to recover.  Luckily I had my Marvel controller going to a VM so it was only a nuisance to that VM and the fact to recover from it I had to restart the whole server not just the VM.  There are work arounds that are supposed to help one of which is to turn off virtualization in the BIOS of the MB which obviously would work for me.

Wow that's a gross bug.

 

Well this controller is for my 2/3 cache drives and won't be used for the general array, and my cache drives are 256g/128g/60g SSDs, but it looks like they all have the ATA8-ACS version that had the issue.

 

Is there a recommended type of card that doesn't have this issue?  I may still give this one a try and keep an eye out for them dropping, but I'm not super keen on hardware that may give out randomly at any time either...

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Just now, BobPhoenix said:

Use MB connectors for SSDs so that TRIM works on them it doesn't unless you have a option that is usually only available on Enterprize SSDs with LSI controller.  Array drives use MB or LSI controller.

Yea, all of my array drives will be on the controller with just the SSDs on the adapter.  I only have 2 SATA ports on the motherboard, thus the need for the controller card for the 3rd SSD.  Now, one of my cache drives is just 60G, so I could swap things around and have just 2 SSDs, but I'd also like to be able to add more SATA ports if needed.   Is there an adapter card that supports TRIM?  Actually, is TRIM through the BIOS?  I know there is a setting for it in UnRAID, but I'm not actually sure...

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I've seen this one recommended on the forums (or a variant), but I can't tell if it uses the same controller as the marvell one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003GS8VA4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

If that one doesn't have the same problem then I can just grab one of those and return the marvell one.

 

Edit: Nevermind, that one is marvell too.  Are the only non-marvell ones the more expensive server-grade controllers?

Edited by lordbob75
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Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way.  Would it be possible to get either a 2nd controller card (like the H310, not a marvell) or return the one I bought and get one card that can do more than 8 drives?  I could get a 3rd breakout cable and plug it into the back of the icy dock with the other 2 going to the HDD array (dell case), right?  Or is that not possible either?

 

Totally should have thought more about compatibility apparently, but at least I'm learning haha.

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The LSI 9201-16i can handle 16 drives at a time.  But LSI cards (of the 9201 vintage anyway) do not allow the TRIM operation (you do TRIM from unRAID not BIOS) to work correctly unless you have Enterprize SSDs with a specific capability.  @johnnie.black could give you the exact name and it is posted on the forums I just haven't had time to find one of his posts that have it.  Asmedia cards don't have the Marvel bug so they might be an option but they may not support trim either.  Maybe @johnnie.black could tell you if they (Asmedia controllers) support TRIM.  If you do decide to get a -16i and want cheaper prices then try eBay but go for NON-China seller and a used server pull.  There have been reports of the China ones being counterfeit boards - why I have purchased server pulls from US sellers on eBay.

 

If I still haven't answered ALL of your questions let me know what I still need to answer and I will attempt to answer them.  But maybe tomorrow before I get to them.

Edited by BobPhoenix
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3 minutes ago, BobPhoenix said:

The LSI 9201-16i can handle 16 drives at a time.  But LSI cards (of the 9201 vintage anyway) do not allow the TRIM operation (you do TRIM from unRAID not BIOS) to work correctly unless you have Enterprize SSDs with a specific capability.  @johnnie.black could give you the exact name and it is posted on the forums I just haven't had time to find one of his posts that have it.  Asmedia cards don't have the Marvel bug so they might be an option but they may not support trim either.  Maybe @johnnie.black could tell you if they (Asmedia controllers) support TRIM.  If you do decide to get a -16i and want cheaper prices then try eBay but go for NON-China seller and a used server pull.  There have been reports of the China ones being counterfeit boards - why I have purchased server pulls from US sellers on eBay.

Well shit then, none of that is really optimal...

I can't find much on the Asmedia cards, though Tom's hardware says they work with TRIM.

 

For now I guess I'll give the marvell one I already ordered a try, and if I have issues then I'll just use 2 cache drives on the motherboard until I can find one that works (or just leave it).

 

Thanks mate.

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12 minutes ago, lordbob75 said:

Well shit then, none of that is really optimal...

I can't find much on the Asmedia cards, though Tom's hardware says they work with TRIM.

 

For now I guess I'll give the marvell one I already ordered a try, and if I have issues then I'll just use 2 cache drives on the motherboard until I can find one that works (or just leave it).

 

Thanks mate.

 

There is a card called the LSI 9305-16i (there is also a -24i and maybe others as well).

 

The card should handle trim.

 

Bad news is we're not 100% sure it is fully unRAID compatible, but Tom (Limetech) has loaded all of the required drivers, but cannot confirm support as he does not own this card.

 

He said he would work with someone that buys this card if they have problems with compatibility.

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3 hours ago, SSD said:

 

There is a card called the LSI 9305-16i (there is also a -24i and maybe others as well).

 

The card should handle trim.

 

Bad news is we're not 100% sure it is fully unRAID compatible, but Tom (Limetech) has loaded all of the required drivers, but cannot confirm support as he does not own this card.

 

He said he would work with someone that buys this card if they have problems with compatibility.

That card is a fair bit more than I want to spend on this, especially since I could live with just the 2 cache drives.  It's a nice offer though, might take him up on it if the card wasn't well over $400 (though I didn't look super hard).  Sounds like 2 LSI 9207-8i's would be the better option anyways.

 

4 minutes ago, johnnie.black said:

Asmedia supports trim, LSI based on SAS2308 chipset also support trim, e.g., LSI 9207-8i.

Excellent, thanks.  I hadn't seen a firm answer on this earlier, but I can use 2 controller cards at the same time right?  I could just pick up one of those and toss it in.

I know that you need to flash the H310 to get it to work with unraid, but do you need to flash the LSI 9207-8i?  If not, I'd rather just pick up 2 new ones off amazon instead of dealing with flashing the H310.  That would actually finish off this build nicely as I could add up to 8 SSDs to the server, which would be awesome.

 

Thanks!

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Just now, johnnie.black said:

 

No, it's IT mode only, plug'n play.

Well then screw it, I'm using this one.

 

I really need to know if I can use 2 controllers or if I need an expansion card and 1 controller though.

I know the 8i can do 8 drives, so it makes sense that I can't use an expansion card, but maybe the expansion card does allow that?

It looks like you can actually use 2 controllers in a server, but does UnRAID allow that?

 

Basically, do I need to get 2 of those controllers, or 1 controller and an expansion, or 1 bigger controller for 16 drives?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but I appreciate the assistance.

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