Best way to extend VM display to TV and/or Monitor


surfshack66

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Lets say I have two VMs on Unraid. One running Windows 10 for the office monitor and one running libreelec (kodi) for the living room TV.

 

What is the best way to control/view the VMs if I have cat6 wired to each location from the basement? Also, I would put the unraid server in the basement.

 

FWIW -  I have two runs of cat6 to each location.

Also, lets assume the libreelec VM to TV would need to support 4k 60hz (using HDMI since the TV has HDMI ports) and Windows 10 VM 1440p (using DisplayPort for the monitor)

Edited by surfshack66
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Run HDMI. The Ethernet options require point to point cat6+ runs, the converters run very hot, you may have HDCP/passthrough issues, and 4K is very expensive. And you may have quality issues.

 

Run long HDMI cables you solve all that. It's s pay me know or pay me later decision.

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35 minutes ago, SSD said:

Run HDMI. The Ethernet options require point to point cat6+ runs, the converters run very hot, you may have HDCP/passthrough issues, and 4K is very expensive. And you may have quality issues.

 

Run long HDMI cables you solve all that. It's s pay me know or pay me later decision.

I can run HDMI and USB from my unraid tower (specifically a gtx 970 passed through to libreelec) straight to the tv.

 

The office monitor, however, is on the third floor so running HDMI is easier said than done.

 

2 hours ago, wayner said:

HDMI to Ethernet baluns?  You may also need to transmit USB over the Ethernet as well.  Going 4K will make this a lot more expensive.  Many of these types of products are often used for centralized video distribution and not so much for PCs - they may introduce some latency.

I was looking into this on amazon. I believe this would solve the problem of getting hdmi and usb to the monitor from the basement. Claims uncompressed 4k 60hz (even though I only need 1440p)

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For Librelec you may not need the USB as you can likely use some for of IP control.  

 

That AV Access system looks like it may work but that is more for AV than for PCs.  The issue might be getting USB up to your office unless you can use the RS232 serial ports for mouse and keyboard.  The RS232 would generally be used for serial control of a TV or AVR.  It does not support the better HDR formats but that may not matter for you.  The only issue is that the price looks too good to be true.  I would have expected something like this to be at least $500 if it supports 4K.  But it is on Amazon and it is pretty painless to send it back if it doesn't work.

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2 minutes ago, wayner said:

For Librelec you may not need the USB as you can likely use some for of IP control.  

 

That AV Access system looks like it may work but that is more for AV than for PCs.  The issue might be getting USB up to your office unless you can use the RS232 serial ports for mouse and keyboard.  The RS232 would generally be used for serial control of a TV or AVR.  It does not support the better HDR formats but that may not matter for you.  The only issue is that the price looks too good to be true.  I would have expected something like this to be at least $500 if it supports 4K.  But it is on Amazon and it is pretty painless to send it back if it doesn't work.

I was planning on use flirc with the usb extender to LE.

 

You're right, though. I don't think this will work due to the lack of USB (not sure how I missed that).

 

@wayner Do any products come to mind? I would like to utilize the cat 6 runs  if I can achieve the same results as running dedicated hdmi.

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33 minutes ago, surfshack66 said:

I can run HDMI and USB from my unraid tower (specifically a gtx 970 passed through to libreelec) straight to the tv.

 

The office monitor, however, is on the third floor so running HDMI is easier said than done.

 

I was looking into this on amazon. I believe this would solve the problem of getting hdmi and usb to the monitor from the basement. Claims uncompressed 4k 60hz (even though I only need 1440p)

 

Doesn't look bad. 78% gave it 4 or 5 rating, so not slam dunk great but pretty good in this space. Price not bad at all.

 

There were issues with latest Apple TV, with HDR, with  some 4K, with some game consoles,  and with runs over 50'. No mention of heat, but other units get very hot and wear out quickly. I expect this one will get hot also.

 

Didn't say but I expect it won't work with a splitter (e.g., running dup.video feed into a bedroom). Read the fine print if this is a desired use case.

For 4k applications my advice is still HDMI run. Hire someone. They can run it through the walls. Cost couple hundred. Maybe they can install a pull tube/wire for future replacement or running another cable. Look at the monoprice CL2 long HDMI 4k cables. Work great. Self powered. Nothing beats native!

 

This box is better for 1080p, but factor in replacing the box every few years and the guessing if your wiring is going to work with new products. Ask yourself if this a permanent solution or just delaying a cost they well likely get higher with time. Often you can locate a small media player near the monitor, feed it network, and is can play media directly. Think of it as a different kind of Ethernet to HDMI converter! That would be second choice.

 

Did I mention not being a fan on running HDMI OVER ethernet? 

 

YMMV. Just giving my advice which is worth at least what you are paying  for it. ;-)

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33 minutes ago, SSD said:

Did I mention not being a fan on running HDMI OVER ethernet? 

In many ways I agree with you, but HDMI over Ethernet is very popular in high-end centralized video distribution which is often part of the Home Automation system in high-end homes.  I have a Control4 Home Automation system and while I do not have centralized video many of the folks who use Control4 do have these types of systems and spend tens of thousands to have them installed.  Systems like Leaf, Atlona and Just Add Power are three examples of this.  

 

The reason why I say this AV Access system looks too good to be true is that the Atlona Tx-Rx pair will set you back $725.  That's almost 5X the price of the AV Access product.

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4 minutes ago, wayner said:

In many ways I agree with you, but HDMI over Ethernet is very popular in high-end centralized video distribution which is often part of the Home Automation system in high-end homes.  I have a Control4 Home Automation system and while I do not have centralized video many of the folks who use Control4 do have these types of systems and spend tens of thousands to have them installed.  Systems like Leaf, Atlona and Just Add Power are three examples of this.  

 

The reason why I say this AV Access system looks too good to be true is that the Atlona Tx-Rx pair will set you back $725.  That's almost 5X the price of the AV Access product.

 

Monoprice sells a brand called BlackBird which is more expensive but seems like a more proven company that specializes in this type of equipment. ~2x the price of the one linked, and about 1/2 the price of the one you are quoting. They have a couple options. And it still get so-so ratings. I found that monoprice shoppers are pretty good reviewers and you get the real poop - as opposed to Amazon that I trust less.

 

If you are paying big $$$ for top equipment to do this, with people experienced in setting this up in a whole house configuration, and who will stand behind it - that's a different animal IMO.

 

Most expensive option is to buy the Ethernet solution, have it sorta work, and then get frustrated (or unit failure) and then pay to run the cable 2 years from now.

 

One of the big negatives for me is the sheer heat these things generate. One of the wonderful things about my Windows VM is it gets my hot computer out of my study. Having a hot coal (ethernet to HDM converter) partially defeats that benefit. It would demand at least a small fan IMO. And probably raise ambient several degrees if kept running 24x7. The box, after all IS a computer, doing a high powered 2-way signal conversion of a high bandwidth video signal (18.6 Gbps). It's probably equivalent to a GPU!

 

BTW, here are the HDMI cables I recommend for long runs ...

 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12735

 

 

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And if it is generating that much heat then it is probably burning a lot of electricity.  If that is the case you might be better off getting a NUC PC and hide it away in the office - you can get pretty powerful units as well.  I kind of like the idea of having everything in one box in some ways, but then you really have all your eggs in one basket.  If your system goes down then you are really stuck.

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I like the idea of having everything in one box too, so that's the goal.

 

I wish I ran HDMI from the office when I renovated the house last year. Running HDMI to the living room TV will be easy because the basement ceiling is open. Office is out of the question....only because I ran all the cat6 cables myself so I know the path down to the basement...impossible to do without many many holes and even then I'd have to drill through some studs.

 

I suppose HDMI runs would work for my current situation (debatable for the office). However, I tend to think of scale-able solutions. For example, having to run HDMI to a TV or monitor in a guest house probably wouldn't work due to the limitations of HDMI. This is where AV over IP comes into play, but these solutions are expensive.

 

Looks like the solution is to run HDMI for the living room and HDMI balun for the office (I'll give this more thought before buying).

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1 hour ago, surfshack66 said:

I like the idea of having everything in one box too, so that's the goal.

 

I wish I ran HDMI from the office when I renovated the house last year. Running HDMI to the living room TV will be easy because the basement ceiling is open. Office is out of the question....only because I ran all the cat6 cables myself so I know the path down to the basement...impossible to do without many many holes and even then I'd have to drill through some studs.

 

I suppose HDMI runs would work for my current situation (debatable for the office). However, I tend to think of scale-able solutions. For example, having to run HDMI to a TV or monitor in a guest house probably wouldn't work due to the limitations of HDMI. This is where AV over IP comes into play, but these solutions are expensive.

 

Looks like the solution is to run HDMI for the living room and HDMI balun for the office (I'll give this more thought before buying).

What are you playing in the living room?  1080P or 4K?  How about investing in a set-top box e.g. a Mibox 3 or a KHADAS VIM2?  No need to mess around with cables then and an outlay of under $100/TV.

 

This is the route I've taken, and the only cables I have in my home are to my server which is up in the loft and from the switch upstairs back down to a Unifi AP downstairs (second is next to the server). I then have a mixture of Android TV and Fire TVs (replacing slowly with Android devices) on each TV.

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15 minutes ago, DZMM said:

What are you playing in the living room?  1080P or 4K?  How about investing in a set-top box e.g. a Mibox 3 or a KHADAS VIM2?  No need to mess around with cables then and an outlay of under $100/TV.

 

This is the route I've taken, and the only cables I have in my home are to my server which is up in the loft and from the switch upstairs back down to a Unifi AP downstairs (second is next to the server). I then have a mixture of Android TV and Fire TVs (replacing slowly with Android devices) on each TV.

I kind of agree - I think it is just easier and cheaper to have local sources - unless you want to have playback synched across multiple rooms/devices.

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Just now, DZMM said:

What are you playing in the living room?  1080P or 4K?  How about investing in a set-top box e.g. a Mibox 3 or a KHADAS VIM2?  No need to mess around with cables then and an outlay of under $100/TV.

 

This is the route I've taken, and the only cables I have in my home are to my server which is up in the loft and from the switch upstairs back down to a Unifi AP downstairs (second is next to the server). I then have a mixture of Android TV and Fire TVs (replacing slowly with Android devices) on each TV.

I have a Vizio P55-E1, which is 4K. My tower is an i7 4790k and gtx 970, both of which I'm under utilizing at the moment. I was hoping to use my existing hardware as an HTPC and workstation, instead of having to buy additional.. But if I can achieve the same (if not better) video/quality performance with a set-top box, then I'll certainly consider.

 

Over the past day or two, I've been researching Kodi on Windows (which would be a VM on the unraid tower) with MPC-HC and madVR. This might be overkill but its interesting.

 

That being said, I do like the KHADAS VIM2. Mibox 3 is wireless only and since I have available ethernet ports I prefer to use that.

 

@DZMM Which set-top box do you use?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, surfshack66 said:

Mibox 3 is wireless only and since I have available ethernet ports I prefer to use that.

That's true but you can buy a <$10 ethernet-USB adapter and use it with the MiBox3.  I have one of these and I quite like it.  The other thing to keep in mind is that these STBs are made to be controlled with a remote control and they have a 10-foot UI.  With a PC you are still going to need a keyboard or mouse from time to time, which isn't convenient in a living room and sitting on the couch you may not be able to read filename to launch.  I love MPC-HC (too bad it is now dead) but it isn't made to be used with a remote control.  I have HTPCs in both my Home Theatre room and my Master Bedroom but I don't use them very often as other devices just work better in those environments.

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12 minutes ago, surfshack66 said:

 

That being said, I do like the KHADAS VIM2. Mibox 3 is wireless only and since I have available ethernet ports I prefer to use that.

 

@DZMM Which set-top box do you use?

 

 

I have a mibox 3 as my main box and it's handled my limited 4k fine so far.  Don't knock wireless if you've got good wifi!  Other rooms have fire TV, 2xfire TV stick and a Samsung smart TV for Plex. 

 

The fire devices are 1st Gen - the fire TV is fine with 1080p kodi, but the sticks  starting to struggle a bit with kodi (ok with Plex) -  I'm going to upgrade the mibox 3 to a Nvidia or something else, mainly because I want better Google home integration and I need to start replacing the fire sticks.

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9 minutes ago, wayner said:

That's true but you can buy a <$10 ethernet-USB adapter and use it with the MiBox3.  I have one of these and I quite like it.  The other thing to keep in mind is that these STBs are made to be controlled with a remote control and they have a 10-foot UI.  With a PC you are still going to need a keyboard or mouse from time to time, which isn't convenient in a living room and sitting on the couch you may not be able to read filename to launch.  I love MPC-HC (too bad it is now dead) but it isn't made to be used with a remote control.  I have HTPCs in both my Home Theatre room and my Master Bedroom but I don't use them very often as other devices just work better in those environments.

I saw those adapters too when looking up the MiBox..certainly an option.

 

I was reviewing this guide https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=209596 which explains how to use MPC-HC as an external player in Kodi (also has a section on how to program a remote)

 

So you have a dedicated HTPC in your Home Theatre, yet you use a different device? Which one? Performance/quality the same?

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The main device that I use is SageTV  extenders - HD200 or HD300.  SageTV is the best PC based software to record TV and it is easier to just use SageTV for all video content although I do have Plex running and could use Plex as well and (arguably) Plex is better for playing back movies.  Like Plex SageTV is a client-server configuration so that makes it easy to use at multiple TVs.

 

I have two cable boxes hooked up to my SageTV server plus I have an HDHR OTA tuner.  I have played with Kodi from time to time but haven't gone to it.  You can run SageTV on a PC (SageTV Client) but it is just easier to use an extender as they "just work".  They work perfectly well with a Harmony remote control, or their own remote control, you don't have to worry about OS upgrades or futz around with codecs, and they don't have hard drives or SSDs that die after a while.  I run SageTV server in a Docker on my unRAID server.

 

But the SageTV extenders don't do 4K so I won't be able to use them in the future where I want 4K.  But there is a SageTV client for AndroidTV (MiBox or Nvidia Shield) and that is what I will likely go to in the future.

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I guess I have this requirement? https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=325077

 

Also, I've been looking at the different options here https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=252916. Looks like AMLogic S905X / S905D / S912 running the preferred LibreELEC is recommended all around.

 

That being said, the VIM2 @DZMM mentioned seems to be a winner. Thanks for suggesting set-top boxes. From the brief research I've done, I even think the VIM2 is better than the hardware I have in the tower for 10bit HEVC (H.265)....go figure. I would have thought the $$ I spent on that hardware is more capable than a $120 device..

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