New build - go with unRAID?

[bonzovt]

I'm looking to build a new machine, already have 3 x 2 TB HDD, a 128 GB SSD and acquired a 1 TB SSD.  Will probably pick up another 2+ TB HDD as well.  I'm a fairly basic user although in my job I work a lot with virtualization / storage.  I was just going to build a new Windows box with lots of storage, but have considered unRAID for a singular box.  I still want to be able to run Windows and utilize SSD for that, but also want a good amount of space for music/photos/videos, etc.  Also interested in running some Docker apps rather than installing local to Windows OS.  Would I be able to do that with unRAID by putting the Win OS on the 1 TB SSD (passthrough?) and using the rest with unRAID?  Is there enough good reason to do something like this and still get good use out of all the storage I have?

[jebusfreek666]

I am fairly new to this whole UnRaid world as well. But just from what I have seen/read, it would probably be easiest if you ran a windows VM on UnRaid which is completely doable. And fairly easy. Will probably come down to what CPU your running though.

[tdallen]

4 hours ago, bonzovt said:

I'm looking to build a new machine, already have 3 x 2 TB HDD, a 128 GB SSD and acquired a 1 TB SSD.  Will probably pick up another 2+ TB HDD as well.  I'm a fairly basic user although in my job I work a lot with virtualization / storage.  I was just going to build a new Windows box with lots of storage, but have considered unRAID for a singular box.  I still want to be able to run Windows and utilize SSD for that, but also want a good amount of space for music/photos/videos, etc.  Also interested in running some Docker apps rather than installing local to Windows OS.  Would I be able to do that with unRAID by putting the Win OS on the 1 TB SSD (passthrough?) and using the rest with unRAID?  Is there enough good reason to do something like this and still get good use out of all the storage I have?

You're describing the "new standard" use case for unRAID with VMs, lots of people are doing exactly that.  As @jebusfreek666 mentions, though, picking the right motherboard, CPU, and graphics options is important to running unRAID with hardware pass-through to a VM.  You also need to be prepared to do some tinkering to get it all to work.

[bonzovt]

agreed, and i'm not at all opposed to tinkering a bit.  im just wondering though, with a pass-though to a VM, when i boot my machine can i set it to auto launch that VM so that i get the same experience as if i just powered on a windows desktop?  or will i basically boot to some unRAID console and have to hop to the VM from there?  i was planning on a completely new build, but i guess i could always keep my 8 year old desktop and wipe/reload win 10 to have just as a local jump box if need be.

[Squid]

5 minutes ago, bonzovt said:

when i boot my machine can i set it to auto launch that VM

yes

[SSD]

15 hours ago, bonzovt said:

agreed, and i'm not at all opposed to tinkering a bit.  im just wondering though, with a pass-though to a VM, when i boot my machine can i set it to auto launch that VM so that i get the same experience as if i just powered on a windows desktop?  or will i basically boot to some unRAID console and have to hop to the VM from there?  i was planning on a completely new build, but i guess i could always keep my 8 year old desktop and wipe/reload win 10 to have just as a local jump box if need be.

 

Yes, you can create this experience. I have a single GPU and pass thru it and a USB controller that contains a Logitech unifying receiver for keyboard / mouse to my VM. The boot can be seen on the monitor, and controlled with the wireless keyboard and mouse. When VM starts, it takes control of the monitor and keyboard / mouse.

 

To do what you are requesting unRaid would have to be set to autostart the array, and the VM set to auto start as well. Both configurable. I actually don't autostart them. When I am doing upgrades or diagnosis that can require a lot of boots, I don't want the autostart behavior. The server runs 24x7, and only needs to boot on OS upgrades / power outages, so it is quite rare I do a reboot where I wouldn't like to at least look around and make sure everything is in good working order before starting the array and VM.

 

Note that controlling the server is done through a browser. The server console is not a substitute. You need a computer (or phone or tablet) to control it. Normally I control it with a Surface that acts as my physical Windows box when needed. But you can boot unRaid into GUI mode which presents a browser gui on the unRaid server after boot. I've never played with it much, but it might reduce the need for a backup machine even if the autostart options are not enabled (which I mildly discourage).

[bonzovt]

i have a work laptop and some other tablets i could use, so this won't be my ONLY machine available.  in this instance, what would be the optimal disk configuration?  i believe i would need my HDD disks set as array devices and would both SSD disks need to be cache devices?  i may be wrong, but i thought i saw in the docs that a SSD disk cant be an array device?  i'm just wondering if having one 128 GB SSD and a 1 TB SSD set both as cache devices would somehow not get the full utilization out of the 1 TB SSD.  or if somehow i can set my VMs to all run on an SSD disk versus the HDD devices.

[tdallen]

1 hour ago, bonzovt said:

i'm just wondering if having one 128 GB SSD and a 1 TB SSD set both as cache devices would somehow not get the full utilization out of the 1 TB SSD

You are correct to wonder about that.  In a default BTRFS RAID-1 setup, there are always two copies of your files on different devices.  So that setup would effectively limit your use of the 1TB SSD.  A better solution would be to use one of the SSDs as your cache drive and mount the other via Unassigned Devices .

[trurl]

You could do btrfs raid0 but my opinion would be to not use the 128 at all just to simplify.

[bonzovt]

If I don't use the 128 GB disk at all, then is a 1 TB SSD as my cache drive not really an effective use of that disk?  If I have 128 GB cache and use the 1 TB SSD as unassigned like @tdallen mentioned, then would I be able to create VMs to run off the 1 TB SSD and use the 128 GB as the cache disk?

[trurl]

26 minutes ago, bonzovt said:

If I don't use the 128 GB disk at all, then is a 1 TB SSD as my cache drive not really an effective use of that disk?  If I have 128 GB cache and use the 1 TB SSD as unassigned like @tdallen mentioned, then would I be able to create VMs to run off the 1 TB SSD and use the 128 GB as the cache disk?

You could do that, but you could also do VMs on just the 1TB as cache, so "simpler".

[bonzovt]

9 hours ago, trurl said:

You could do that, but you could also do VMs on just the 1TB as cache, so "simpler".

 

@trurl so unRAID is capable of using one drive for cache as well as running VMs direct off the same drive?  does it just basically allocate the size of any VMs you have and dedicate that space on the drive, then use whatever is left over for cache?

[JonathanM]

8 minutes ago, bonzovt said:

does it just basically allocate the size of any VMs you have any dedicate that space and then use whatever is left over for cache?

The VM's use disk image files as their drives. The image files act like any other sparse files, they only actually consume what is in use inside the file, and the rest of the space can be used for other files, be it docker application data or files intended to end up on the protected array after the mover runs.

[bonzovt]

awesome, thanks for the help!!  i guess the only other thing i can't quite wrap my head around is pass-through video to a VM.  can you use onboard video for that if you are just looking for basic display settings on the VM?  i wont be using the VM for any kind of gaming or GPU intensive stuff.  i saw the requirements saying that onboard is NOT supported for a hybrid VM, but wasn't sure if that was only in the case of trying to pass through a gpu solely for use on that VM?

[tr0910]

awesome, thanks for the help!!  i guess the only other thing i can't quite wrap my head around is pass-through video to a VM.  can you use onboard video for that if you are just looking for basic display settings on the VM?  i wont be using the VM for any kind of gaming or GPU intensive stuff.  i saw the requirements saying that onboard is NOT supported for a hybrid VM, but wasn't sure if that was only in the case of trying to pass through a gpu solely for use on that VM?

VM GPU passthrough is for gamers mainly. And you need to have the unRaid server close by as you need to cable a monitor and keyboard and mouse directly if you go that route.

But if you don't passthrough a GPU, you can connect over the lan via RDP from a laptop or another computer. RDP or the lower performance VNC options are far more flexible. You do give up a little video performance for the flexibility. For example you'll notice a little video sluggishness in Photoshop, but MS Office runs like normal.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[manfat]

6 hours ago, tr0910 said:

VM GPU passthrough is for gamers mainly. And you need to have the unRaid server close by as you need to cable a monitor and keyboard and mouse directly if you go that route.

But if you don't passthrough a GPU, you can connect over the lan via RDP from a laptop or another computer. RDP or the lower performance VNC options are far more flexible. You do give up a little video performance for the flexibility. For example you'll notice a little video sluggishness in Photoshop, but MS Office runs like normal.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

 

Hi,

 

I tested GPU pass-through and I found the main challenge apart from figuring out the PCI device strings was finding a HDMI cable long enough to get from the server to the monitor.

Keyboard and mouse can be shared over the LAN using some excellent software called Synergy, which I was already using between two physical machines before but it seems very difficult to display from a GPU without using a really long HDMI cable - so where you will place your server is a key consideration if you really want GPU pass-through (as well as ensuring your hardware is fully compatible). I have a friend with unRAID who keeps his rig in his loft and runs really long cables down into a bedroom for GPU pass-through gaming. 

On another note the RDP front, I've had a VM running Windows Server 2016 that just needed the virtio accelerated driver ISO image from Red Hat and was up and running in no time. 

To be honest I wasted money on the GPU passthrough idea so glad I only got a mid range GPU and not a power hungry beast! I just don't game as much as I thought I might do.  

The killer app for me on unRAID so far is the Plex docker (especially when integrated with Radarr and rTorrent+VPN dockers!). If you've never heard of these things, I seriously recommend looking them up as I'm now addicted to building up a media library and filling my basic 4.5TB array so that I can justify building a much bigger rig

 

If you have any doubt about whether unRAID will be worth it, get the trial version and play around with that.

 

I am a very happy customer so far (after first couple of months) with the basic license version (up to 6 disks) . 

 

M

[bonzovt]

thanks @manfat ... very helpful, that is my plan, i currently have an older PC with a mish-mash of stand alone disks that i want to get better control of.  when i get my new build, i'll be able to use the 1 TB ssd for cache and 2 hdds for the array to start so that i can build a windows VM and test everything out a bit.  i'm assuming all will go well and if so, i'll just start migrating data over to the array and adding disks once they are available.

 

for "auto launching" the windows VM, is there just some way to have a VNC client auto connect when the server powers on as well?

[bonzovt]

@SSD @tdallen just to make sure i'm on the right path here, if i can get the GPU passthrough to work for a Windows VM, i "should" be able to hook a monitor up direct to my physical unRAID box and run the VM direct from there?  no need for RDP or VNC at that point, correct?

[tdallen]

Yep, that's the basic approach for pass-through.

[SSD]

4 hours ago, bonzovt said:

@SSD @tdallen just to make sure i'm on the right path here, if i can get the GPU passthrough to work for a Windows VM, i "should" be able to hook a monitor up direct to my physical unRAID box and run the VM direct from there?  no need for RDP or VNC at that point, correct?

 

GPU is half of the challenge, the other half is keyboard / mouse. You could need to pass through a USB port to be able to control the VM.

 

There may be a way to assign specific USB devices to the USB, but I had trouble with them maintaining connection, and had some mild mouse jerkiness that ruined the experience for me. Even if feasible to run without USB passthrough, I would get this setup also.

[Jcloud]

On 2/25/2018 at 5:00 AM, bonzovt said:

I'm looking to build a new machine, already have 3 x 2 TB HDD, a 128 GB SSD and acquired a 1 TB SSD.  Will probably pick up another 2+ TB HDD as well.  I'm a fairly basic user although in my job I work a lot with virtualization / storage.  I was just going to build a new Windows box with lots of storage, but have considered unRAID for a singular box.  I still want to be able to run Windows and utilize SSD for that, but also want a good amount of space for music/photos/videos, etc.  Also interested in running some Docker apps rather than installing local to Windows OS.  Would I be able to do that with unRAID by putting the Win OS on the 1 TB SSD (passthrough?) and using the rest with unRAID?

With the exception of passing through SSD for the VM, you've basically described how I've been using unRAID since I got my license.

 

Quote

@trurl so unRAID is capable of using one drive for cache as well as running VMs direct off the same drive?

unRAID can make image files for virtual machines which are stored on the cache pool. The guest OS sits inside the virtual hard drive file; this is what I do for my VMs. Makes backup a snap, shutdown the VM go into file browser on the unRAID side and make a copy of the image file onto disk array, start VM back up. Virtual disk file is set in size at creation of VM, it can be later expanded if you run out of space, with some CLI-kung-fu. I usually make a 30-45GB file for OS and installing programs, but ditch defaults for user data locations and just store it on my disk array as a network drive.