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jeffreywhunter

Windows 10 Spring Update 2018 - Changes [SOLVED]

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Posted (edited)

Thank you - Micro$oft for screwing up my computer again!!!  Ugh.  In addition to completely resetting my desktop/deleting taskbar settings, they have eliminated homegroups with the latest update, so now I can't see my server in File Manager any more.  I am able to create a desktop folder to the Unraid server (not bad), but wondering if anyone has come up with a better solution...  (Sorry, not going to drink the apple coolaid!)...  ;)

 

 

Edited by jeffreywhunter

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38 minutes ago, jeffreywhunter said:

Thank you - Micro$oft for screwing up my computer again!!!  Ugh.  In addition to completely resetting my desktop/deleting taskbar settings, they have eliminated homegroups with the latest update, so now I can't see my server in File Manager any more.  I am able to create a desktop folder to the Unraid server (not bad), but wondering if anyone has come up with a better solution...  (Sorry, not going to drink the apple coolaid!)...  ;)

 

 

 

Perhaps this will be helpful:

 

By default,  computers in your local network should be visible when you browse for a network device with File Explorer. With recent changes in Windows 10 version 1803 some computers are only accessible via their names or IP addresses. To fix this annoying issue, you can apply a simple workaround.

Fix Network Computers are Not Visible in Windows 10 Version 1803

  1. Press Win + R to open the Run dialog.
  2. Type services.msc in the Run box and hit the Enter key.Run Services Msc
  3. In the Services window, scroll down to the Function Discovery Resource Publication service.
  4. Double-click it to open its properties and set its startup type to Automatic.Network Computers Are Not Visible In Windows 10 Version 1803
  5. Now, start the service.Fix Network Computers Are Not Visible In Windows 10 Version 1803

You are done!

 

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I'm puzzled by the description of that service. It says it's to do with advertising that computer and its resources, not the discovery of others.

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I'm puzzled by the description of that service. It says it's to do with advertising that computer and its resources, not the discovery of others.


True. I have no idea if it will really help or not. It was mentioned in a blog by someone who had missing network computers as a way to see them after updating to 1803 on one machine.

There have been so many complaints about Win 10 1803 that my solution was to delay new feature updates for 365 days in Updates & Security>Advanced Options. I think I’ll avoid this update until the dust settles.

For those who have installed 1803 perhaps a rollback to 1709 is the best solution. I have a recent 1709 full backup just in case.


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Posted (edited)

Well, considering unRAID wouldn't be in Homegroup in the first place, it's more likely a DNS issue that's preventing your machines appearing in Network Neighbourhood.  An old IT saying is "It's always DNS".

 

1803 works fine for me on both machines that have had it, even on my Lenovo T470 with the supposedly unsupported Intel 600p NVMe SSD. 

Edited by HellDiverUK

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2 hours ago, HellDiverUK said:

Well, considering unRAID wouldn't be in Homegroup in the first place, it's more likely a DNS issue that's preventing your machines appearing in Network Neighbourhood.  An old IT saying is "It's always DNS".

 

1803 works fine for me on both machines that have had it, even on my Lenovo T470 with the supposedly unsupported Intel 600p NVMe SSD. 

 

I've added my server to the top of the ETC Hosts file, but still don't see it in Windows 10 Network folder.  Do you see yours there?  What else should be changed to make it work?  Perhaps the SMB v3.0 fix needs to be reapplied?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jeffreywhunter said:

 

I've added my server to the top of the ETC Hosts file, but still don't see it in Windows 10 Network folder.  Do you see yours there?  What else should be changed to make it work?  Perhaps the SMB v3.0 fix needs to be reapplied?

 

unRAID also seems to prefer SMB v1.0.  My unRAID server was missing in Windows Explorer Networks with Win 10 1709 until I re-enabled SMB 1.0/CIFS via Control Panel>Turn Windows features on or off.  Recent Windows 10 versions tend to have that turned off.  After I re-enabled it on all Windows 10 machines, my unRAID server appeared again on those machines.

 

Perhaps you would prefer to have SMB 1.0 disabled for security reasons, but, I have personally had more success with unRAID with it enabled.

Edited by Hoopster

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11 hours ago, Hoopster said:

 

Perhaps this will be helpful:

 

 

I tried this.  It does not seem to make any difference.  From the start, I can access the unraid server by typing in \\[servername].  As you can see in the image below, when I type in the name, then it shows up in the File Explorer Network section (greeen arrow - it is not there until I type it in the search bar).  I've also been able to map drives (red arrows).  After  a start of the service, no change.  Are you able to see the server in the network section right after the Win10 PC boots?

 

2018-05-14_09-56.thumb.jpg.f8cabc066128379f3d2cc42e670bbcd8.jpg

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jeffreywhunter said:

From the start, I can access the unraid server by typing in \\[servername].  As you can see in the image below, when I type in the name, then it shows up in the File Explorer Network section (greeen arrow - it is not there until I type it in the search bar).  I've also been able to map drives (red arrows).  After  a start of the service, no change.  Are you able to see the server in the network section right after the Win10 PC boots?

 

I had similar behavior with Win 10 1709 and the prior version.  I don't think this is an issue with just the 1803 release. Luckily for you it may just be the first release in which you have seen the problem.  Windows 10 networking has been a mess for a while.  As I said in my prior post, the solution, at least for me, has been to re-enable SMB 1.0/CIFS.

 

Also, I sometimes have to hit the F5 key in Windows Network to refresh the list.  In the past, I would only see the local machine (from all 3 of my Windows 10 computers) and nothing else in the network until I checked that network discovery (is this gone now in 1803?) was enabled on all machines, SMB 1.0 was enabled and I hit F5 to refresh the network list.  After a reboot, everything including unRAID server shows up in the network.

 

For a few months now, I have had no issues except occasionally needing to refresh with F5.

Edited by Hoopster
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21 minutes ago, Hoopster said:

 

I had similar behavior with Win 10 1709 and the prior version.  It don't think this is an issue with just the 1803 release. Luckily for you it may just be the first release in which you have seen the problem.  Windows 10 networking has been a mess for a while.  As I said in my prior post, the solution, at least for me, has been to re-enable SMB 1.0/CIFS.

 

Also, I sometimes have to hit the F5 key in Windows Network to refresh the list.  In the past, I would only see the local machine (from all 3 of my Windows 10 computers) and nothing else in the network until I checked that network discovery (is this gone now in 1803?) was enabled on all machines, SMB 1.0 was enabled and I hit F5 to refresh the network list.  After a reboot, everything including unRAID server shows up in the network.

 

For a few months now, I have had no issues except occasionally needing to refresh with F5.

 

I check and I had the 'client' side of SMB 1.0 started, but no the 'server' side.  Not sure why that would be.  Made the change and I'm seeing it now.  Perfect!

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8 minutes ago, jeffreywhunter said:

 

I check and I had the 'client' side of SMB 1.0 started, but no the 'server' side.  Not sure why that would be.  Made the change and I'm seeing it now.  Perfect!

 

Glad to hear it is working again.  After every major feature update, you may need to re-enable SMB 1.0/CIFS again.  It is often off by default after major updates.

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16 hours ago, jeffreywhunter said:

 

I've added my server to the top of the ETC Hosts file, but still don't see it in Windows 10 Network folder.  Do you see yours there?  What else should be changed to make it work?  Perhaps the SMB v3.0 fix needs to be reapplied?

 

I honestly think the last time I opened a HOSTS files was in Windows 98 days.  If you're relying on HOSTS then whatever you're using for DNS is broken.

 

Most people should be using their router as their DNS, and the router's DNS forwarder set to whatever DNS server you prefer (your ISP's, OpenDNS, Google, etc).  If you do it that way, then your router will do proper DNS for all the devices on your LAN, so you don't have to muck about with HOSTS. 

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5 hours ago, HellDiverUK said:

 

I honestly think the last time I opened a HOSTS files was in Windows 98 days.  If you're relying on HOSTS then whatever you're using for DNS is broken.

 

Most people should be using their router as their DNS, and the router's DNS forwarder set to whatever DNS server you prefer (your ISP's, OpenDNS, Google, etc).  If you do it that way, then your router will do proper DNS for all the devices on your LAN, so you don't have to muck about with HOSTS. 

 

I was grasping at straws on what the problem could have been.  Turns out that the spring update had messed with settings I had for SMB 1.0 and turned off the server side setting.  Once I turned that one, it works fine.

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Here is an example of an earlier issue with this same problem:

 

    https://lime-technology.com/forums/topic/53172-windows-issues-with-unraid/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-625264

 

 

Remember that Win10 is not a single animal (unlike what MS has most people believing) and not everyone is running the same version.  (I think there are currently four of these versions that MS is supporting!)   Plus there are also the Home, Pro, Enterprise and Education editions for each of these versions.  

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I'm having trouble getting this working after 1803 as well. At first I wasn't able to see my server (DVD) in the list. I went through most of what was discussed above and now have it showing in my list again, but when I try to access it I get the error: 0x80070035 Network path not found

 

If I plug the ip into my browser it pops right up to the unRAID GUI. Great and all, but I can't save any files to it from my Windows PC.

 

Everything was working perfect a week ago, now I've got this, along with a host of other problems (For the love of god enough with the automatic restarts 3-4 times a day for a defender definition update! I've tried just about everything I can to disable Auto reboots and no luck!  GYARRRrrr....)

 

Look, I'm no networking wiz or anything. It's kind of a miracle I was able to get unRAID up and running in the first place. Anybody got any ideas that might get me back on track?

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On 5/15/2018 at 8:22 AM, jeffreywhunter said:

 

I was grasping at straws on what the problem could have been.  Turns out that the spring update had messed with settings I had for SMB 1.0 and turned off the server side setting.  Once I turned that one, it works fine.

 

Did you follow the steps in this discussion?  The advice helped me solve my problem.  Give it a go and see what happens.  Especially the SMB 1.0 Server/Client settings in your registry and making sure that SMB is started (see above).

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Yes, though I'm not sure if I've got it all running.

 

I added SMB1.0 back in via the win 10 program and features. That's what got me being able to see my unRAID server in my network list again. The problem is clicking on it causes file explorer to go into a long search and then popup the error message. I can see it, I just can't access it for some reason.

 

You mention registry tweaks and making sure SMB1 is started.

 

By registry, do you mean the services listed in the second post of this thread?  If so, done.

 

How do I verify SMB1 (client and Server) are started? Outside of Program and Features I can't find any other places where I would need to turn them on. As far as I know, both are running, but I have no way to verify (that I know of). As I said, I'm not all that swift when it comes to actual networking so a lot of this can go over my head with out some good "go here, type that, click there" type instructions. ?

 

Just out of curiosity, it seems as though windows has really been trying to get away from SMB1 in favor of SMB2 and 3, mostly due to security concerns (the details of which are beyond my understanding). Is there some specific reason unRAID isn't being made compatible with SMB2/3? It doesn't seem like Microsoft is going to be changing their position anytime soon on the matter and It's going to be a pain to have to fight this every time Windows comes out with a major update.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Harblar said:

Is there some specific reason unRAID isn't being made compatible with SMB2/3? It doesn't seem like Microsoft is going to be changing their position anytime soon on the matter and It's going to be a pain to have to fight this every time Windows comes out with a major update.

Microsoft broke computer discovery for everyone including other Windows installations, it's not specific to unRAID.

SMB1 was a dependency for MS's computer discovery service.

 

unRAID works just fine for me by merely adding the server name/ip to the HOSTS file of any windows machine wanting to connect to it.

Edited by tjb_altf4

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5 hours ago, tjb_altf4 said:

SMB1 was a dependency for MS's computer discovery service.

 

This should read:

 

          "SMB1 was   IS    a dependency for MS's computer discovery service"  With WIN10, every time, MS updates SMB, they turn SMB1 off again and, to add insult to injury, they turn off the service that does Computer Discovery process to boot.  

 

5 hours ago, tjb_altf4 said:

Microsoft broke computer discovery for everyone including other Windows installations, it's not specific to unRAID.

 

With my WIN7 computers, I ended up having  to setting up a 'Home' network connection (rather than a 'Work' network) for the WIN7 computers to get computer discovery back on.  I then had to figure out how to turn off all of shares and services that MS thinks are needed to be made public on a HomeGroup network connected computer.  (With WIN7, I suspect that they only turned off computer discovery for the Work network configuration and not SMB1 but I could be wrong...)

 

 

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So any answers for the other questions?

Like I said before, I can see the server just fine, but when I try to access it I get a network error (see attached photo).

 

Any suggestions on how to get past this?

dvdprob.jpg

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21 minutes ago, Harblar said:

Like I said before, I can see the server just fine, but when I try to access it I get a network error (see attached photo).

 

 

In the back of my mind, I seem to recall that   DVD    is a reserved name and can not be used for anything else.  

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Unbelievable... I finally got it to work my completely disabling SMB2 and SMB3.

 

Disable/enable SMB2/3

 

Now everything is fine again.... till the next time Microsoft has a bright idea! 

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5 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

With my WIN7 computers, I ended up having  to setting up a 'Home' network connection (rather than a 'Work' network) for the WIN7 computers to get computer discovery back on.  I then had to figure out how to turn off all of shares and services that MS thinks are needed to be made public on a HomeGroup network connected computer.  (With WIN7, I suspect that they only turned off computer discovery for the Work network configuration and not SMB1 but I could be wrong...)

 

Windows 10 has ALSO deprecated Homegroups.  While of no major consequence to Unraid, it also turned off the client side of SMB in network settings and services (see Hoopers post above).  Once I fixed that its actually working better than before.  However, there still remains the issues of how Windows handles SMB sessions.  Good discussion of that in this post: https://lime-technology.com/forums/topic/62227-destination-folder-access-denied/  

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19 minutes ago, Harblar said:

Unbelievable... I finally got it to work my completely disabling SMB2 and SMB3.

 

As I have said many times, SMB networking is more like witchcraft than science.  You just keep trying things, while incanting magic charms, until you find something that works...  

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1 hour ago, Frank1940 said:

 

As I have said many times, SMB networking is more like witchcraft than science.  You just keep trying things, while incanting magic charms, until you find something that works...  

 

Funny you should mention that. My next plan was to sacrifice a live chicken!  lol ;-)

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